CV Joints
#21
09-25-2000, 10:17 PM
DeiselPro,
I like the tires alot. I went to Fun Wheeler Park last weekend and followed all the big dawgs around. They worked just as good as any other tire out there. The only real competition I had was BERT on his Scrambler 500. They do have a shimmy at low speeds. I do not have the rubbing problem. I run different wheels than most people. The fronts have a 2-5 offset where most are 4-3.
I like the tires alot. I went to Fun Wheeler Park last weekend and followed all the big dawgs around. They worked just as good as any other tire out there. The only real competition I had was BERT on his Scrambler 500. They do have a shimmy at low speeds. I do not have the rubbing problem. I run different wheels than most people. The fronts have a 2-5 offset where most are 4-3.
#22
09-25-2000, 10:19 PM
DeiselPro,
I like the tires alot. I went to Fun Wheeler Park last weekend and followed all the big dawgs around. They worked just as good as any other tire out there. The only real competition I had was BERT on his Scrambler 500. They do have a shimmy at low speeds. I do not have the rubbing problem. I run different wheels than most people. The fronts have a 2-5 offset where most are 4-3.
I like the tires alot. I went to Fun Wheeler Park last weekend and followed all the big dawgs around. They worked just as good as any other tire out there. The only real competition I had was BERT on his Scrambler 500. They do have a shimmy at low speeds. I do not have the rubbing problem. I run different wheels than most people. The fronts have a 2-5 offset where most are 4-3.
#23
09-26-2000, 06:10 AM
Cowboy, have you thought about using a stiffer spring on the cat? With all the weight you carry on your rig all the time you are effectively losing the 1-2 inches of travel that it drops while loaded. The stronger springs would put it back to a more stock ride height and keep its normal stability Yes, the lift kit will raise it but will not help to regain the lost travel of your shocks. By putting on a stronger spring you can gain back some of the lost ground clearance and have back the "travel" you lost by loading it heavily.
I know you ride steep terrain and plenty of off camber situations so lifting will take away some stability without gaining back any travel.
Another option is to make (or have made ) spacers for the springs. I did this on my last quad to help offset the weight I carry. I machined 3/8 thick spacers and installed them under the spring. Not as quick as having an adjustable shock but the same result. This option is cheaper than buying new springs and gives a similar result. The only problem with this or stronger springs is if you ride without all your gear the ride will be stiffer. Just be careful with the shocks if you pull them apart and have a good spring compressor on hand. Anyway, just a couple more ideas for you to think about. (and I know you like to think about all the options before you make a move)
Talk to you later .......
I know you ride steep terrain and plenty of off camber situations so lifting will take away some stability without gaining back any travel.
Another option is to make (or have made ) spacers for the springs. I did this on my last quad to help offset the weight I carry. I machined 3/8 thick spacers and installed them under the spring. Not as quick as having an adjustable shock but the same result. This option is cheaper than buying new springs and gives a similar result. The only problem with this or stronger springs is if you ride without all your gear the ride will be stiffer. Just be careful with the shocks if you pull them apart and have a good spring compressor on hand. Anyway, just a couple more ideas for you to think about. (and I know you like to think about all the options before you make a move)
Talk to you later .......
#24
09-26-2000, 09:40 PM
Trailboss:
You're exactly right, I probably spend too much time thinking before I actually get the nerve to do something with the 'Cat, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, just annoying at times.
As for the springs, yes, I'd like to get stiffer springs, but I can't find anybody that makes them for the AC's. I had the dealer order in some for the brand new '01 models, to see if maybe they would hold up a little better, but they are the same thing. They make a snow plows shock/spring setup for the Suzuki's and Polaris, and Polaris even has a new stiffer spring system, but I haven't been able to find anything for the 'Cat, so I'm affraid that option is out. As for the spacers, I took the spring/shock assembly apart, then took that little spacer thing between the shock and the spring, that keeps the shock in place, and stuck it on the bottom of the spring bracket, where it goes around the shock. This was about a 3/4" spacer, that would then give the needed amount of lift, or rise to the front end. The thing I was worried about is with this setup, the spring would then be compressed more than it is now in order to keep the alignment with the top of the shock mount the same. I was also concerned that the shock would then be at full extension with the spring spacer in place, and not be able to expand anymore when the suspension was at full drop. Don't know if that would do any damage or not, but I don't like the idea of having my shocks at full extension all the time.
I suppose if I went with something smaller, like the 3/8" spacer you went with, that would be better, but did that give you enough of a raise? I think the more you compress a spring, the stiffer it gets, so maybe the 3/8" wouldn't be as severe as the 3/4". What did you put spring spacers on for? Make up the difference for weight on the front end, or give a little extra tire clearance? Just curious. Damnit, there I go thinking again!
Well, thanks for the thought. If you happen to know of somebody who makes stiffer springs for the 'Cat, please let me know, I'd definately be interested. Or, if you have any other ideas, I'm alway open to new suggestions.
Thanks again!
Mike
You're exactly right, I probably spend too much time thinking before I actually get the nerve to do something with the 'Cat, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, just annoying at times.
As for the springs, yes, I'd like to get stiffer springs, but I can't find anybody that makes them for the AC's. I had the dealer order in some for the brand new '01 models, to see if maybe they would hold up a little better, but they are the same thing. They make a snow plows shock/spring setup for the Suzuki's and Polaris, and Polaris even has a new stiffer spring system, but I haven't been able to find anything for the 'Cat, so I'm affraid that option is out. As for the spacers, I took the spring/shock assembly apart, then took that little spacer thing between the shock and the spring, that keeps the shock in place, and stuck it on the bottom of the spring bracket, where it goes around the shock. This was about a 3/4" spacer, that would then give the needed amount of lift, or rise to the front end. The thing I was worried about is with this setup, the spring would then be compressed more than it is now in order to keep the alignment with the top of the shock mount the same. I was also concerned that the shock would then be at full extension with the spring spacer in place, and not be able to expand anymore when the suspension was at full drop. Don't know if that would do any damage or not, but I don't like the idea of having my shocks at full extension all the time.
I suppose if I went with something smaller, like the 3/8" spacer you went with, that would be better, but did that give you enough of a raise? I think the more you compress a spring, the stiffer it gets, so maybe the 3/8" wouldn't be as severe as the 3/4". What did you put spring spacers on for? Make up the difference for weight on the front end, or give a little extra tire clearance? Just curious. Damnit, there I go thinking again!
Well, thanks for the thought. If you happen to know of somebody who makes stiffer springs for the 'Cat, please let me know, I'd definately be interested. Or, if you have any other ideas, I'm alway open to new suggestions.
Thanks again!
Mike
#25
09-27-2000, 06:55 AM
If you can send me the spring dimensions and weight ratings from your stock springs I have a source that we could possibly match them up with. Otherwise you could try measuring some of the Polaris springs and see if they have similar dimensions. I know they have different weight rated springs available if the sizes are close.
You are right about springs getting stiffer as they are compressed. ( This is true of variable rate springs)
The easiest way to tell if they are variable rate is to look at the springs and see if the coils are closer together at one end and farther apart on the other. The softer (wider spaced coils) are the first to compress when you add weight then gradually working down the spring to the tighter wound coils as more weight or compression is added. Thats why the spacer works the way it does. It uses up some of the softer part of the spring travel without using up any of the shock travel. By doing this it will take more weight on the machine to compress the spring and shock the same amount. So by adding a 3/8 or 1/2 inch spacer you may gain more than that amount in ride height. At the same time though you do not want to have your spring fully compressed before your shock is fully compressed. If they are not too hard to take off and disassemble I would try shimming the spring and doing a little field testing. Measure your ride height also and see what your gains are. Although I presently have one, the down side of a lift kit is that it changes front end geometry and drive shaft angles causing more stress and wear. On the up side it does not sacrifice ride quality as far as comfort goes but does sacrifice stability. Where as the up side of the spacer is to regain lost shock travel and retain stock ground clearance ( because shocks are not already compressed because of the weight added) The down side of the spacer is a stiffer ride when the weight is not on the machine, but is much the same when loaded. The spacer option worked good for me. I added it just because with all my gear and the weight of my winch and (my own weight was no help either) the additional weight of a plow in the winter, I was losing too much of that precious shock travel.
Both options will accomplish something different, its just a matter of what you want in the end.
LIFT KIT>>>>>>>>More ground clearance, less shock travel (because of the load) or.........
SPRING SPACER>>More ground clearance, more shock travel, slightly stiffer ride.
Let me know if you want to pursue different springs and I will do what I can....
Right now my mind is starting to drift off a little. We are leaving for our annual fall ride for six days of nothin but riding near the Canadian border. Just like heaven.............
Talk to you later........ Trailboss
You are right about springs getting stiffer as they are compressed. ( This is true of variable rate springs)
The easiest way to tell if they are variable rate is to look at the springs and see if the coils are closer together at one end and farther apart on the other. The softer (wider spaced coils) are the first to compress when you add weight then gradually working down the spring to the tighter wound coils as more weight or compression is added. Thats why the spacer works the way it does. It uses up some of the softer part of the spring travel without using up any of the shock travel. By doing this it will take more weight on the machine to compress the spring and shock the same amount. So by adding a 3/8 or 1/2 inch spacer you may gain more than that amount in ride height. At the same time though you do not want to have your spring fully compressed before your shock is fully compressed. If they are not too hard to take off and disassemble I would try shimming the spring and doing a little field testing. Measure your ride height also and see what your gains are. Although I presently have one, the down side of a lift kit is that it changes front end geometry and drive shaft angles causing more stress and wear. On the up side it does not sacrifice ride quality as far as comfort goes but does sacrifice stability. Where as the up side of the spacer is to regain lost shock travel and retain stock ground clearance ( because shocks are not already compressed because of the weight added) The down side of the spacer is a stiffer ride when the weight is not on the machine, but is much the same when loaded. The spacer option worked good for me. I added it just because with all my gear and the weight of my winch and (my own weight was no help either) the additional weight of a plow in the winter, I was losing too much of that precious shock travel.
Both options will accomplish something different, its just a matter of what you want in the end.
LIFT KIT>>>>>>>>More ground clearance, less shock travel (because of the load) or.........
SPRING SPACER>>More ground clearance, more shock travel, slightly stiffer ride.
Let me know if you want to pursue different springs and I will do what I can....
Right now my mind is starting to drift off a little. We are leaving for our annual fall ride for six days of nothin but riding near the Canadian border. Just like heaven.............
Talk to you later........ Trailboss
#26
09-27-2000, 04:16 PM
Trailboss:
Damn, up a little early are we? Hopefully it's because you are leaving for that painfully gruelling 6 day ride up towards Canada. Probably of which will be shear torture having to witness all that beautiful country, and a definate merciless job of having to ride your machines for so long. Man, that must be nice, couldn't think of anything better, hope you have a GREAT time!
I'll check out my springs this weekend, and see if I can get some measurements. I'm not sure how to tell the weight rating though? I'll check the manual, see if it's in there somewhere. As for the spacers, do you have them in both front and back? I'd assume I only need them in the front, since the back is fine. Do you still use your spacers, or remove them because of the lift? I'll assume with the plow setup you still have them in. I run under that heavy load all the time, so there won't be an issue of a stiff ride unloaded, just whatever it does to it from adding them the way it is now. I'll try out both the 3/8" and 1/2" to see what kind of difference it gives, maybe that is all I need. You're right, I don't want to add a lift if I don't have to. Stiffer springs would be nice, so I'll look into it. I really appreciate all the suggestions here, you've been a great help!
Have a great time on your ride!
Mike
Damn, up a little early are we? Hopefully it's because you are leaving for that painfully gruelling 6 day ride up towards Canada. Probably of which will be shear torture having to witness all that beautiful country, and a definate merciless job of having to ride your machines for so long. Man, that must be nice, couldn't think of anything better, hope you have a GREAT time!
I'll check out my springs this weekend, and see if I can get some measurements. I'm not sure how to tell the weight rating though? I'll check the manual, see if it's in there somewhere. As for the spacers, do you have them in both front and back? I'd assume I only need them in the front, since the back is fine. Do you still use your spacers, or remove them because of the lift? I'll assume with the plow setup you still have them in. I run under that heavy load all the time, so there won't be an issue of a stiff ride unloaded, just whatever it does to it from adding them the way it is now. I'll try out both the 3/8" and 1/2" to see what kind of difference it gives, maybe that is all I need. You're right, I don't want to add a lift if I don't have to. Stiffer springs would be nice, so I'll look into it. I really appreciate all the suggestions here, you've been a great help!
Have a great time on your ride!
Mike
#27
10-02-2000, 11:30 PM
What would you charge me to make spacers for my sp500? I have 26" outlaws that are rubbing the extended fenders in the front and I won't install a lift kit. The springs from HL are just too exspensive right now. I don't mind a slightly stiffer ride at all as long as the tires don't rub. E-mail me with any questions. rgharris@maranatha.net Thanks Rick
#28
10-03-2000, 03:07 AM
Screamin4wheeler:
If you've got a pipe and steel place near you, I'd suggest running down there and having them cut you a set of spacers out of aluminum. That would be very light weight, and strong. I had to cut a set myself because all our suppliers are closed on saturdays. I ended up using a pair of shaft collars. They measured 7/8" thick, so I just bought two of them, and cut them in a one-third/two-third sections. That way, according to Trailboss's recommendations, I ended up with two 3/8" spacers, and two 1/2" spacers.
On my 'Cat, the shocks measured 1 1/2" outside diameter, so I found the shaft collars of the same size. Just take the shock/spring assembly apart, pull the spring off, and the spacer between the shock and the spring, then pull the bottom plate off. The spacer will fit on there now, then put back together the same way you took it apart.
I'm sorry to say I ran out of time on saturday, so I didn't get to put mine back on the 'Cat. I'm hoping to get the time this weekend, so if I do, I'll let you know how it works out. Anyway, hope that at least gives you an idea of how to make it work.
Mike
If you've got a pipe and steel place near you, I'd suggest running down there and having them cut you a set of spacers out of aluminum. That would be very light weight, and strong. I had to cut a set myself because all our suppliers are closed on saturdays. I ended up using a pair of shaft collars. They measured 7/8" thick, so I just bought two of them, and cut them in a one-third/two-third sections. That way, according to Trailboss's recommendations, I ended up with two 3/8" spacers, and two 1/2" spacers.
On my 'Cat, the shocks measured 1 1/2" outside diameter, so I found the shaft collars of the same size. Just take the shock/spring assembly apart, pull the spring off, and the spacer between the shock and the spring, then pull the bottom plate off. The spacer will fit on there now, then put back together the same way you took it apart.
I'm sorry to say I ran out of time on saturday, so I didn't get to put mine back on the 'Cat. I'm hoping to get the time this weekend, so if I do, I'll let you know how it works out. Anyway, hope that at least gives you an idea of how to make it work.
Mike
#29
10-03-2000, 03:56 AM
#30
10-06-2000, 11:36 AM
