I have no problem with the big utility quads for work, I just prefer the sport machines for fun. That said I am in no way being biased when I say they are wrecking the trails. There are now a couple hills we used to ride up that are all but impossible to climb now because of the guys on the big 4x4s going out on the mud and tearing the trails up. These things just keep getting bigger and heavier and more powerful, and the tires are getting more agressive.

I can tell you first hand that when a half-dozen of these things go up a one-line hill in the woods, in the mud, that hill is now useless to anyone on a normal ATV. My father on his 4x4 Scrambler took about 5 tries to finally get up this hill and it wasn't pretty. After my second failure to ride with one tire on either hump to straddle the huge ditches I gave up and went back. The trenches must be 10-12 inches deep at least and there is no other line on the trail.

People complain that it's the sport machines ripping the trails up, and in some senses that may be true, but at least we don't make them impassable for everyone else. I can appreciate the fun mud-flinging factor here and I'm no one to tell people not to ride. However, use common sense. Don't destroy it for other people. If it's so muddy that you are going to wreck the trails, don't ride in the trails. Go find a mud-pit and play there.

This has been an Internet rant.......have a nice day!

 

Like you said, there are posts by the utility crowd that say the sport bikes are tearing everything up and ruining the trails. Just depends on your point of view.

Where I live, it's those darn dirt bikes that are ruining everything. They make a groove up a hillclimb, and then when it rains (only rains in winter here), it causes a huge rain rut that leaves the hill unrideable for everyone. Thing is, those dirt bikes have been out there since the 60's (I was one of them), and we on ATV's are just the new kids on the block. I suppose there is a post somewhere in a dirt bike forum saying ATV's are ruining it for the dirt bikes.

I don't really get the industry trend in utilities, toward huge and heavy big bores, rather than lightness and agility. Plus, these machines seem to be very popular with the "senior citizen" crowd (got to have a huge big bore to haul that beer belly around!). Lots of folks are going to get killed on these things, and we are going to see a backlash over "safety", like we saw in the 3-wheeler days.

 

You must be a tree hugger , sent to stir the pot.

 

In June of this year, I participated in an ATV environmental impact study done by the United States Department of Agriculture, Forest Service.
This was a week long event in Washington State, northwest of Wenatchee. This was the final location in this study that was done nation-wide over the course of the last year.
Trails were carefully surveyed and variety of ATV's and tire types were used.
The first day was a setup day in which recording telemetry was attached to the ATV's to measure everything from speed to horizontal and lateral acceleration.
We ran cycles over several different trail surfaces with 2 x 4 and 4 x4 quads.........with stock tires......and the aggressive 589's.
After 40 "cycles" the computer laiden ATV's would be downloaded and measurements made of the trail surface and back out we'd go.
At the end of the week we'd completed in excess of 400 cycles.......and enough information gathered to open a library...........
If nothing else, it was abundantly clear that it is riding style, not type of quad, that causes damage to trails........AND......... that a utility 4 x 4 has LESS impact on a trail than a sport 2 x 4, due to the "spreading" of the power to the driving wheels.
Better re-think that theory that it's the 4 x4's that are "killing" the trails.............they're not.

 

No doubt...............Look at the new 800s. Just how fast do you need to go on a 800# lawn tractor anyway? Why not just get a sport? All it would take is for one to roll over on you and your done. Not to mention most of the beerbellyed utility riders I've seen don't wear helmets.

 

Hollywood- Most utilities now have selectable 2wd/4wd, so almost nobody is riding around in 4wd all day, and "spreading" that 800cc big bore power around between all 4 wheels. If you read posts from folks who have installed a Warn 424 on their full-time 4wd, it is the fact that they can now slide the back end, that they all say they love.

Perhaps utes are riden more conservatively because they appeal to an older demographic than sport bikes, and the machines are heavy and more clumsy.

 

Recon.......you're absolutely correct. The point is, when given the situation where 4x4 is an option in difficult terrain, impact is lessened......instead of having to power through (or up), spinning two tires, you have the option to use 3 or 4 contact patches.........and again......it's the riders choice.
The 800 cc quad only leaves as much of a "mark" as the rider decides to. An aggressive rider on a 300 cc ATV can do just as much damage as the bigger bikes.........we proved that !
There was an excellent point made in an earlier thread about dirt bikes and their impact being somewhat more noticable........and they're right........far more than most ATV's.
It all boils down to rider responsibility...........thats the bottom line.
It was our impression that the USDA, Forest Service was a bit surprised by the favorable conditions the trails were left in during this extensive study.
This information is going to have a direct influence on the future of open riding areas across the U.S.
.......But it all comes back to us as riders..........it all in the thumb.......and helmet.

 

The point is the hills:

On hills in the mud, these guys are using the 4x4 with lockers because it's the only way to get up the hill. And anyone who thinks the sport quads weighing 350-400lbs with two power wheels, is moving anywhere near the mud that these 700+ pound 4x4s with huge 26" mud tires are moving you need to re-do your study. It's not even a comparison in terms of volume.

I've watched these things dig huge trenches in the hillside, displacing hudreds of pounds of soil and leaving nothing but a gaping hole in it's path. You are left with two giant ruts that only other big 4x4s (or even a dirt bike) can traverse.

It's not about tree hugging, or defending anything.

As was pointed out above it's a scary industry trend with these things getting so big and so powerful. I'm sure stock-for-stock your basic Honda Recon 400 is not doing more damage than your basic YFZ450, on dry trails. But you put one of these big bore 700/800cc utes with huge mud flingers onto a wet trails and the damage is severe.

It's to the point on my Father's property that he is going to tell his 4x4 buddies to not go out in the mud on the hills at all. There are tons of other mud-bog areas to ride in this case there is no reason for them to have use those trails.

 

Sounds to me like you guys are just jealous. Maybe you should all go and get a 4x4 ute so you can have some real fun.
Just from my riding experience, I have seen the sports do far more damage. We on our grandpa machines crawl up the mud and slop why our fellow sport riders in the group have it WOT and digging trenches the whole way up just to make it where we can go. I guess its all in how you look at it.

 

Geeeeeeezzzuusssssss anyway.........
I'll preface my comments with the fact that everybody has a right to there own opinion,
not everybody has to like it or agree with it.
Sometime you have to agree to disagree.
My thoughts don't attack anybody, this is just discussion [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Like Hollywood said about the findings of that study........
You can't just blame the Utes for tearing up the hills.......
It is everybody..............
The Utes may have agressive tires and 4WD, they may throw some mud, dig some holes......
So do the sporties.....There tires are generally wider, with some pretty agressive tread also.
Sure the Utes weigh a little more....
How bout the sporties trying the hills over and over and over because they can't make it up????
How many times does it take for them to make it up the hill?????
hhhhhhmmmmmmm, many tries = lots of mud throwing also.........

You say "I have no problem with the big utility quads for work, I just prefer the sport machines for fun"

So what does that mean? Utes should only do work, they have no right going up hills for fun???
If a Sportie can use the hill or trail, why can't a Ute?

What if I were to say
"I have no problem with sporties on the race track or the dunes, but I like Utes for fun. But keep the sporties off the trails, they tear them up".

I've been on trails that suck because the motorcycles have made a single track rut, Ive been on trails that suck because jeeps and trucks have put big ruts in and are wider than my quad, I've been on quad trails that suck because there are ruts.
I've been on freeways that suck because semi-trucks have made them bumpy due to their weight (due to crappy materials), so the big rig drivers should be considerate and keep off the freeways.......geeeeezzzzzzzz

Bottom line is deal with it, and learn to ride those hills. I ride with some pretty dang good sportie riders that there isn't much that can stop them. Sure some of the riding is pretty dang challenging, and maybe even some they can't get through, but they have fun trying (most of the time).

If these hills you are talking about are on your fathers property, then by all means you have the right to keep certain folks (or quads) from ruining them. That is your right.
But don't tell anybody to not ride in certain areas that they can legally ride, because you don't like it.

Now that I've probably thoroughly P'd you off.......

I will agree with you that ALL riders need to respect ALL riders, no mattter what you ride (or how many wheels you have).
ALL riders need to respect the environment and "Tread Lighty".

But you say "There are tons of other mud-bog areas to ride <u>in this case there is no reason for them to have use those trails</u>"

If they have the right to use "those trails", you have no right to say they there is no reason for them to use them (unless fo course it is your private property).

There are many things in life that are challenging for one person, one group, one vehicle, due to the way somebody or something affects that particular thing.
We have options when challenged with these situation. It's how we handle these challenges that makes us.
Sometimes we can persevere and beat the challenge, sometime we can't.
Sometimes we can make it up that hill, sometimes we can't.......

None of this probably makes sense, so I better go to bed.

Good Luck