Why buy American
Jun 22, 2005 | 06:06 PM
#181
Pro Rider
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,700
Likes: 0
Why buy American
The suggestion that we can prosper domestically by becoming "more global" is a simple generalization that has little meaning in this discussion. When you define "more global" as increasing exports, then it is good. When you define "more global" as meaning increasing imports, then it is not good. More imports imply sending more money off-shore which only increases the trade deficit. Clearly a bad idea from any American's perspective.
The thought that we can simply change jobs in midstream with little impact on the average worker simply ignores the reality of such a change. That is the retraining and loss of wages during that time. Clearly this is a macroscopic view of our economy that only the generalist will hold on to.
Clearly any loss of skilled trade jobs in the US to other countries is not a step in the right direction. There are too many Americans that are not "into" high tech jobs that require college education. Instead, these talented individuals will be forced into the small business sector which has lower pay and less benefits.
Currently, 67% of high school graduates enter college. What about the other 43% of our high school graduates? These people also deserve a quality job with good benefits. The suggestion that these people should go to school and get high tech jobs, once again ignores reality. In the past, these people could get skilled trades jobs. However, without a strong domestic manufacturing base, these jobs will no longer exist. And these people will be lost in lower paying, less benefits jobs. Seems that some people think these people should just work at Mcdonalds for $10 per hour and raise families on that wage. That is bordering on ludicrous. Now, if we have this huge pool of workers with less benefits needs health care, who is going to pay their medical bills? Eventually, we will all pay someway or another.
The most reasonable way to support this skilled trades worker and provide him benefits is by supporting their industries. Currently, one of the largest of these industries is the Auto workers and the first and second tier suppliers.
Then there are some people that think that wages and benefits are not being reduced. LOL, they do not know the auto industry at all. Medical benefits are slowly eroding away for all workers even remotely associated with the domestic auto industry. The suggestion that this is propaganda is down right irresponsible. Clearly, a sign that these people are totally disconnected from what is going on in the real world.
Who owns corporations? The people that own the stock. Not the guy that works at McDonalds. Not the guy that works for small business. The suggestion that all Americans own corporations is very misleading. They guy that is scraping by to support his wife and kids has no chance to buy into these stocks unless he is in a reasonable paying job for a big corporation that provides these benefits. However, some people think that these people are too over paid to receive such benefits. Hopefully, such people will never be in charge of the purse strings at these companies. Or if they are, we pray that there will be a group of people like the UAW to support the workers.
The thought that we can simply change jobs in midstream with little impact on the average worker simply ignores the reality of such a change. That is the retraining and loss of wages during that time. Clearly this is a macroscopic view of our economy that only the generalist will hold on to.
Clearly any loss of skilled trade jobs in the US to other countries is not a step in the right direction. There are too many Americans that are not "into" high tech jobs that require college education. Instead, these talented individuals will be forced into the small business sector which has lower pay and less benefits.
Currently, 67% of high school graduates enter college. What about the other 43% of our high school graduates? These people also deserve a quality job with good benefits. The suggestion that these people should go to school and get high tech jobs, once again ignores reality. In the past, these people could get skilled trades jobs. However, without a strong domestic manufacturing base, these jobs will no longer exist. And these people will be lost in lower paying, less benefits jobs. Seems that some people think these people should just work at Mcdonalds for $10 per hour and raise families on that wage. That is bordering on ludicrous. Now, if we have this huge pool of workers with less benefits needs health care, who is going to pay their medical bills? Eventually, we will all pay someway or another.
The most reasonable way to support this skilled trades worker and provide him benefits is by supporting their industries. Currently, one of the largest of these industries is the Auto workers and the first and second tier suppliers.
Then there are some people that think that wages and benefits are not being reduced. LOL, they do not know the auto industry at all. Medical benefits are slowly eroding away for all workers even remotely associated with the domestic auto industry. The suggestion that this is propaganda is down right irresponsible. Clearly, a sign that these people are totally disconnected from what is going on in the real world.
Who owns corporations? The people that own the stock. Not the guy that works at McDonalds. Not the guy that works for small business. The suggestion that all Americans own corporations is very misleading. They guy that is scraping by to support his wife and kids has no chance to buy into these stocks unless he is in a reasonable paying job for a big corporation that provides these benefits. However, some people think that these people are too over paid to receive such benefits. Hopefully, such people will never be in charge of the purse strings at these companies. Or if they are, we pray that there will be a group of people like the UAW to support the workers.
Jun 22, 2005 | 09:08 PM
#182
Pro Rider
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 298
Likes: 0
Why buy American
Originally posted by: BryceGTX
The suggestion that we can prosper domestically by becoming "more global" is a simple generalization that has little meaning in this discussion. When you define "more global" as increasing exports, then it is good. When you define "more global" as meaning increasing imports, then it is not good. More imports imply sending more money off-shore which only increases the trade deficit. Clearly a bad idea from any American's perspective.
Obviously there needs to be more balance. No one is arguing that. However, the only way we can REALISTICALLY affect the balance is to sell more globally which increases American job security and the economy. As shown numerous times in this forum, there are many products that you can't even get from American companies. There are some "imports" that have more American content than some domestics. So, you are the kettle calling the pot black when you say that any argument other than yours is a simplistic view. It is, in fact, the other way around.
The thought that we can simply change jobs in midstream with little impact on the average worker simply ignores the reality of such a change. That is the retraining and loss of wages during that time. Clearly this is a macroscopic view of our economy that only the generalist will hold on to.
What do you think will have to happen to the 25k workers GM is laying off? Sometimes, people have to reorganize and change directions. I know many that have. I have also had to make major changes. I refuse to believe that people, in general, can't adapt and overcome. It happens all the time. Our people are much more resilient than you give them credit for.
Clearly any loss of skilled trade jobs in the US to other countries is not a step in the right direction. There are too many Americans that are not "into" high tech jobs that require college education. Instead, these talented individuals will be forced into the small business sector which has lower pay and less benefits.
Life is tough for some people that may be used to getting over paid for a job. But for many, they will land other good jobs with similar pay and benefits.
Currently, 67% of high school graduates enter college. What about the other 43% of our high school graduates? These people also deserve a quality job with good benefits. The suggestion that these people should go to school and get high tech jobs, once again ignores reality. In the past, these people could get skilled trades jobs. However, without a strong domestic manufacturing base, these jobs will no longer exist. And these people will be lost in lower paying, less benefits jobs. Seems that some people think these people should just work at Mcdonalds for $10 per hour and raise families on that wage. That is bordering on ludicrous. Now, if we have this huge pool of workers with less benefits needs health care, who is going to pay their medical bills? Eventually, we will all pay someway or another.
Of all your responses, this one is the most absurd. I guess this is what you have to fall back on when losing an argument. No one expects people to work at McDonalds to support a family. If they do, that is by choice. Can you not understand that EVERYTHING is relative? If companies pay higher wages when they are not warranted, their prices go up and the number of employees go down. This puts the workers in a cycle where they pay more for goods (inflation). I am sorry that you fall into the media's propoganda and believe that only low wage jobs replace factory jobs. It may be true in pockets of the country where manufacturing is the only industry to speak of. But, in the country as a whole, it isn't true.
The most reasonable way to support this skilled trades worker and provide him benefits is by supporting their industries. Currently, one of the largest of these industries is the Auto workers and the first and second tier suppliers.
Yea...Skilled trade workers in the US work for many companies including Toyat, Honda, and Nissan. Of course, you have a problem supporting those workers.
Then there are some people that think that wages and benefits are not being reduced. LOL, they do not know the auto industry at all. Medical benefits are slowly eroding away for all workers even remotely associated with the domestic auto industry. The suggestion that this is propaganda is down right irresponsible. Clearly, a sign that these people are totally disconnected from what is going on in the real world.
They aren't being reduced...Costs are going up. Companies can't keep up without losing money. Of course, we all know what happens when companies lose money. We (people that understand the dynamics) aren't disconnected. We are simply aware of more than our small world.
Who owns corporations? The people that own the stock. Not the guy that works at McDonalds. Not the guy that works for small business. The suggestion that all Americans own corporations is very misleading. They guy that is scraping by to support his wife and kids has no chance to buy into these stocks unless he is in a reasonable paying job for a big corporation that provides these benefits. However, some people think that these people are too over paid to receive such benefits. Hopefully, such people will never be in charge of the purse strings at these companies. Or if they are, we pray that there will be a group of people like the UAW to support the workers.
The suggestion that we can prosper domestically by becoming "more global" is a simple generalization that has little meaning in this discussion. When you define "more global" as increasing exports, then it is good. When you define "more global" as meaning increasing imports, then it is not good. More imports imply sending more money off-shore which only increases the trade deficit. Clearly a bad idea from any American's perspective.
Obviously there needs to be more balance. No one is arguing that. However, the only way we can REALISTICALLY affect the balance is to sell more globally which increases American job security and the economy. As shown numerous times in this forum, there are many products that you can't even get from American companies. There are some "imports" that have more American content than some domestics. So, you are the kettle calling the pot black when you say that any argument other than yours is a simplistic view. It is, in fact, the other way around.
The thought that we can simply change jobs in midstream with little impact on the average worker simply ignores the reality of such a change. That is the retraining and loss of wages during that time. Clearly this is a macroscopic view of our economy that only the generalist will hold on to.
What do you think will have to happen to the 25k workers GM is laying off? Sometimes, people have to reorganize and change directions. I know many that have. I have also had to make major changes. I refuse to believe that people, in general, can't adapt and overcome. It happens all the time. Our people are much more resilient than you give them credit for.
Clearly any loss of skilled trade jobs in the US to other countries is not a step in the right direction. There are too many Americans that are not "into" high tech jobs that require college education. Instead, these talented individuals will be forced into the small business sector which has lower pay and less benefits.
Life is tough for some people that may be used to getting over paid for a job. But for many, they will land other good jobs with similar pay and benefits.
Currently, 67% of high school graduates enter college. What about the other 43% of our high school graduates? These people also deserve a quality job with good benefits. The suggestion that these people should go to school and get high tech jobs, once again ignores reality. In the past, these people could get skilled trades jobs. However, without a strong domestic manufacturing base, these jobs will no longer exist. And these people will be lost in lower paying, less benefits jobs. Seems that some people think these people should just work at Mcdonalds for $10 per hour and raise families on that wage. That is bordering on ludicrous. Now, if we have this huge pool of workers with less benefits needs health care, who is going to pay their medical bills? Eventually, we will all pay someway or another.
Of all your responses, this one is the most absurd. I guess this is what you have to fall back on when losing an argument. No one expects people to work at McDonalds to support a family. If they do, that is by choice. Can you not understand that EVERYTHING is relative? If companies pay higher wages when they are not warranted, their prices go up and the number of employees go down. This puts the workers in a cycle where they pay more for goods (inflation). I am sorry that you fall into the media's propoganda and believe that only low wage jobs replace factory jobs. It may be true in pockets of the country where manufacturing is the only industry to speak of. But, in the country as a whole, it isn't true.
The most reasonable way to support this skilled trades worker and provide him benefits is by supporting their industries. Currently, one of the largest of these industries is the Auto workers and the first and second tier suppliers.
Yea...Skilled trade workers in the US work for many companies including Toyat, Honda, and Nissan. Of course, you have a problem supporting those workers.
Then there are some people that think that wages and benefits are not being reduced. LOL, they do not know the auto industry at all. Medical benefits are slowly eroding away for all workers even remotely associated with the domestic auto industry. The suggestion that this is propaganda is down right irresponsible. Clearly, a sign that these people are totally disconnected from what is going on in the real world.
They aren't being reduced...Costs are going up. Companies can't keep up without losing money. Of course, we all know what happens when companies lose money. We (people that understand the dynamics) aren't disconnected. We are simply aware of more than our small world.
Who owns corporations? The people that own the stock. Not the guy that works at McDonalds. Not the guy that works for small business. The suggestion that all Americans own corporations is very misleading. They guy that is scraping by to support his wife and kids has no chance to buy into these stocks unless he is in a reasonable paying job for a big corporation that provides these benefits. However, some people think that these people are too over paid to receive such benefits. Hopefully, such people will never be in charge of the purse strings at these companies. Or if they are, we pray that there will be a group of people like the UAW to support the workers.
I really don't think you even understand a capitalistic society. Based on your comments, it is very apparent that you don't believe in it.
Jun 22, 2005 | 10:17 PM
#183
Pro Rider
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 563
Likes: 0
Why buy American
All,
I am done posting here, although I'll continue to read this thread. I must say it's been very informative. You all make very good points. I don't know what more can be said? I think BryceGTX is busy for the next few days so I don't think we'll be hearing from him for awhile.
You guys agree we need to have FREE Trade - this is a good thing.
We all have different life experiences (and information) that have put us at odds here, and my experiences cause me to buy American whenever I can.
It will be interesting to ask this question again 10 years from now. Who knows, maybe we'll think different then?
Until then, good luck to you all.
I am done posting here, although I'll continue to read this thread. I must say it's been very informative. You all make very good points. I don't know what more can be said? I think BryceGTX is busy for the next few days so I don't think we'll be hearing from him for awhile.
You guys agree we need to have FREE Trade - this is a good thing.
We all have different life experiences (and information) that have put us at odds here, and my experiences cause me to buy American whenever I can.
It will be interesting to ask this question again 10 years from now. Who knows, maybe we'll think different then?
Until then, good luck to you all.
Jun 22, 2005 | 11:25 PM
#184
Pro Rider
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,700
Likes: 0
Why buy American
Hey Lukester, thanks for the heads up to the others. LOL, seems the bagel is packed and we will leave tomorrow [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
The suggestion that we can prosper domestically by becoming "more global" is a simple generalization that has little meaning in this discussion. When you define "more global" as increasing exports, then it is good. When you define "more global" as meaning increasing imports, then it is not good. More imports imply sending more money off-shore which only increases the trade deficit. Clearly a bad idea from any American's perspective.
Obviously there needs to be more balance. No one is arguing that. However, the only way we can REALISTICALLY affect the balance is to sell more globally which increases American job security and the economy. As shown numerous times in this forum, there are many products that you can't even get from American companies. There are some "imports" that have more American content than some domestics. So, you are the kettle calling the pot black when you say that any argument other than yours is a simplistic view. It is, in fact, the other way around.
Hey 05PRED500.. I can't argue with that.. it what I have been saying al along LOL, glad you agree with my viewpoint. And as I have said in previous posts, I realize that there are things that we can only buy from off shore companies.
The thought that we can simply change jobs in midstream with little impact on the average worker simply ignores the reality of such a change. That is the retraining and loss of wages during that time. Clearly this is a macroscopic view of our economy that only the generalist will hold on to.
What do you think will have to happen to the 25k workers GM is laying off? Sometimes, people have to reorganize and change directions. I know many that have. I have also had to make major changes. I refuse to believe that people, in general, can't adapt and overcome. It happens all the time. Our people are much more resilient than you give them credit for.
Maybe you need to read the papers more often. GM is laying off because of decreased market share due to people buying off-shore cars. This is exactly why we are arguing about!! It is what happens when "lean techniques" are implemented. It is exactly what happens when people like you buy Honda and Nissan.
Clearly any loss of skilled trade jobs in the US to other countries is not a step in the right direction. There are too many Americans that are not "into" high tech jobs that require college education. Instead, these talented individuals will be forced into the small business sector which has lower pay and less benefits.
Life is tough for some people that may be used to getting over paid for a job. But for many, they will land other good jobs with similar pay and benefits.
This is where we disagree dramtically, it is your opinion that these people should be paid as poorly as your employees!! I don't feel that is the solution!!
Currently, 67% of high school graduates enter college. What about the other 43% of our high school graduates? These people also deserve a quality job with good benefits. The suggestion that these people should go to school and get high tech jobs, once again ignores reality. In the past, these people could get skilled trades jobs. However, without a strong domestic manufacturing base, these jobs will no longer exist. And these people will be lost in lower paying, less benefits jobs. Seems that some people think these people should just work at Mcdonalds for $10 per hour and raise families on that wage. That is bordering on ludicrous. Now, if we have this huge pool of workers with less benefits needs health care, who is going to pay their medical bills? Eventually, we will all pay someway or another.
Of all your responses, this one is the most absurd. I guess this is what you have to fall back on when losing an argument. No one expects people to work at McDonalds to support a family. If they do, that is by choice. Can you not understand that EVERYTHING is relative? If companies pay higher wages when they are not warranted, their prices go up and the number of employees go down. This puts the workers in a cycle where they pay more for goods (inflation). I am sorry that you fall into the media's propoganda and believe that only low wage jobs replace factory jobs. It may be true in pockets of the country where manufacturing is the only industry to speak of. But, in the country as a whole, it isn't true.
You were the one that suggested that Macdonalds was so great because you can make $10 per hour. LOL, again the economic analysis applied in a broad application accross the world with little reguard to real people. And a new twist: the media in a conspiracy forcing propaganda throughout America on all of us unsuspecting morons. Thanks for pointing that out to me!!
The most reasonable way to support this skilled trades worker and provide him benefits is by supporting their industries. Currently, one of the largest of these industries is the Auto workers and the first and second tier suppliers.
Yea...Skilled trade workers in the US work for many companies including Toyat, Honda, and Nissan. Of course, you have a problem supporting those workers.
I am sorry that you believe that the way to support the US economy and it workers is to buy from Honda and Nissan. Fortunately, 80% of us Americans don't agree with you.
Then there are some people that think that wages and benefits are not being reduced. LOL, they do not know the auto industry at all. Medical benefits are slowly eroding away for all workers even remotely associated with the domestic auto industry. The suggestion that this is propaganda is down right irresponsible. Clearly, a sign that these people are totally disconnected from what is going on in the real world.
They aren't being reduced...Costs are going up. Companies can't keep up without losing money. Of course, we all know what happens when companies lose money. We (people that understand the dynamics) aren't disconnected. We are simply aware of more than our small world.
You are disconnected because you do not understand the manufacturing sector. Seems that I have had at least the education that you have had, yet I am at odds with you on most every point. My experience is much closer to the automotive industry and your experience is in the retail industry. Furthermore, your insistance that buying Nissan and Honda is good for the US economy is not logical. You cannot argue from a competative viewpoint, because GM competes with these companies on a global scale, so any lessons learned in this competition in a foreign contry will be applied globally and in the US. You cannot argue from a monetary standpoint because buying off-shore products automatically send more dollars overseas. You cannot argue from a durablity, reliability or quality standpoint because these vehicles are so close in all categories. Fact is, you are just simply justifying your purchase. That is fine, just don't feed us all this other BS.
Who owns corporations? The people that own the stock. Not the guy that works at McDonalds. Not the guy that works for small business. The suggestion that all Americans own corporations is very misleading. They guy that is scraping by to support his wife and kids has no chance to buy into these stocks unless he is in a reasonable paying job for a big corporation that provides these benefits. However, some people think that these people are too over paid to receive such benefits. Hopefully, such people will never be in charge of the purse strings at these companies. Or if they are, we pray that there will be a group of people like the UAW to support the workers.
Wrong!! Actually, you couldn't be more wrong. People of all walks of life own stocks and mutual funds. Are you aware that McDonald's has a matching 401k? Are you aware that many small businesses have various forms of retirement programs such as a SEP like mine? You must be completely lost in your world, or at the very least oblivious to other industry. Are you even aware of what constitutes a small business. Some people think companies are in business to employ rather than to make a profit for their owners or shareholders. Who do you think foots the bill for bankrupt companies? We do, the consumer, including your guy that is just trying to get by!!!
This is another place where you are totally disconnected from the working man. You have no concept what it is like to live from hand to mouth. Otherwise, you would understand that the people in this predicament cannot think of spending money on a 401K plan. It really even makes me wonder if you are in fact who you say you are!! A small business employer sees this first hand from his employees. You don't seem to understand this. Also, your insistance about applying economic fixes that we all learn in first year economic classes also makes me wonder where you are coming from. These are concepts that we all understand, but the real-life application of these concepts have very significant problems. I think everyone understands that companies are in business to produce profits. Seems I had to point out this subtle point in one of my earlier posts about Toyota. But thanks for the economic lesson. As far as bankrupt companies.. I don't see that as part of the discussion, don't change the subject.
I really don't think you even understand a capitalistic society. Based on your comments, it is very apparent that you don't believe in it.
LOL, ok.. we gonna change the subject again.. seems to be a common tactic with you guys.
BTW, according to the US census, for those of you that believe things are getting better for everyone:
From the most recent trough in 2000, both the number of people in poverty and rate have risen for three consecutive years, from 31.6 million and 11.3 percent in 2000, to 35.9 million and 12.5 percent in 2003.
The suggestion that we can prosper domestically by becoming "more global" is a simple generalization that has little meaning in this discussion. When you define "more global" as increasing exports, then it is good. When you define "more global" as meaning increasing imports, then it is not good. More imports imply sending more money off-shore which only increases the trade deficit. Clearly a bad idea from any American's perspective.
Obviously there needs to be more balance. No one is arguing that. However, the only way we can REALISTICALLY affect the balance is to sell more globally which increases American job security and the economy. As shown numerous times in this forum, there are many products that you can't even get from American companies. There are some "imports" that have more American content than some domestics. So, you are the kettle calling the pot black when you say that any argument other than yours is a simplistic view. It is, in fact, the other way around.
Hey 05PRED500.. I can't argue with that.. it what I have been saying al along LOL, glad you agree with my viewpoint. And as I have said in previous posts, I realize that there are things that we can only buy from off shore companies.
The thought that we can simply change jobs in midstream with little impact on the average worker simply ignores the reality of such a change. That is the retraining and loss of wages during that time. Clearly this is a macroscopic view of our economy that only the generalist will hold on to.
What do you think will have to happen to the 25k workers GM is laying off? Sometimes, people have to reorganize and change directions. I know many that have. I have also had to make major changes. I refuse to believe that people, in general, can't adapt and overcome. It happens all the time. Our people are much more resilient than you give them credit for.
Maybe you need to read the papers more often. GM is laying off because of decreased market share due to people buying off-shore cars. This is exactly why we are arguing about!! It is what happens when "lean techniques" are implemented. It is exactly what happens when people like you buy Honda and Nissan.
Clearly any loss of skilled trade jobs in the US to other countries is not a step in the right direction. There are too many Americans that are not "into" high tech jobs that require college education. Instead, these talented individuals will be forced into the small business sector which has lower pay and less benefits.
Life is tough for some people that may be used to getting over paid for a job. But for many, they will land other good jobs with similar pay and benefits.
This is where we disagree dramtically, it is your opinion that these people should be paid as poorly as your employees!! I don't feel that is the solution!!
Currently, 67% of high school graduates enter college. What about the other 43% of our high school graduates? These people also deserve a quality job with good benefits. The suggestion that these people should go to school and get high tech jobs, once again ignores reality. In the past, these people could get skilled trades jobs. However, without a strong domestic manufacturing base, these jobs will no longer exist. And these people will be lost in lower paying, less benefits jobs. Seems that some people think these people should just work at Mcdonalds for $10 per hour and raise families on that wage. That is bordering on ludicrous. Now, if we have this huge pool of workers with less benefits needs health care, who is going to pay their medical bills? Eventually, we will all pay someway or another.
Of all your responses, this one is the most absurd. I guess this is what you have to fall back on when losing an argument. No one expects people to work at McDonalds to support a family. If they do, that is by choice. Can you not understand that EVERYTHING is relative? If companies pay higher wages when they are not warranted, their prices go up and the number of employees go down. This puts the workers in a cycle where they pay more for goods (inflation). I am sorry that you fall into the media's propoganda and believe that only low wage jobs replace factory jobs. It may be true in pockets of the country where manufacturing is the only industry to speak of. But, in the country as a whole, it isn't true.
You were the one that suggested that Macdonalds was so great because you can make $10 per hour. LOL, again the economic analysis applied in a broad application accross the world with little reguard to real people. And a new twist: the media in a conspiracy forcing propaganda throughout America on all of us unsuspecting morons. Thanks for pointing that out to me!!
The most reasonable way to support this skilled trades worker and provide him benefits is by supporting their industries. Currently, one of the largest of these industries is the Auto workers and the first and second tier suppliers.
Yea...Skilled trade workers in the US work for many companies including Toyat, Honda, and Nissan. Of course, you have a problem supporting those workers.
I am sorry that you believe that the way to support the US economy and it workers is to buy from Honda and Nissan. Fortunately, 80% of us Americans don't agree with you.
Then there are some people that think that wages and benefits are not being reduced. LOL, they do not know the auto industry at all. Medical benefits are slowly eroding away for all workers even remotely associated with the domestic auto industry. The suggestion that this is propaganda is down right irresponsible. Clearly, a sign that these people are totally disconnected from what is going on in the real world.
They aren't being reduced...Costs are going up. Companies can't keep up without losing money. Of course, we all know what happens when companies lose money. We (people that understand the dynamics) aren't disconnected. We are simply aware of more than our small world.
You are disconnected because you do not understand the manufacturing sector. Seems that I have had at least the education that you have had, yet I am at odds with you on most every point. My experience is much closer to the automotive industry and your experience is in the retail industry. Furthermore, your insistance that buying Nissan and Honda is good for the US economy is not logical. You cannot argue from a competative viewpoint, because GM competes with these companies on a global scale, so any lessons learned in this competition in a foreign contry will be applied globally and in the US. You cannot argue from a monetary standpoint because buying off-shore products automatically send more dollars overseas. You cannot argue from a durablity, reliability or quality standpoint because these vehicles are so close in all categories. Fact is, you are just simply justifying your purchase. That is fine, just don't feed us all this other BS.
Who owns corporations? The people that own the stock. Not the guy that works at McDonalds. Not the guy that works for small business. The suggestion that all Americans own corporations is very misleading. They guy that is scraping by to support his wife and kids has no chance to buy into these stocks unless he is in a reasonable paying job for a big corporation that provides these benefits. However, some people think that these people are too over paid to receive such benefits. Hopefully, such people will never be in charge of the purse strings at these companies. Or if they are, we pray that there will be a group of people like the UAW to support the workers.
Wrong!! Actually, you couldn't be more wrong. People of all walks of life own stocks and mutual funds. Are you aware that McDonald's has a matching 401k? Are you aware that many small businesses have various forms of retirement programs such as a SEP like mine? You must be completely lost in your world, or at the very least oblivious to other industry. Are you even aware of what constitutes a small business. Some people think companies are in business to employ rather than to make a profit for their owners or shareholders. Who do you think foots the bill for bankrupt companies? We do, the consumer, including your guy that is just trying to get by!!!
This is another place where you are totally disconnected from the working man. You have no concept what it is like to live from hand to mouth. Otherwise, you would understand that the people in this predicament cannot think of spending money on a 401K plan. It really even makes me wonder if you are in fact who you say you are!! A small business employer sees this first hand from his employees. You don't seem to understand this. Also, your insistance about applying economic fixes that we all learn in first year economic classes also makes me wonder where you are coming from. These are concepts that we all understand, but the real-life application of these concepts have very significant problems. I think everyone understands that companies are in business to produce profits. Seems I had to point out this subtle point in one of my earlier posts about Toyota. But thanks for the economic lesson. As far as bankrupt companies.. I don't see that as part of the discussion, don't change the subject.
I really don't think you even understand a capitalistic society. Based on your comments, it is very apparent that you don't believe in it.
LOL, ok.. we gonna change the subject again.. seems to be a common tactic with you guys.
BTW, according to the US census, for those of you that believe things are getting better for everyone:
From the most recent trough in 2000, both the number of people in poverty and rate have risen for three consecutive years, from 31.6 million and 11.3 percent in 2000, to 35.9 million and 12.5 percent in 2003.
Jun 24, 2005 | 12:15 AM
#186
Pro Rider
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 563
Likes: 0
Why buy American
Ok, BryceGTX is gone for awhile so lets have some fun with him and lighten things up at the same time. He has a good sense of humor.
I'll go first.
The question is: what was the last thing you bought from off shore?
1. Shoes - made in China. I'm looking at a Honda too ; )
Spin this however you want, but lets keep replies to this quote fun!
I'll go first.
The question is: what was the last thing you bought from off shore?
1. Shoes - made in China. I'm looking at a Honda too ; )
Spin this however you want, but lets keep replies to this quote fun!
Jun 24, 2005 | 10:23 PM
#187
Pro Rider
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 298
Likes: 0
Why buy American
Originally posted by: Lukester
Ok, BryceGTX is gone for awhile so lets have some fun with him and lighten things up at the same time. He has a good sense of humor.
I'll go first.
The question is: what was the last thing you bought from off shore?
1. Shoes - made in China. I'm looking at a Honda too ; )
Spin this however you want, but lets keep replies to this quote fun!
Ok, BryceGTX is gone for awhile so lets have some fun with him and lighten things up at the same time. He has a good sense of humor.
I'll go first.
The question is: what was the last thing you bought from off shore?
1. Shoes - made in China. I'm looking at a Honda too ; )
Spin this however you want, but lets keep replies to this quote fun!
Bryce is losing his argument so badly he now claims that I'm not who I am!! That's because my parents bought me in India. I really operate a call center in Ramanathapuram.
Jun 24, 2005 | 11:55 PM
#188
Trailblazer
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Why buy American
New Balance has or had some shoes made in the US. You pay $50+ for them but they last 3 times longer than china shoes.
I try my best to NEVER buy things made in china. They are communists. I am not. I will not support them or American corps that have sold out to them. This means comming home from shopping empty handed many times.
Japan through it's actions seems much more concerned with the American economy than almost all US companys do. They seem to be the only ones moving jobs into this country.
I go to this website: CIA Website to find out what form of government different countrys have before they get my money.
I try my best to NEVER buy things made in china. They are communists. I am not. I will not support them or American corps that have sold out to them. This means comming home from shopping empty handed many times.
Japan through it's actions seems much more concerned with the American economy than almost all US companys do. They seem to be the only ones moving jobs into this country.
I go to this website: CIA Website to find out what form of government different countrys have before they get my money.
Jun 25, 2005 | 01:58 PM
#190
Pro Rider
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 450
Likes: 0
Why buy American
Bryce hasn't lost anything. I commend him for spending so much time arguing with someone that has as hard of a head, as you do. You're just another one of those deluded individuals that has himself convinced he's right. The fact is, there are hundreds of millions of consumers right here in the USA.... the "global economy" way does not benefit the majority of us. We are building up other countries, while tearing ourselves down. We outsource good jobs for bad ones. The more that happens, the more everyone gets squeezed. The tax base suffers as lower wage workers earn less and pay less. The only thing keeping the country from going out of business now, is low interest rates.
You say you pay your employees decently, good for you. Too bad more business owners weren't like that. American workers aren't asking for a whole lot, a decent job with decent pay...and a level playing field. Your "global economy" is about taking care of the few, not the many. Big businesses benefit by sending our jobs overseas, and reap even more benefits by not paying their fair share of taxes. Personally, I'm surprised you are buying into all this, smaller businesses will be taken on a greater share of the burden.
I am absolutely not gonna argue with you about this. I know it is an excercise in futility.
You say you pay your employees decently, good for you. Too bad more business owners weren't like that. American workers aren't asking for a whole lot, a decent job with decent pay...and a level playing field. Your "global economy" is about taking care of the few, not the many. Big businesses benefit by sending our jobs overseas, and reap even more benefits by not paying their fair share of taxes. Personally, I'm surprised you are buying into all this, smaller businesses will be taken on a greater share of the burden.
I am absolutely not gonna argue with you about this. I know it is an excercise in futility.