With the introduction of synthetic blended oils for 2-strokes and new technology, there is no reason why there should not be 2-strokes continued to be produced. If the same time and effort were put into the 2-strokes that has gone into the thumper motors, then there would still be no comparison. It took the 4-strokes, what, about 40 years to even come close to the buzzsaws and they still dont compare in power to weight? I still want to see the chainsaw that you can carry up a tree and then turn sideways and cut the tree down and it be a 4-stroke. It is really nice for me to be able to cut my large 45 degree ditchbank with my old trusty Lawnboy pushmower and it not lock up from lack of lubrication.
How many people take the necessary time to properly tune up and synch their carbs on the multiple cylinder thumpers? There is pollution on any of them that is anything over 6 months old. It just happens. If they werent properly broke in then the pollution factor just got raised also. if you notice the only multi cylinder thumpers are in pretty much utility quads. You dont see the V competing in the big shootouts because they can hang. Power to weight does become a big factor. So these guys buy these big singles, put in high compression pistons, big cams, big carbs, and run race fuel to compete to these under 400cc buzzsaws. Hmmmm pretty efficient sounding to me.

 

So I guess you're trying to say that 2-strokes have L.A. all smogged up? Huh? I think it's a lot of 4 strokes in a concentrated area and not 2 strokes. Get off your soapbox.

 

I didn't even come close to saying that 2-strokes are what is causing air pollution problems in L.A. or the San Joaquin Valley. But I'm sure they are adding their part.

There are a multitude of causes. And the causes are different between L.A. and SJV and they are seperate by just a mountain range. I don't know the exact shape of the L.A. air basin, but the SJV air basin is about 60-70 miles wide and runs for a couple hundred miles north/south and above that you have the Sacramento Valley. Collectively they are the Great Central Valley (or just Central Valley) with the San Francisco Bay area to the west of where they meet. Basically pollution gets trapped in by a mountain range to the east (the Sierra Nevada Mountain Ranger over 10,000 ft high) and a lower mountain range to the south (the main road over is called The Grapevine). As well as the Coastal Range to the west. This is going to go too far off topic so I'll cut it at that.

I wasn't on a soap box, but mearly pointing out the issues as I see them. I have no problem with 2-strokes in and of themselves. But let's face it, they aren't a very clean engine (emissions wise in current form.) If companies would put R&D money into them, they CAN be made clean. Most automobile engines have so many emission control systems in place they are VERY clean. I would love to see a 2-stroke meet the emissions requirements. It has the power to weight ratio that four strokes just can't even come close. Not to mention the simplicity...what something like 3 moving parts (crank, rod and piston)? A 4-stroke has crank, rod, piston, timing chain/belt, cam, lifter (2), push rod (2), rocker arm (2), valve (2) and that's just for a single piston OHV. Granted, newer OHC engines can cut out push rods and rocker arms.

I believe somewhere on this forum someone noted one of the weed wacker makers has built a 2-stroke that does indeed meet the requirements. So it can be done. Customers need to let those manufacturers know that there is a market. And I'm sure those manufacturers are working on getting 2-strokes clean. They still have almost 1 year and 11 months.

The diesel manufacturers are bitching up a storm about pollution requirements in CA. But guess what, they'll get there. It just takes time, effort and money. Wouldn't you rather the air be cleaner? Come spend the summer in Fresno and tell me what you think. To give you an idea, there are times you cannot see the buildings in downtown Fresno from 10 miles away (on an elevated freeway). And those beautiful mountains to the north and east...can't see them from June to September from 15 miles away.

The following goes to UKzillas posts on 2/1/04:

" your actualy wrong about the energy situation on a per cc basis the 2 stroke is the most powerfull internal combustion engine ever designed,..."

The technical term you are noting is Specific Output. A Zilla puts out 50HP correct? That would equate to 100HP/L. The 2000 Honda S2000 sportster was pushing out 120HP/L (I picked a naturally aspirated engine to be fair. I wouldn't exactly call an S2000 a supercar or exotic @ US$30,000). I'd be willing to bet the current value of Microsoft the emissions from that Honda are better than the Zilla and it has 4 times the displacement.

On the snowmobile issue, you are probably right. But they have a little more room to work with I think. If they can get more oxygen into the cylinder and exhaust they can move to using catalysts to clean up unburned fuel.

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i think they should be worrying about people that pollute our waters with toxic stuff every single day instead of weed wackers right now. We have way bigger issues than 2 strokes...

 

RIGHT ON SPEAK DA TRUTH BRUTHA!

 

two stokes do make alot of HP but a fourstroke can almost make the same amount but the differenc is that the four stroke has tourque and tourque is what you want . when i had my p650 i could keep the front wheel up till i hit 45mph and that is on a 645 pound quad. knot i bet if you were to put that motor on the 650 it would have a hell of a hard time lifting the front end you would have to power brake it let it revv to like 13000 rpm then let the brake go and that would be unsafe. i say get ride of 2 strokes they stink,sound like a bunch of bees, and polute like crazy.


two stokes $uck four strokes truck.

i also want a deaisel sport quad that would be bad a$$

 

2 strokes don't produce any power well why dose my so called piece of sh$t 400 sport produce more hp than a z 400 stock and the same hp as a raptor a ds650, and they have the sweetest sound they are the most powerful interanl combustion engine ever designed, and what if they polute a lot

 

ORIGINALLY POSTED BY PRAIRIEVENOM
This point of view was from a heavily inbred person.I know this cause only a heavily ingrained redneck would want a diesel quad.

I'm willing to bet the CR500 & KX500 out torque most 4 strokes.They punch out around 48-51 ft lbs and 62-65 hp

 

That's an interesting idea prarie...a diesel powered quad. Thing should be able to tow a damn truck. LOL. And my ex used to say that 2-strokes sounded like a bunch of pissed off bumblebees.

xxxracerxxx: Your 400 2-stroke makes more power than a Z400 because of the inherent high Specific Output of a 2-stroke engine over a 4-stroke (4-stroke equivelent would be a 706-720cc). A Rotary engine pushes out much more HP/L (Specific Output) than a 2-stroke. 192HP/L 2004 Mazda RX-8 (1.3L 2 rotar). So, they are not the most powerful internal combustion engine in either Specific Output or in total power (that last title goes to some monster diesel or natural gas motors). This whole topic was based on the issue that they do polute, so it isn't "so what."

Shee: the ad hominim makes any argument you make look like bunk. A clean burning diesel in a utility quad could probably sell pretty well. Especially in the construction and ag markets. As it would be an off-road vehicle, they could probably legally use red diesel fuel (no road taxes are added to the fuel cost) that most contractors and ag operations run. And diesel engines generally have very low fuel consumption for their power levels. And many diesels have nearly flat torque curves which makes them great for heavy work.

Again, comparing a 500cc 2-stroke against anything less than about a 880-900cc 4-stroke isn't a fair comparison do to specific output comparisons. I'm basing an equal comparison in 2-stroke vs. 4-stroke based on the fact that 250cc 2-strokes compete against 440-450cc 4-strokes (1.76-1.8x the cc.) I have yet to see a 880-900cc motor come from the factory in a MC or ATV. A friend of mine has a KX500...can't wait to sell it for a 4-stroke.

I've come to the realization that I spend intirely too much time researching and writing my posts. LOL

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I'll buy a 4 stroke the day they can make a 250 4 stroke as fast as a 250r or a 350 4 stroke as fast as a Banshee. Not going to happen. 4 strokes have a wasted engine movement and will always be slower. This is commen sense. There is no reason to argue.