bad: I'm not trying to be a jerk about this stuff, and I do understand your point completely. I'm like you, follow the directions and things work out much better that way. But sometimes knowing a little more, goes a long way.

My reason for sticking to my guns are simple.

1: Synthetic should be avoided during break-in.

2: To break an engine in, takes many hours, not one. (I realize you went beyond one hour's time, super)

3: Manuals are not always right. (They were put together by some technical engineers), not necessarily experts in the field of oil and ideal engine break in parameters.

I don't know if you examined the links in the very start of this thread, but this thread, The guy who followed the manual....., shows how in one case, following directions didn’t work out to well….

The same questions you’re asking, they asked too on this website.

" I don't understand how that happened, I followed the owner's manual instructions 100% !! "

"Why would Honda recommend a break in method will prevent the rings from sealing as well as possible ??"



"This is a good question ..."

I don't have the answer and either do they.

Do you?

An engine is an engine. They all must be broken in, in some fashion or another (opinions on process vary of course). Yes, some take longer than others, but clearly at one hour's time, it's not.

Were you able to find the voiding of one's warranty when being out of compliance with the recommended oil type in the manual? I didn't either.

 

With the three year development of this machine.....hmmmm, kinda thinking the Polaris engineers are a whole lot more familiar with the operational needs (breakin) of the machine they produced. Run what you want, I'm putting my trust in the factory suggestions developed from the factory testing.


Ken

 

Let me preface this by saying I am not going to try to recommend one oil over another. I am not going to try to convince you 1 hr break in is better or worse than 20 hours run in. I will bring up some points to ponder...

I have worked for 3 major oil companies, with my responsibility always being the equiptment, maintenance, or analysis of what failed or what worked. I have taken care of 88,000 hp spread over 70 reciprocating engines that ran 24hrs a day, 365 days a year, shutdown only for maintenance. These engines were 2 cycle natural gas fueled, 4 cycle turboed, and diesel. Oil analysis is done every 30 days.

Any new or rebuilt engine needs to run in when first fired up. Agree?
What parts are involved in the break in process? What items are most critical and affected by friction and heat? What parts NEED friction to break in? What parts do not need run in?

The most critical items to get run in are the Piston to bore and the rings to the bore. These items need some friction to seat the rings and get the piston "familiar" with the bore. Modern piston rings will seat in less than one hour run time. Chrome rings sometimes used in rebuilds will take longer, but moly faced or plain iron rings will seat in less than one hour runtime. This is the only part of an engine that a synthetic will interfere will the run in process to the point of being detrimental. Cams and followers also break in, but, friction here is a bad thing, synthetics will improve the process here. Bearings do not require a run in period. Atv's also have gearbox's attached, these require a run in period to get the parts properly acclimated, but, friction here is a bad thing so synthetic oils don't hurt.

Remember, Synthetics don't prevent all wear from happening. If that was the case nothing would ever wear out. Engines can be broke in with either type of oil (I've done it repeatedly).

One hour of runtime will seat the rings, changing oil types at that point will allow everything else to run in without excessive or unnecessary wear. I think that's the strategy adopted by the Fuji & Polaris engineers.

 

Truckracer that was a very informative post and thats exactly what i did with my break in on my predator I ran the machine for about 3.5 hrs or so until my first tank of gas was gone then at that point I drained the factory oil and refilled with polaris 0W/40 synthetic and new filter this is polaris recomendation with the predator but i have one ? to you and that would be was I wrong to wait until the first tank of gas was gone which turned out to be approx.. 3.5 hrs or so run time keep in mind this was not all in one day either this was with cool downs or should I have did this exactly at one hr..........hey and truckracer when are ya going to post some pics of your pred on your page?..............keep roostin

 

I don't think you hurt anything by running 3.5 hours before the first oil change. That's taking into consideration the oil & filter were doing their job of lubricating and carrying wear particles away from contact points in the engine. The 1 hour recommendation in the manual is an arbitrary number, although I would not want to exceed it by say 10 hours after all the crap I found in my first oil change (1.5hrs).

I have a couple of pics I'll try to post tonight when I get in............................


Denny

 

truck: Thanks for the informative/well experienced post. I have only knowledge with the things I've owned and the research I've done via reading. You speak first hand, so that's great.

I agree, the rings and cylinder are the most critical in terms of "break in". This is well substantiated everywhere. I too will not tell anyone what brand or weight of oil to run. That is totally preference. My whole point from the very beginning was to see what others were using during their break in period. I did notice that people were going along with the manual, in that one hour is the proper break in and the oil should then be converted to the full synthetic PS4 immediately, and nothing else. That bothers me. PS4 is not the only oil that can be used effectively in this engine after breaking it in.

Page 104 of the owners manual states:

“Polaris highly recommends the use of Polaris PS-4 or a similar oil designed for use in 4-stroke manual clutch ATV and motorcycle applications.”

A similar oil is not PS-4, it can be a number of other ideal oils to use.

Additionally, people that take extra precaution and care when breaking in their engines, will do so beyond the one hour scope of when Polaris recommends first changing the oil and switching to PS-4.

But, all in all, I don’t agree with…..

Truck: “Engines can be broke in with either type of oil (I've done it repeatedly).”

That’s just not the case. Sure, anyone may be able to use any type during break in, it’s their choice, but the one that used conventional will outlast and outperform the one that used synthetics immediately, or shortly thereafter initial break in.

Research it. No one will tell you to use synthetic during break in.

Plus, there will be no end to discussing what the “proper break in period is”. Everyone, and I mean everyone and their grandma will have a different opinion on this. I like to run things for 5-10+ hours, if an ATV/d-bike. Others say 1-3 hours. Some say 10-15+ hours. For my car, I do 3-5k miles. Then others will say only 1k miles for a car.

Opinions Opinions… dang things… [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

"Research it. No one will tell you to use synthetic during break in."
Thats strange, many new cars and trucks come from the factory with synthetic oils now. And no they are not broke in before synthetic oil is added. They have been designed to do so. Don't kid yourself, synthetic oil is good but not so good to the point that it won't let your engine break in, that is a myth of the past.

Here is an interesting theory of engine break in that many of you may disagree with, that I found interesting. http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

 

scrambler: Call me ignorant, but I know/heard/read nothing of the sort regarding synthetics being used during break in, in cars/trucks. I'll look into it.

 

Here you go. From Mobil's website Mobil One



<a href="/includes/redirect.jsp?target=http://www.mobiltravelguide.com/" target="_new&gt;&lt;IMG" border="0&gt;&lt;/A" width="120" src="/ImgServlet?imageId=209" alt="Mobil Travel Guides" height="90">Myths About Synthetics
You should break in your engine with conventional oil, then switch to Mobil 1.&lt;/B&gt;&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;/TR&gt;

You can start using Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ in new vehicles at any time, even in brand-new vehicles. In fact, Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ is original equipment (it is installed at the factory) in:
Chevrolet Corvette
All Porsche vehicles
Mercedes-Benz AMG vehicles
Dodge Viper
Ford Mustang Cobra R
All Aston Martin cars]

One of the myths that persists about Mobil 1 is that new engines require a break-in period with conventional oil. Current engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period. As indicated by the decisions of the engineers who design these high-performance cars, Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ can be used in an engine from the day you drive the car off the showroom floor.


</A>A different yet the same view here Stealth , note the good info on the piston ring to cylinder breakin time.

 

truck, great, I learned something about certain, more expensive cars. I Read the entire page on the Mobil 1 site and the guy's TT Stealth site. This reveals to me that certain new cars have this added benefit. This does not represent 99.9% of the new engines out there already, nor ones that have been rebuilt.

Newer, more expensive technology is not available to all production engines, this is why the conventional oil is tried and true in break ins for the majority of engines out there..... even Redline will say this, and so will other big name synthetic players out there.

I did note what his opinion was about the rings breaking in. I totally agree that the first moments of operation are essential to a proper break in, I just feel, and so do others, that final break in extends beyond this short scope of time.

Also, did PS-4 come lubed from the factory on the Predators? No, not what I've been told. Do you know of any engines with regards ATV's/Motorcycles that come prelubed with synthetics from the factory? I can't think of any. Maybe BMW does??