garyc660 very good point on that last post.

 

KX.....true, HP is a derivative of torque, but less torque = less hp at any given rpm.

 

garyc thats not necessarily true,i've seen combinations where motors have made serious horsepower with a good amount of torque.then change the combination on that same motor and lose horsepower figures but gain torque.
take deisel engines for example:lots of torque no horsepower.
you can have more torque then horsepower,it's been done time and time again on all sorts of motors.it's all in the combination.

 

torque- amount of work that can be done

horsepower- speed at which the work gets done.

 

I see you've now changed your confontational tune so you can chastize me. I guess that was your way of "asking" me about it? Kinda a strange way to phrase a question that you want a civilized answer to.

As you may know, I was a top 10 poster here for a very long time. Due to people like you (you didn't used to be this way, maybe the constant bickering has hardened you as well?), I visit here very seldom anymore, and post even less - as have many other of the really sharp folks that used to frequent the board back in the day.

As you may also know, I run the 400EX e-mail list, which has a lot of really good members exchanging a lot of good info without all the blind brand loyalty and smack talk crap that goes on over here - if that crap even gets started, the member gets set to "moderated". It's really refreshing. Personally I'm a Yamaha, Suzuki, Honda, and soon to be Cannondale owner, they've all got their good and bad points.

My current setup is a lightened JE 416 10.8:1 piston (what piston were you running? some don't offer the "advertised" compression), XR cam (since I race in the woods), FCR carb, Sparks X-4 exhaust, Mild port & cleanup work & polished chamber, and heavy duty cam chain since my original had stretched to the point of retarding the cam timing many degrees.

Adding the carb was like doing the piston and cam mod all over again. Adding the pipe gave a very healthy boost to the bottom and mid. I've had Raptor owners that have ridden it tell me that it is stronger than the 440's they've ridden. I don't know why you, given what we know about the HP, torque, weight, and design of these machines - find it hard to believe that I could possibly hang with or maybe even outrun a Raptor, given my mods.

Yes it runs night and day differently than a stocker, yes, I could do much better in the drags if I went to a bigger cam - however, like I said, stock and even piped Raptors don't put out all that much power & I've seen them outrun by 400EX's in various states of modification - many times. In fact, at the sand drags, many Raptor owners will only line up once before they decide that dragging maybe isn't the Raptor's strong point.

I've also seen a 406EX with exactly the same setup as mine, except a WB R-series pipe and more aggressive cam, spank me, and even come back from behind (a bad holeshot) to beat piped Raptors.

I don't have anything against the Raptor other than Yamaha could have done so much more with it. Well, that and the attitude of many (but not all) Raptor owners. It seems that the Raptor attracts the casual rider that has to have the "Biggest & Baddest" & many times, that brings a certain attitude along.

If you've not seen modified 400EX's walk away from Raptors, you haven't ridden with vary many or participated in many sand drags (or other drags). I see it every time I go to the dunes. Also, if you've participated in an XC race, you'd also know that there are usually some nice long straights in the 5 to 15 mile long courses, it's not all tight twisties.

If you noticed this post originally had nothing to do with Raptors outrunning 400's or vice versa. We were looking at stock HP levels that we've seen in various dyno readings and discussing them. I used my 400 as an example to make an entirely different point related to cannondale quads - I guess my mistake to mention a 400EX and Raptor with Gary watching.

As for me, I know for a fact that the 400EX is not the fastest machine out there or the machine with the most potential for HP - the Banshee's prove that every time at the drags. It is, however an excellent, well rounded platform that with a few properly placed mods, can be very competitive with the big bore machines. Heck yeah, if you start modifying the two engines the Raptor will be the easy winner. That's not what this thread was about though.

BTW - I'm going to have to go with Gary on the HP/Torque issue. The formula that you derive HP from dictates that if you have less torque at a given RPM you WILL have less HP at that same RPM.

KX - I think you are confusing the issue with peak HP and peak torque... Sure, peak HP numbers can go down while peak torque numbers go up. RPM plays a very important part in the equasion.

Well, I've spent way too much time on this crap - back to the other ATV info sources that don't waste as much of my time....

 

Question on these TORQUE count nots hp B, if you'd had 1000lb pounds of torque in a motor that went 120 rpm you have...


a REALLY slow quad... there HAS to be signifingant HP output from a motor to be useful for work OR acceleration.

 

maybe we need something a little less controversial than horsepower...

lets see a thread comparing price and weight of current production sport quads...stick to advertised weights and prices!

i wonder which one is selling the most metal for the money? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
whose selling you the least metal for the money?(any guesses?)[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]

maybe we ought to include to include utility, sport utility, and kids quads too?
i don't know any of the numbers(or care too much) or i'd start it myself!

 

Speed Shootout post, although dated this confirms some of the claims being made in here and discredits others.............

Shootout post

 

This list needs to be updated now that the Predator is out with 45rwhp and 415 pounds.................

 

I got to thinking I sure don't remember this thread and then I looked at the date.

Chet[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]