<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: TLCSport ATVs just can,t sell here even the show rooms have none on the floor.</end quote></div>

Exactly the opposite here in So. Calif. This is sport quad country! Most places, you are at a huge disadvantage on a large heavy ute, and I fear the same disadvantage will apply to the 700XX!

In the old days, ute riders were considered redneck hillbillies, and I just can't get that out of my mind. I am actually uncomfortable being on a ute for that reason.

Utes did finally catch on with the hunters and a few like me who deliberately go looking for terrifying terrain, and for some reason around here they seem to attract the senior citizen set.....but, what utility market there was here has gotten gobbled up by the Rhinos. Rhinos are huge, and lots of guys have $20,000+ dumped into theirs. Plus, people who would never consider riding a quad or dirt bike, are willing to go Rhino. And once again, Honda is late getting to the side-by-side party!!!

 

The Rhino type machines are not doing well here also, some of the trails you do not have a inch to spare on each side on a ATV let alone a side by side.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: TLCsome of the trails you do not have a inch to spare on each side on a ATV let alone a side by side.</end quote></div>

Same here in the mountains, and again here I think the 700XX will be at a disadvantage because it is on the bulky/heavy side. My friends who have KFX 700's won't ever ride with me on these trails, and big utes really have their hands full.

But, in some places the Rhino guys try to squeze down the trail anyway. The result is that what once was motorcycle single track gets turned into quad single track (so the dirt bikers hate us quadders), and the Rhino's come along and turn that into a wide fire road (so both the dirt bikers and quadders hate the Rhinos!).

There are 50" wide barriers that are intended to keep the Rhinos out, but they pull them down. I have seen it almost come to blows when dirt bikes meet a Rhino on the trail!

 

reconranger: i hop you dont mind but im gonna rearrange your words on this one and make a statement all my own.


DIRTBIKES BLOW [img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: reconranger

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: TLCHonestly I have see hundreds of ATVs on our trail and the only sport ATV I see was a very few Scramblers and I seen those get towed out because a boulder knock the chain off of broke the sprocket. Sport ATVs just can,t sell here even the show rooms have none on the floor.</end quote></div>



Exactly the opposite here in So. Calif. This is sport quad country! Most places, you are at a huge disadvantage on a large heavy ute, and I fear the same disadvantage will apply to the 700XX!



In the old days, ute riders were considered redneck hillbillies, and I just can't get that out of my mind. I am actually uncomfortable being on a ute for that reason.



Utes did finally catch on with the hunters and a few like me who deliberately go looking for terrifying terrain, and for some reason around here they seem to attract the senior citizen set.....but, what utility market there was here has gotten gobbled up by the Rhinos. Rhinos are huge, and lots of guys have $20,000+ dumped into theirs. Plus, people who would never consider riding a quad or dirt bike, are willing to go Rhino. And once again, Honda is late getting to the side-by-side party!!!</end quote></div>

I live in Upstate NY and this place has a lot of trails and areas that Utes are made for.......I would not say it is sport quad country like SoCal is, but there are still more than one might think.

But I still see a TON of sport machines..... sure it's probably a 60/40 split that I see on the trails and in trucks, maybe even closer to 75/25 if you count the hunters and farmers into the mix........as far as pure riders go there are still a ton of sport machines with solid axles and low ground clearance......... and a lot of great riders who know how to use them...

I find that people with Utes are on one because they just have no idea how to ride a sport machine, or don't want to be bothered with shifting or leaning. This is not a put-down but is just a difference in riding style.

 

The answer to the sport vs utility dilema is to own both...and some dirt bikes too!

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: 330X=]

reconranger: i hop you dont mind but im gonna rearrange your words on this one and make a statement all my own.


DIRTBIKES BLOW [img][/img][img][/img][img][/img][img][/img]</end quote></div>

I don't think I would go so far as to say dirt bikes blow. I would agree that dirt bike elitist blow. Or any one else that starts thinking that they are an elite group, and have more right to public land than someone else.

We have had several trails nearby where I live that have had those 50" wide gates spring up, and signs that say "ATVs only". The problem I have with that is that at my age I remember those ATV only trails as Jeep roads that have been there for 50 years. Since when did a road that has been used for 50 years by everybody suddenly become an "ATV only" trail. Since the ATVers started thinking they were an elite group, and since they got a politician to agree to the signs and gates.

There is something that gets forgotten all to often, ... respect for others! Obviously, if you have a Rhino, don't take it down a single track motorcycle path that motorcyclist have spent years developing. But lets not start closing public land to off road vehicle users based on what type of vehicle they have. That becomes a slipperly slope. The first thing we do is close roads to side by sides, then it is just one more step to close roads to all motorized vehicles, and we're all screwed.

and as for Honda and their 700XX, which was the real topic of this thread. Honda needs to retire their whole upper level management team that is in charge of vehicle design. They need new blood in their company in a bad way, and some people that have a more realistic vision of what the buyer needs.

DV

 

Good point Viper......

Honda has always rested on their accomplishments too long. But they are such a diversified company it is hard to imagine that new blood would make a difference. Perhaps they need to split the ATV division into sport and utility in order to get R&D money to each place. But like most companies they put the most R&D into what sells most, and utility ATVs still make up the vast majority of sales.

Suzuki and Yamaha spend more time/money on their sport machines, they always have. Honda created the great 250R and since then everything else has been based off that design. Obviously there is nothing wrong with the 400ex, and 450R machines today, but both have had far less attention paid to them then Suzuki and Yamaha have paid to their sport machines.

But Honda builds for reliability, and they let the buyer add on parts from there. The have learned that no matter what they do, the racer and speed nuts are going to tear it apart anyway and make it their own. That is what makes them so great and popular.... people know the reliability is going to be there as a starting platform.

 

If the 700XX market niche that Honda was aiming for is the big bore utility rider who is looking for something more sporty, do you all think that this is a market where this machine will sell???

 

No. I do not think the 700XX will sell to big bore utility riders looking for something more sporty. If it were the exact same machine, with the same weight, same size, same suspension, but had four wheel drive, with either a low range transmission or a compound low first gear in the existing transmission, shaft drive at both ends, instead of chain drive, ... then ... I don't think they could make enough of them. What is Honda doing with chain drive on this big pig anyway? It looks like they are copying a two wheel drive Scrambler that was designed 15 years ago.

I think big bore utility riders still want four wheel drive in their "something more sporty". Can Am already makes it, in both a 500cc and an 800cc version, ... its called a Renegade.