Utility 4x4s are killing the trails
#11
07-10-2005, 04:57 AM
Utility 4x4s are killing the trails
As for the safety issue and killing people................
Accidents do happen, no matter what you are doing...
How you ride, how well you know your limits, how well you know the capabilities/limits of your machine, if you wear ALL the appropriate safety gear, will ultimately lessen or heighten your chances of getting injured or killed. Not whether or not you ride a Sportie or a Ute.
Sure these Utes are big, heavy, and powerful......
But aren't the Sporties also, light, fast, agile, and how bout the power to weight ratio???
A Sportie can get away from you just as well as a Utility.
As they are making Utilities bigger, heavier, more powerful........
They are making Sporties lighter and more powerful......
With the aftermarket industry, it's all about making the sporties faster and giving them more power.
People will get killed on both Utes and Sporties.
I would challenge you to show more people get, or will get, killed on Utes than Sporties.
The bottom line accidents will happen no matter if you are on a quad, motorcycle, in a car, truck, etc.
An idiot/reckless driver can get killed driving an AMC Pacer or Pinto Wagon...........
A good/careful driver can drive a Porsche or Lamborghini for a lifetime without getting killed.
Accidents do happen, no matter what you are doing...
How you ride, how well you know your limits, how well you know the capabilities/limits of your machine, if you wear ALL the appropriate safety gear, will ultimately lessen or heighten your chances of getting injured or killed. Not whether or not you ride a Sportie or a Ute.
Sure these Utes are big, heavy, and powerful......
But aren't the Sporties also, light, fast, agile, and how bout the power to weight ratio???
A Sportie can get away from you just as well as a Utility.
As they are making Utilities bigger, heavier, more powerful........
They are making Sporties lighter and more powerful......
With the aftermarket industry, it's all about making the sporties faster and giving them more power.
People will get killed on both Utes and Sporties.
I would challenge you to show more people get, or will get, killed on Utes than Sporties.
The bottom line accidents will happen no matter if you are on a quad, motorcycle, in a car, truck, etc.
An idiot/reckless driver can get killed driving an AMC Pacer or Pinto Wagon...........
A good/careful driver can drive a Porsche or Lamborghini for a lifetime without getting killed.
#12
07-10-2005, 05:25 AM
Utility 4x4s are killing the trails
Originally posted by: maxrpm
No doubt...............Look at the new 800s. Just how fast do you need to go on a 800# lawn tractor anyway? Why not just get a sport? All it would take is for one to roll over on you and your done. Not to mention most of the beerbellyed utility riders I've seen don't wear helmets.
Originally posted by: reconranger
Lots of folks are going to get killed on these things, and we are going to see a backlash over "safety", like we saw in the 3-wheeler days.
Lots of folks are going to get killed on these things, and we are going to see a backlash over "safety", like we saw in the 3-wheeler days.
Lots of folks are going to get killed on these things?????
And people don't get killed on Sporties...hhhmmmm
A backlash over safety because of the Utilities??????
Maybe backlash because of all the idiot riders, no matter what they ride
Why Not just get a Sport???????
Oh ya, great idea...get a Sportie because they are so much faster that you "F" yourself up even better when you crash..
All it would take is for one to roll on you????
All it takes is one Sportie to auger into a tree while flying down the trail, all it takes is one sportie to fly off a razorback at the dunes.........
Most of the beerbellied Utility don't wear helmets????
Try going to the dunes and checking out all the guys riding Sporties without helmets..
At that, Sporties that are so modified up they are just flatt a$$ fasterer than hell..
All the while doing 60-70 mph across the dunes, climbing and jumping monster hills.
You know what, I love riding both Sporties and Utes... They are both fun for what they are built for.
This is a great sport, and not without risks, as any other sport.
<u>Our Sport has enough people against us, trying to regulate and ban the use of quads, trying to close down more and more of our riding areas. We don't do ourselves or the sport any good by publicly slamming and degrading any part of it. We will only be hurting ourselves</u>
As I said above..... Riding a Sport or Utes makes no difference.....
"How you ride, how well you know your limits, how well you know the capabilities/limits of your machine, if you wear ALL the appropriate safety gear, will ultimately lessen or heighten your chances of getting injured or killed. Not whether or not you ride a Sportie or a Ute."
#13
07-10-2005, 08:54 AM
Red Rider
Honda, accept nothing less!
Honda, accept nothing less!
Utility 4x4s are killing the trails
As far as trail damage, just like one has to have sense enough to wear a helmet for safety, sometimes trail conditions are so bad that you just need to have the sense to stay home and not tear the trail up. But, just like with the helmet issue, you can never count on everybody to be sensible enough to do it.
As far as safety, the worst crashes I have seen, have taken place when the bike is hardly even moving, or even standing still! They happen when somebody trys to climb a hill and can't make it, and they find themselves at such a steep angle that they can't hold the bike and keep it from rolling. Here, a light little 350 lb. sport bike with a low center of gravity and wide track is going to be easier and safer to get down off the hill, than a huge top heavy 750 lb. monster ute. And you don't even what to get me started about the crashes I have seen because somebody didn't use their loading ramps correctly!
I don't want to offend anybody, but these huge "cruiser couch" utes seem to appeal most to an aging baby boomer demographic, who are looking for a cush comfortable ride and the added security of 4wd. These folks tend to be weaker and less fit, and just aren't capable of handling a big heavy machine when it gets into trouble. And sometimes having 4wd can tempt you into more risky situations than a 2wd would. In a sense, THOSE AT MOST RISK ARE THE VERY YOUNG AND THE VERY OLD. The young because of inexperience, and the old because they can't handle the machines. I really think these two groups are actually more at risk than even some wild teenager who is riding his Blaster toooo fast.
As far as safety, the worst crashes I have seen, have taken place when the bike is hardly even moving, or even standing still! They happen when somebody trys to climb a hill and can't make it, and they find themselves at such a steep angle that they can't hold the bike and keep it from rolling. Here, a light little 350 lb. sport bike with a low center of gravity and wide track is going to be easier and safer to get down off the hill, than a huge top heavy 750 lb. monster ute. And you don't even what to get me started about the crashes I have seen because somebody didn't use their loading ramps correctly!
I don't want to offend anybody, but these huge "cruiser couch" utes seem to appeal most to an aging baby boomer demographic, who are looking for a cush comfortable ride and the added security of 4wd. These folks tend to be weaker and less fit, and just aren't capable of handling a big heavy machine when it gets into trouble. And sometimes having 4wd can tempt you into more risky situations than a 2wd would. In a sense, THOSE AT MOST RISK ARE THE VERY YOUNG AND THE VERY OLD. The young because of inexperience, and the old because they can't handle the machines. I really think these two groups are actually more at risk than even some wild teenager who is riding his Blaster toooo fast.
#14
07-10-2005, 09:30 AM
Utility 4x4s are killing the trails
Yeah, in my post I was trying to add a little sarcasm but that is really hard to so when writing. I just wanted to show how ridiculous this thread is.
Quad4fun, as far as what you had to say, I am not P'd off at all. All I have to say is AMEN.
Some people just need to be mature and realize everybody doesn't wear the same pair of glasses when looking at the world, so we all see things a little different and we shouldn't be punished or diminished in any way because we do so.
Happy trails.....no matter what you ride and respect those who differ from you. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif[/img]
Quad4fun, as far as what you had to say, I am not P'd off at all. All I have to say is AMEN.
Some people just need to be mature and realize everybody doesn't wear the same pair of glasses when looking at the world, so we all see things a little different and we shouldn't be punished or diminished in any way because we do so.
Happy trails.....no matter what you ride and respect those who differ from you. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif[/img]
#15
07-10-2005, 10:27 AM
Utility 4x4s are killing the trails
brutebadger, Well said,
"Some people just need to be mature and realize everybody doesn't wear the same pair of glasses when looking at the world, so we all see things a little different and we shouldn't be punished or diminished in any way because we do so. "
There is so much division in the world now adays,"either youre with us or against us", mentallity is makeing people intolerant of others.
I think the point is the same, as with the gun issue. Guns dont kill people, people kill people. 4x4s dont rut...unless a human is on it. The inanamate object doesnt do any damage,...its the driver doing the damage.
I try to practice tread lightly prinicpals, and I know my 4x4s cause less damage to the envirionment, then if i was on a 2x4 , because im able to keep traction better.
The tree huggers win when we divide ourselves into small factions, and fight amoung ourselves.
"Some people just need to be mature and realize everybody doesn't wear the same pair of glasses when looking at the world, so we all see things a little different and we shouldn't be punished or diminished in any way because we do so. "
There is so much division in the world now adays,"either youre with us or against us", mentallity is makeing people intolerant of others.
I think the point is the same, as with the gun issue. Guns dont kill people, people kill people. 4x4s dont rut...unless a human is on it. The inanamate object doesnt do any damage,...its the driver doing the damage.
I try to practice tread lightly prinicpals, and I know my 4x4s cause less damage to the envirionment, then if i was on a 2x4 , because im able to keep traction better.
The tree huggers win when we divide ourselves into small factions, and fight amoung ourselves.
#16
07-10-2005, 11:26 AM
Utility 4x4s are killing the trails
i know its mostly driver but just on plain grass i can fly and stuff on my warrior and do no damage while my friends sp400 tears lil tread marks just driving and its his stock tires that are half worn and also i used to be able to go through this one muddy trail then he went through it a few times now nobody without a 4x4 can make it through and i used to be able to go through all day long now i need hip boots and a tow rope and friend
#17
07-10-2005, 02:10 PM
Utility 4x4s are killing the trails
Good points by everybody.
"Some people just need to be mature and realize everybody doesn't wear the same pair of glasses when looking at the world, so we all see things a little different and we shouldn't be punished or diminished in any way because we do so. "
Absolutely.......
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The tree huggers win when we divide ourselves into small factions, and fight amoung ourselves.
My point exactly.............
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Brute,
Your sarcasm was funny, at least I thought so [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] I got your point.....
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Speed,
That is true, I won't ride my Rincon on any grass or whevever I can do "damage" where it shouldn't be done. The stock tires are very agressive. Some Sporties come stock with tires that are not very agressive, but most folks do end up putting more aggressive tires on there Sporties, depending on the riding they do. I've seen Sportie tires that do the same thing.
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ss97's point is true,
Utes can tear up things pretty good, maybe sometimes better than others..
But so can Sporties and motorcycles...... It's often times the cumalitive effect of everybody riding an area that tears it up.........
We all just need to be responsible and think......
AMEN
"Some people just need to be mature and realize everybody doesn't wear the same pair of glasses when looking at the world, so we all see things a little different and we shouldn't be punished or diminished in any way because we do so. "
Absolutely.......
----------
The tree huggers win when we divide ourselves into small factions, and fight amoung ourselves.
My point exactly.............
----------
Brute,
Your sarcasm was funny, at least I thought so [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] I got your point.....
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Speed,
That is true, I won't ride my Rincon on any grass or whevever I can do "damage" where it shouldn't be done. The stock tires are very agressive. Some Sporties come stock with tires that are not very agressive, but most folks do end up putting more aggressive tires on there Sporties, depending on the riding they do. I've seen Sportie tires that do the same thing.
----------
ss97's point is true,
Utes can tear up things pretty good, maybe sometimes better than others..
But so can Sporties and motorcycles...... It's often times the cumalitive effect of everybody riding an area that tears it up.........
We all just need to be responsible and think......
AMEN
#18
07-10-2005, 02:47 PM
Red Rider
Honda, accept nothing less!
Honda, accept nothing less!
#19
07-11-2005, 12:02 AM
Utility 4x4s are killing the trails
Originally posted by: Hollywood330
In June of this year, I participated in an ATV environmental impact study done by the United States Department of Agriculture, Forest Service.
This was a week long event in Washington State, northwest of Wenatchee. This was the final location in this study that was done nation-wide over the course of the last year.
Trails were carefully surveyed and variety of ATV's and tire types were used.
The first day was a setup day in which recording telemetry was attached to the ATV's to measure everything from speed to horizontal and lateral acceleration.
We ran cycles over several different trail surfaces with 2 x 4 and 4 x4 quads.........with stock tires......and the aggressive 589's.
After 40 "cycles" the computer laiden ATV's would be downloaded and measurements made of the trail surface and back out we'd go.
At the end of the week we'd completed in excess of 400 cycles.......and enough information gathered to open a library...........
If nothing else, it was abundantly clear that it is riding style, not type of quad, that causes damage to trails........AND......... that a utility 4 x 4 has LESS impact on a trail than a sport 2 x 4, due to the "spreading" of the power to the driving wheels.
Better re-think that theory that it's the 4 x4's that are "killing" the trails.............they're not.
In June of this year, I participated in an ATV environmental impact study done by the United States Department of Agriculture, Forest Service.
This was a week long event in Washington State, northwest of Wenatchee. This was the final location in this study that was done nation-wide over the course of the last year.
Trails were carefully surveyed and variety of ATV's and tire types were used.
The first day was a setup day in which recording telemetry was attached to the ATV's to measure everything from speed to horizontal and lateral acceleration.
We ran cycles over several different trail surfaces with 2 x 4 and 4 x4 quads.........with stock tires......and the aggressive 589's.
After 40 "cycles" the computer laiden ATV's would be downloaded and measurements made of the trail surface and back out we'd go.
At the end of the week we'd completed in excess of 400 cycles.......and enough information gathered to open a library...........
If nothing else, it was abundantly clear that it is riding style, not type of quad, that causes damage to trails........AND......... that a utility 4 x 4 has LESS impact on a trail than a sport 2 x 4, due to the "spreading" of the power to the driving wheels.
Better re-think that theory that it's the 4 x4's that are "killing" the trails.............they're not.
#20
07-13-2005, 12:43 PM
Utility 4x4s are killing the trails
Guys,
My main point is this: The big UTES can traverse the trails in the heavy mud and they do. The sport machine CANNOT make it up these hills in the mud no matter the tires or power.
I personally don't really ride my trails when it's really muddy all the time because I don't want to ruin my own trails.
The difference is that the sports do damage, but not the kind of damage that make the trails impossible to traverse. Generally the corner get flat and burmed, not rutted and runied with a huge hump in the center.
And I'm sure most of you guys on the 4x4s are not like these few morons we deal with. And I can understand the fun in going out in the mud. But you can go out in the mud without killing the one-line trails.
My main point is this: The big UTES can traverse the trails in the heavy mud and they do. The sport machine CANNOT make it up these hills in the mud no matter the tires or power.
I personally don't really ride my trails when it's really muddy all the time because I don't want to ruin my own trails.
The difference is that the sports do damage, but not the kind of damage that make the trails impossible to traverse. Generally the corner get flat and burmed, not rutted and runied with a huge hump in the center.
And I'm sure most of you guys on the 4x4s are not like these few morons we deal with. And I can understand the fun in going out in the mud. But you can go out in the mud without killing the one-line trails.