<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: ScramblerXLE

I'd say you're too rich



i couldn't run the blue needle from JD on any clip once it got above 50 degrees, it was fat EVERYWHERE. Also: to have the richer blue needle and a 175 seems REALLY excessive in my experience w/ my 525. I'm at like 900 feet in southern michigan and am currently running the red needle on like the 2nd clip (not sure haven't messed w/ in a while, but that's close) and the 165 main. That produces a very nice brown plug with no lean spots or rich spots anywhere. Mien behaved exactly like you are describind when i had the blue needle and a 168 in it. The shutting off was due to it loading up because of it being to rich. Also: i have done away with the O-ring mod because i operate in tight woods on the michigan XC circuit an most of the time in tight woods, my throttle is between 1/4 and 1/2. Constantly going back and forth in that range yeilds a LOT of pumping for the accelerator pump. In my case this also caused the Outlaw to load up and stall occassionally. Probably due to the fact that unlike the bike, when i am in third in 48" wide woods and give it a slight hit, it may not break loose instantly, i.e. shooting too much fuel for the engine's RPM.



Suggestions:

Goto Red needle and a 165 main. (maybe 168 if your exhaust is heavily modded b/c 165 is PERFECT for me w/ stock exaust and EHS lid) And get rid of the O-ring all together. I know lots of guys love them and for dunes/fields/MX the extra response is great, but they're no good for XC and NOT good for Hatfield Mccoy if that place is anything other than wide open all the time (and i'm told it can get pretty tight) do these things and let me know how it works out. Also, the Valve adjustment is important but if there's not lots of valve noise it's probably not at fault. I'm of the opinion that you're VERY rich.



Good luck, hope this helps, i'll try to look for a reply tonight before i goto work (i work third) and i'll try to help again if you need more info</end quote></div>

Thank you scramblerXLE, this is how you help someone with jetting. Good informative post with settings and information to back up why the settings are what they are. I'm not sure why I put the blue needle in I thought thats what the insturctions said but I could have been thinking the bike was going to want fuel like a banshee since I modifed the lid.

To the guy who posted that yamaha is slow, bro my banshee will rape the outlaw.

Just don't know why the wideband is showing 14:1 if my main is too big. Well anyway I'm going to take your advice scrambler and set up this way then see how it runs and put the wideband on it again just to see what I get. I'll bet my readings were off for some reason. I only made two pulls. This bike reves 10k + rpms which surprised me.

And yes hatfield is def tight woods on most of it. Can't wait to ride this bike on the trials, no more getting stuck with the banshee. I'm brining it as well for the hillclimbs. I will be nice to have a clean bike to run up and down the crazy hills out there.

I cut the exhaust open and modified it to be basically strait through, welded it closed with only one mild baffle in there. It's really not much louder than stock either. Def not as loud as an aftermarket exhaust, I really am not a big fan of aftermarket exhaust. Toooooo loooouuuuuddddd..

Just to respond to some of the guys saying "you changed all this stuff ect" Look, I have yet to buy an ATV and this is my 5th that was tuned properly from the factory. So I don't expect a bike to run perfect off the showroom floor. If you think it should I have news for you, there is no way an ATV company can anticipate what the riding conditions are going to be for every ATV they make... PLUS the EPA is on their asses to show clean numbers, with that said, you have to know that every ATV is going to come as lean as they can get it from the factory.

I'm also relatively lazy, so I'm not going to spend my time tuning a stock bike just to take it all back apart and make changes, so when I get a new ATV, I go ahead and make the modifications to the airbox and exhaust and just start from there. I will get it right, it just takes a little trial an error. If your going to get the most power out of your quad taking it to the dealer is NOT the solution. The good news is once you get it tuned in.......it's done. And you learn how the bike responds to different jetting you get alot faster. I can tune a banshee in half an hour with no wideband.

 

Agreed on the Banshee potential......and also jetting your ride for peak performance. I always tune my rides from the factory as well.....there is always performance left on the table from the factory. An atv does'nt have to run at peak performance, but yea I guess I am a stickler on the engine at least running through the rpm range upon purchase.
Make sure and air your tires up to at least 5.5-6 lbs of air pressure and you should'nt have any trouble with flats on the H/M trails. Take something to bend your rear skid back into place as well.

 

No need for a rear skid on the Outlaw IRS. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Remember stock main is a 148. Like I said on the other thread, I also think you are way rich. I think most of us that have posted our jetting are now at a 165 to 168 main in the summer and 168 to 170 main in the winter. To my knowledge none of us are now running the blue needle. Several started with the blue needle but had symptoms exactly like you are describing. Red needle is the ticket in the 5th or 4th clip down.

I am going to disagree with Scrambler XLE on the o-ring though. I would go with the big o-ring, or at least the small o-ring. (I know first time we have not agreed on something LOL!) The o-rings shorten the time of the accelerator pump spray resulting in less fuel, not more. James Dean and many others feel the stock spray is too long, therefore bogging it down with too much fuel when punching the throttle. That is also why some of the bike riders go with the Honda diaghram. It is not necessary on the quads to change out the diaghram though since according to Polaris engineers they use a different diaghram. The big o-ring does not allow the accelerator pump to lag behind the throttle as much therefore resulting in a shorter spray before the vacuum of the engine kicks in. I would at least run the small o-ring, because it will eliminate that slight hesitation when stabbing the throttle, when you really want to take off.

 

I have never been locked in a bathroom stall , however they usually use those tamper proof screws on those things .

I don't think I could wrench myself out of one .

Case closed .

Rick Ritter

 

"My banshee will rape your outlaw"....If I had a dollar for everyone that said that to me, Id be rich. Everyone thinks thier banshees are bad ***. Then again if I had a dollar for every Banshee thats eaten my roost, Id be rich too. Not trying to start trouble, but everyone with a Banshee has a mouth. Come race my buddies Bombusa with a GSX1300R Hayabusa in it, then you can talk.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Evasiveone

No need for a rear skid on the Outlaw IRS. [img][/img]</end quote></div>

LOL.....good catch....I stand corrected.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: RickRitter

I have never been locked in a bathroom stall , however they usually use those tamper proof screws on those things .



I don't think I could wrench myself out of one .



Case closed .



Rick Ritter</end quote></div>

It's no fun being a grown man locked in a bathroom stall. 20 seconds of terror I (cough) hear. I do tend to get ticked when my 5yo needs his independence and has to lock himself in and take 5 minutes to get out. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: gablett

"My banshee will rape your outlaw"....If I had a dollar for everyone that said that to me, Id be rich. Everyone thinks thier banshees are bad ***. Then again if I had a dollar for every Banshee thats eaten my roost, Id be rich too. Not trying to start trouble, but everyone with a Banshee has a mouth. Come race my buddies Bombusa with a GSX1300R Hayabusa in it, then you can talk.</end quote></div>

I used to be one of those guys that thought I could just spend more money and maybe run with modified banshees. By modified I don't mean a set of pipes and a little more timing though. The only way to compare a modified Banshee to a (insert your ultra fast quad here) is to match dollar for dollar. Nah....thats still very lopsided....spend 10K on your 525 and a Banshee owner can spend less than 5K on his and still easily have twice the horsepower. Your buddies Bombusa did'nt come with a Busa engine in it....so it does not count.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

 

Well lets see since a 2 stroke has half the moving parts as a 4 stroke, obviously modding it will cost less. And hp is just tourque at an RPM. Lets hook your banshee with 10k worth of mods to the back of any outlaw and see what happens. But thats why top fuel dragsters, monster trucks, Funny Cars, need I go on are 2 stroke right? Oh wait...[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: gablett

Well lets see since a 2 stroke has half the moving parts as a 4 stroke, obviously modding it will cost less. And hp is just tourque at an RPM. Lets hook your banshee with 10k worth of mods to the back of any outlaw and see what happens. But thats why top fuel dragsters, monster trucks, Funny Cars, need I go on are 2 stroke right? Oh wait...[IMG][/IMG]</end quote></div>

1. Agreed on less moving parts being cheaper. But a 2 stroke and especially a twin cylinder 'shee that is making 4-5 less horsepwer in mild stock trim to your much more aggressively tuned "stock" 525 has a ton more potential when one considering ultimate power. This is straightforward and I should'nt even have to explain the breakdown.
2. You are close, Hp is a another form of torque. Everything revolves around torque and what kind of torque you intend to make at a given RPM. Make your torque down low and you will sacrifice torque up high and vise-versa.
3. Do you honestly think you are gonna pull away at a low rpm from a Banshee turning 10K rpm's....or are you gonna pull out wide open at 9-10K rpm's yourself? How much torque do you think your 525 is making at 10K rpm's? You should know this answer since you are already convinced your 525 would be the victor....right?
4. All of your "racing type automobile" examples are tuned for high rpm and maximum power at high rpm's, so your examples do not help your arguement one bit. A little more research into torque and you will find torque is measured the same for 2 and 4 strokes and the state of tune dictates where torque will or will not be made.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img] Wax on wax off grasshopper.