JohnnyB said,

"Third, I would like to address Tree Farmers question about where I got my info. about current draw on
the two winches. As you suspected, I guessed. No excuses here, I was WRONG (and for this I
apologize). I made an assumption that the Warn winch with its 8 gauge wiring would draw less
current than the Superwinch with its 10 gauge wiring."

Actually, JohnnyB, 8 gauge wire is larger than 10 gauge wire; therefore, 8 gauge is capable or carrying more current than 10 gauge. Regardless, I respect your integrity correctly identifying the source of your information; no apology is necessary.

"There are several other factors that I neglected
to take into consideration, like motor size and gear reduction). I do believe that both companies to
thier MOTOR CURRENT TESTING (not real world testing) in a test lab, in ideal conditions with winch
mounted in a fixture. Therefor the specifications should be taken with a grain-of-salt."

Given the parameters measured, line pull force and motor current, I cannot easily envision any significant variations in the data expected between laboratory and field ("real world") testing.

"I believe that the Warn winch is a better winch for the following reasons.
1) The geartrain on the Warn is a 3-stage planetary (which is the system used in most heavy-duty
winches). I believe that the Superwinch uses a 2-stage split ring gear ring gear (it might be a single
stage reduction)."

The geartrain in the SuperWinch ATV2000 actually uses a differential planetary drive, not unlike that in the Warn A2000 in functional classification.

Further, your statement, "most" heavy-duty winches use a planetary drive, requires some qualification; for pure brute strength and sure braking power, worm gear drive winches are often used (e.g., Ramsey RM-12 12,000 # winch).

"Superwinch probably uses this geartrain because it is inexpensive to manufacture.
The drawback to less design is that it is impossible to develop a gear tooth involute (profile) for type
of geartrain. This system developes its own gear tooth profile as it wears in. Physics is physics,
when the gear pitch changes the pitch circle must also change."

If SuperWinch DOESN'T use this geartrain, your points seem moot. While I am unfamiliar with the innards of my SuperWinch, I do know this much (fact, not opinion): My SuperWinch ATV1500 has been in continuous service since 1978; the winch has never failed me; SuperWinch has always provided responsive and effective support. Therefore, I plan on keeping the SuperWinch, regardless of the economics of its manufacture, the design choices made in its creation, or whether or not the gear teeth are forming their own profile as they wear in without my knowledge or consent. As long as the winch pulls, I shan't begrudge any changes it chooses to make in its gear pitch or pitch circle. Perhaps making a gear tooth profile is impossible, as you say; however, my SuperWinch seems unaware of this limitation and pulls right along.

"2) Warn has a faster line speed. 4.9 ft/min faster at 2000 lbs. and 10 ft/min faster at 0.0 lbs."

You've got a point here! If your figures are correct, a SuperWinch would take about 4 minutes to reel in 50 feet of slack cable; the Warn could do it in two minutes and change. Big difference; however, seldom is an entire spool extended and retrieved.

"3) Warn has 3/16 dia wire rope with a breaking strength of 4200 lbs. Superwinch has 5/32 dia wire
rope with only 2800 lbs breaking strength"

Since the SuperWinch rated stall load is 2,300 pounds, seems like a 2800 # cable might be adequate.

"4) Warn has a 0.9 Hp motor, Superwinch only has a 0.45 Hp motor"

Perhaps so; however, the cable is ignorant of the motor's horsepower; rather, the pulling force remains critical.

"5) Warn has 4 mounting holes, Superwinch has only 2."

Two appropriately-stressed bolts adequately anchor the SuperWinch; if, say, six mounting holes were drilled in the base plate, would SuperWinch achieve superiority in this criterion?

"6) Can add a remote switch to Warn, cannot to Superwinch"

Actually, SuperWinch Part # 1515A, Handheld Remote Switch and Solenoid Kit will fit the ATV2000; however, the current rocker switch is adequate for this product's current. By the way, the SuperWinch rocker switch adequately handles the 118 amps drawn by the new SuperWinch elctric motors at 2000 # line pull; however, the switch is not rated to carry the 145 amps of the Warn A2000 at this same load.

"7) Can add a axuilary brake to Warn, cannot to Superwinch."

The current SuperWinch ATV2000 in fact comes equipped with an internal spring brake standard (listen up, you snow plowers!). The T1500 may be upgraded, adding an internal spring brake with Part # 87-22541-01 at a price of $ 22.00. The SuperWinches also features both dynamic and friction braking.

"8) All the OEM's (except Suzuki) have chosen Warn as thier supplier not Superwinch"

I believe Kawaski catalogs SuperWinch products, as well as Warn's, as OEM accessories. Thus, Warn is not endorsed as exclusively as you suggest.

"Superwinch is less expensive and weighs 10 lbs. less, but in my opinion these are its only
advantages."

What, exactly, is the dollar difference between the SuperWinch ATV2000 and the Warn A2000? Suzuki is now running a special, a SuperWinch 2000 # X1S for $ 49.95 (when purchased with new quad!).

"I believe that for the reasons I have stated above, that the Warn A2000 is a better winch than the
Superwinch ATV2000. But then again there is that whole pride in ownership thing."

Good! I hope you and your Warn winch live happily ever after! I would never tell you, "You should have bought a SuperWinch!"


"Lastly I would like to address Tree Farmer's advice to install a "Fusible Link" as a possible solution
to Shadow's concern about "Ability to turn the power off to the switch until I need it." The definition of
a fusible link is as follows; electrical circuit protection device . An electrical conducting material in
placed in series between the load and the power supply. In the event of a short circuit the material
melts, opening the circuit, preventing damage to the circuit or its components. A fusible link in no
way addresses Shadow's concerns."

When the fuzible link is removed from its holder, the winch circuit is disabled. I suggested the fuzible link as an alternative to a manual switch or ignition-switch-contolled solenoid relay, not in its typical role as an overload protection device (overload protection would be redundant; the Shortstop is a thermally-actuated circuit breaker). I apologize for not clarifying the procedure I had in mind. Further, I concede my suggestion is a clumsy and inelegant approach to Shadow's concern.

"I believe a better solution is to install a solenoid in the circuit,
this way the switch only receives power once the key is turned on."

The winch can be operated at any time; that's why I recommended a fuzible link whose removal would disconnect the winch circuit from the battery, assuming a fuzible link cheaper and simpler than a solenoid. In my own usage, I have no problem with the winch enabled at all times; the Shortstop disconnects voltage to the operating switch hot wire when the operating switch is in the "off" position, precluding damage from short-circuits.

Closing (about time! sorry.), I believe Warn winches are worthy of your affection; I'm glad you enjoy yours. I find both Warn and SuperWinch manufacture products of value; also, both manufacturers have been responsive and helpful when I've requested information or service.

Again, I appreciate your offering an apology for posting your previous "guess," although none is necessary because no offense was taken. Many posters publish "guesses;" far, far fewer admit this and take responsibility. I look forward to more of your posts, JohnnyB!

Yr obt svt,

Tree Farmer




[This message has been edited by Tree Farmer (edited 11-24-1999).]

 

Are most, or all ATV size winch motors "permanent" magnet motors? They are not series wound like the bigger truck winches are they? IF that is correct, why is that? Is it to keep cost down? Size and weight down? And, is current draw lower for this type of motor?
Thanks

 

Most ATV-size winches use permanent-magnet electric motors; however, I don't know why this design choice was made.

I imagine on a theoretical basis a permanent-magnet motor draws less current for work output than a series-wound motor, because no power is used creating a magnetic field. However, the antagonistic forces between field and armature windings on a series-wound motor may produce more efficiency.

Good question!

Tree Farmer

 

Tree Farmer, Are you as smart in person as you seem to be on these forums? LOL

 

Hello:

I had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Tree Farmer (a/k/a/ the famous Jim Cowgill) at last year's Cochranton Poker Run. He is a nice guy and knows a lot of sh*t. He seemed a little quiet, but maybe that's cause we were 12 strangers eating dinner together! But hey, ATV guys are all friends right?
Hey Jim, remember those ribbons you tied on all of our ATVs? They were covered in mud within 30 seconds, but it was a good idea in theory...

Bob P.

 

I believe that one thing we can all agree on is, any winch that pulls you out of a bad situation is the best winch in the world!

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone.

Hopefully we get a chance to hit the trails this holiday weekend, and that is something to be truely greatful for.

John

 

I agree JohnnyB.
Happy Thanksgiving to you, and everyone else.
Kirk