Ignition Key Fitting Multiple Quads
Aug 10, 2006 | 01:56 AM
#21
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Ignition Key Fitting Multiple Quads
Originally posted by: fanofde4ever
I'm a locksmith, and from looking at my key to my Magnum 330 Polaris uses 5 pins per side of the key, and a minimum of 4 different pin sizes that could be used in each of those positions. That means there are minimum 1016 different keycodes that could be used (that is a bare minimum. If I had multiple keys to compare side to side I could give a better estimate.). Now for this many people to have friends with keys that will start each others ATV's either Polaris is using universal key cylinders that will accept multiple key codes, or the design of their cylinders is not allowing the pins to fall back into the cylinder and lock it once the key is removed. Since key cylinders are basically a universal design I would tend to rule out the latter. And yes you may be able to find a vehicle of the same make that your key will fit in, but it's not like half of the vehicles at every dealership will start with the same key. That's just rediculous to be ok with the fact that I could walk to your house, start up, and steal your ATV just because I happen have one made by the same company. Chaining it is no big deal either. I have a dremel tool with a cutoff wheel that will go though a 5/16 latch on a masterlock in less than 2 minutes, and not make much noise at all.
I'm a locksmith, and from looking at my key to my Magnum 330 Polaris uses 5 pins per side of the key, and a minimum of 4 different pin sizes that could be used in each of those positions. That means there are minimum 1016 different keycodes that could be used (that is a bare minimum. If I had multiple keys to compare side to side I could give a better estimate.). Now for this many people to have friends with keys that will start each others ATV's either Polaris is using universal key cylinders that will accept multiple key codes, or the design of their cylinders is not allowing the pins to fall back into the cylinder and lock it once the key is removed. Since key cylinders are basically a universal design I would tend to rule out the latter. And yes you may be able to find a vehicle of the same make that your key will fit in, but it's not like half of the vehicles at every dealership will start with the same key. That's just rediculous to be ok with the fact that I could walk to your house, start up, and steal your ATV just because I happen have one made by the same company. Chaining it is no big deal either. I have a dremel tool with a cutoff wheel that will go though a 5/16 latch on a masterlock in less than 2 minutes, and not make much noise at all.
I appreciate your response, but please tell us then your opinion on the best security measures. I sell industrial cordless tools that could easily cut through 1/2 spec 8 chain, but your average thief wont have these tools. If they want it, they will stop at almost nothing to get it....especially if they are on dope.
Aug 10, 2006 | 08:44 AM
#22
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Ignition Key Fitting Multiple Quads
Judging from the tone of this thread this will not be a popular opinion but suggesting that Polaris is responsible for theft because they make a limited number of key cuts is BS. Locks only keep honest people from stealing your stuff anyway. I personally have seen Volvos and Fords with the same keys. The other day in a parking lot I pressed the remote unlock on my keychain and heard someone else’s vehicle unlock as well as mine.
Blaming the manufacturer for dishonest people is like screaming “THERE OUGHT TO BE A LAW……..” and expecting the government to fix it every time you come across something you don’t like. That’s why this country has so many dumba$$ laws on the books. For every rule there is an exception. An ignition key WILL NOT keep someone from stealing your quad if they want it.
Blaming the manufacturer for dishonest people is like screaming “THERE OUGHT TO BE A LAW……..” and expecting the government to fix it every time you come across something you don’t like. That’s why this country has so many dumba$$ laws on the books. For every rule there is an exception. An ignition key WILL NOT keep someone from stealing your quad if they want it.
Aug 10, 2006 | 09:16 AM
#23
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Ignition Key Fitting Multiple Quads
Originally posted by: floodrunner
Judging from the tone of this thread this will not be a popular opinion but suggesting that Polaris is responsible for theft because they make a limited number of key cuts is BS. Locks only keep honest people from stealing your stuff anyway. I personally have seen Volvos and Fords with the same keys. The other day in a parking lot I pressed the remote unlock on my keychain and heard someone else’s vehicle unlock as well as mine.
Blaming the manufacturer for dishonest people is like screaming “THERE OUGHT TO BE A LAW……..” and expecting the government to fix it every time you come across something you don’t like. That’s why this country has so many dumba$$ laws on the books. For every rule there is an exception. An ignition key WILL NOT keep someone from stealing your quad if they want it. Go back to bitching about riders without helmets if you really need something to occupy your time. I’m very happy to live in a state that doesn’t require them.
Judging from the tone of this thread this will not be a popular opinion but suggesting that Polaris is responsible for theft because they make a limited number of key cuts is BS. Locks only keep honest people from stealing your stuff anyway. I personally have seen Volvos and Fords with the same keys. The other day in a parking lot I pressed the remote unlock on my keychain and heard someone else’s vehicle unlock as well as mine.
Blaming the manufacturer for dishonest people is like screaming “THERE OUGHT TO BE A LAW……..” and expecting the government to fix it every time you come across something you don’t like. That’s why this country has so many dumba$$ laws on the books. For every rule there is an exception. An ignition key WILL NOT keep someone from stealing your quad if they want it. Go back to bitching about riders without helmets if you really need something to occupy your time. I’m very happy to live in a state that doesn’t require them.
Aug 10, 2006 | 09:38 AM
#25
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Ignition Key Fitting Multiple Quads
Hmmm...Floodrunner you seem cranky today. You do seem to bounce around a bit in your post - you go from blaming the manufacturer for dishonest people to government fixing things and then finish off with helmets. Wow. I don't think anyone else has been able to string those three together for this thread - good on ya man
Anyway I started this thread because I had never heard tell of this problem before and it amazed me that in a community of a couple of hundred people on an island stuck off in the North Atlantic there would be 3 guys with bikes across 3 different model years with 3 keys that would start either bike. Wow...you would figure that the statistical probabilities of that happening are like getting struck by lightning multiple times. But then I learn that this actually is something that a lot of people know about. And yes I do feel that Polaris should bear some liability if someone comes along and steals my bike by using a key from another Polaris bike. But I have never said that they should bear full responsibility because I realize that dishonest people exist and that there are things that I must do to protect what I own. And no I don't think that the government should fix this or that Polaris are responsible for people being dishonest. But I do think that Polaris should rectify this problem. Do like Bombi did with the DESS ignition system on their sleds. Polaris could license that off them like they did with their PERC reverse system which is really just the Bombi RER.
As for the helmet thing...nah, I won't even bother. Its your egg man - crack it if you want.
Anyway I started this thread because I had never heard tell of this problem before and it amazed me that in a community of a couple of hundred people on an island stuck off in the North Atlantic there would be 3 guys with bikes across 3 different model years with 3 keys that would start either bike. Wow...you would figure that the statistical probabilities of that happening are like getting struck by lightning multiple times. But then I learn that this actually is something that a lot of people know about. And yes I do feel that Polaris should bear some liability if someone comes along and steals my bike by using a key from another Polaris bike. But I have never said that they should bear full responsibility because I realize that dishonest people exist and that there are things that I must do to protect what I own. And no I don't think that the government should fix this or that Polaris are responsible for people being dishonest. But I do think that Polaris should rectify this problem. Do like Bombi did with the DESS ignition system on their sleds. Polaris could license that off them like they did with their PERC reverse system which is really just the Bombi RER.
As for the helmet thing...nah, I won't even bother. Its your egg man - crack it if you want.
Aug 10, 2006 | 10:08 AM
#26
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Ignition Key Fitting Multiple Quads
Okay, you got me. I am (was) a little cranky this morning after reading some of the comments on this thread. Frivolous uses of words like “liability” get me that way.
But I responded more to attitudes communicated here than to the topic of the thread. That’s why I edited out the final two sentences of the post, unfortunately just missing the re-posted quote. So while I offer no apology for my opinion I will offer a sincere apology for the antagonistic way it was presented. That was out of line; I’m sorry.
But I responded more to attitudes communicated here than to the topic of the thread. That’s why I edited out the final two sentences of the post, unfortunately just missing the re-posted quote. So while I offer no apology for my opinion I will offer a sincere apology for the antagonistic way it was presented. That was out of line; I’m sorry.
Aug 10, 2006 | 02:48 PM
#28
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Ignition Key Fitting Multiple Quads
The key on atvs and motorcycles is really a transparent measure of security. First, if I understand the previous locksmith's post correctly after @1016 units unique coding is impossible in this application. Second, bypassing the key in current polaris models is simple( we found this out when my friend forgot his quad key one time). Third, I doubt a majority (not all) of atv thefts are accomplished using a key--most are physically rolled and taken by an alternative transportation device ie truck trailer etc. Where I do think Polaris may have a problem (liability) is for those percentage of drive away thefts using a non-specific key if/when an alternative security system like BRP is reasonably available PROVIDED all other reasonable steps were taken by the owner to prevent the theft and the failure to have the alternative system was the prime contributing factor to the theft ie the theft would more likely than not have not occurred if the device was installed. And yes I said it Floodrunner---Liability!!!![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
Aug 10, 2006 | 03:05 PM
#29
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Ignition Key Fitting Multiple Quads
Originally posted by: xler8ion
The key on atvs and motorcycles is really a transparent measure of security. First, if I understand the previous locksmith's post correctly after @1016 units unique coding is impossible in this application. Second, bypassing the key in current polaris models is simple( we found this out when my friend forgot his quad key one time). Third, I doubt a majority (not all) of atv thefts are accomplished using a key--most are physically rolled and taken by an alternative transportation device ie truck trailer etc. Where I do think Polaris may have a problem (liability) is for those percentage of drive away thefts using a non-specific key if/when an alternative security system like BRP is reasonably available PROVIDED all other reasonable steps were taken by the owner to prevent the theft and the failure to have the alternative system was the prime contributing factor to the theft ie the theft would more likely than not have not occurred if the device was installed. And yes I said it Floodrunner---Liability!!!![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
The key on atvs and motorcycles is really a transparent measure of security. First, if I understand the previous locksmith's post correctly after @1016 units unique coding is impossible in this application. Second, bypassing the key in current polaris models is simple( we found this out when my friend forgot his quad key one time). Third, I doubt a majority (not all) of atv thefts are accomplished using a key--most are physically rolled and taken by an alternative transportation device ie truck trailer etc. Where I do think Polaris may have a problem (liability) is for those percentage of drive away thefts using a non-specific key if/when an alternative security system like BRP is reasonably available PROVIDED all other reasonable steps were taken by the owner to prevent the theft and the failure to have the alternative system was the prime contributing factor to the theft ie the theft would more likely than not have not occurred if the device was installed. And yes I said it Floodrunner---Liability!!!![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
