Either way, I'd bet money that the top 5 are REALLY the 5 2-strokers. Depending on the true weight and HP of 'zilla and the Banshee, The Tecate 4 may actually be No. 1...or 3rd at the very lowest without a doubt. I'll stick to the C-dale brochure for the quads mentionned in it. And they all drop from your numbers according to what it says.

 

the tecate 4 put out 41 (or was it 42) horsepower from the factory. i read that in an old magazine.

 

at the crank, right?? That seems high for the rear wheel...on a stock 250.

 

DSAPP - the low figures you just posted are from a Superflow dyno - I was assuming by the rest of the figures you posted, you were going by dynojet typical readings...

Superflow numbers are always lower than Dynojet (Superflow is what Cannondale uses, from what I understand it's a more sophisticated system than the Dynojets). So, lets keep this apples to apples and stick to Dynojet numbers since they're the easiest numbers to come across...

2stroke - I've seen 44HP or so from a couple different sources for the upper level Cannondales. I've seen around 37hp or so from dynojet readings on stock cannibals... If you've seen a cannibal race a moto, you'd know that the Moto's are developing more power.

I have a 400EX that's in the upper 30's - although I've never had it dyno'd that's where it should be, and it will typically outrun piped Raptors, so I'm pretty confident that's what it's really putting out. A stock Cannibal will run away from me in the drags - which also seems to support the numbers I've seen.

I know the C-Dales really respond well to exhaust systems, especially if mapped properly to match the exhaust.

I've also seen Cannibals and DS650's run away from stock banshee's, TRX250R's, ATC250Rs, and LT250R's. I also own a basically stock 86 ATC250R - Back when these machines were new and stock, they were not all that fast. I am very confident the top 5 stock production machines are not the 2 strokes - although after being modded, they had tons of potential.

 

Sorry, ATC250R

I wasn't aware that DSAPP used Dynojet or that the HP readings would be different from one to the other. Plus my assumption on the top 5 being 2 strokes is based on HP to weight ratios...not neccessarily top speed... depending on where the HP peaks.

 

The Moto will have more HP due to it's engine mapping is different than the Cannibal and Speed's mapping. The neat thing is you can download the Moto map for the Cannibal and it will put out the same HP, they are the same motor.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif[/img]

 

<< I have a 400EX that's in the upper 30's - although I've never had it dyno'd that's where it should be, and it will typically outrun piped Raptors >>

OK, all of these piped Raptors are getting spanked by your upper 30's 400ex? Be careful on that beast.

 

Grow up a little Gary...

I used to think you were a pretty decent guy. How on earth did I know that when I saw your username in my e-mail notification today that you'd be taking a shot at me.

Yes, I have outrun piped Raptors in the sand drags. Yes I have outrun them in the straights at XC races. Contrary to popular opinion, Raptors are not that fast, even when piped. I was really disappointed the first time I rode one, coming off my XR cammed and 10.8:1 stock piped 416 at the time. I really thought it would rip. I don't understand why you have such a hard time believing that a 400EX can keep up with and even outrun a Raptor, maybe it's that you never figured out to check the throttle adjustment on yours and you were down a bunch on power - look at some race results sometime, there are plenty out there now. GNCCracing.com is a good site, pro production or 4 stroke modified classes are good ones to check.

I don't know if I mentioned it in this thread or not, but usually I'll get the holeshot and hold my own from there. If I don't get the holeshot (Raptors don't holeshot that great), it's usually a really close race and can go either way. Not bad for a an &quot;old tech, air cooled tractor&quot; with less than 1K dumped into the engine against a quad that's got 5 valves (woohoo!), liquid cooling, 260cc's more displacement and dual carbs (woohoo!, again).

I guess I haven't run up against many of the 50+ hp CT piped Raptors out of the magazines, only the more realistic upper 30's low 40's ones. I find it amusing that me and my 400 seem to offend you so much that you've got to make smarta** replies to practically anything I say on these boards - I guess I'd be pretty touchy too if I were in your shoes with such a &quot;superior&quot; but flawed machine (I like your sig by the way).

BTW - how's that tranny, starter clutch, upper control arms, axle, stock clutch, and carb boots all holding up [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] -- I wouldn't worry about them, it's all just people trying to make the Raptor look bad - heck, even Yamaha doesn't acknowledge the problems and denies warranty claims on the mentioned items. Just don't ride that thing too hard, I've seen lots of folded upper control arms, even sent one of the guys to the hospital for the day, he layed on the track KO'd with the medics for several of the 9 mile laps before they could get him in the meat wagon... Kinda scary, eh. Luckily it happened at a race, where medical personnel were on hand..

Sorry for clogging up this thread with a rant, guys... Gary's been pushing this for a long time. Maybe he'll delete it and ban my username since he is &quot;Quad Patrol&quot; and all....

 

It's surprising how blurry the difference between horsepower and torque is. The literal definition of horsepower is the force required to lift 550 pounds of weight one foot in one second. Since engines don't have four legs, we can't directly measure their horsepower. What we can measure, is how much twisting force (torque) they create. Horsepower is just a calculated value taken from torque. Horsepower = (torque x RPM) / 5252. If you look at any dyno graph, you'll see that the torque curve crosses the horsepower curve at exactly 5,252 RPM, and this simple mathematical formula is the reason why. When manufacturers publish power claims, they can get away with only printing the peak torque @ RPM figure, but &quot;horsepower&quot; is such a well-known term that it is deemed more effective in terms of advertising hype.
now if you can understand that,you'll understand why some machines with less horsepower are faster then others with more horsepower, typically being some of the fourstrokes, like the raptor don't have alot of horsepower,but in essance has alot of torque.that is what accelerates your machine.
horsepower numbers mean absolutely nothing,it's torque figures that propell you.so all this argueing over horspower numbers is quite frivolous.
show me what the torque ratings are? thats what i want to know!![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]

 

Short straights and twisty racing/riding are one thing, but when you come off with something hard to believe, I don't mind asking you about it.....just as you probably would myself.
As I have stated before, the Raptor is not superior.....have you read my sig lately? My carb boots have blown off before, and before it's all over my tranny will probably blow on the Raptor. Actually, the Raptor is a short-timer......I don't like the way Yamaha won't stand behind their flawed first year effort with the Raptor and don't plan on buying another Yamaha....Yamahas loss I say.
Your 416 must be much faster than the 416 I owned....mine had the same compression, larger cam, an DMC exhaust system, and the stock carb. YOu have the FCR and stock exhaust right? Seems like my old 400ex and your 400ex would be very close in performance....my old 400ex would jump a stock Banshee a couple of lengths....when I shifted into 4th gear the Banshee would rip by. My Raptor jumps this same Banshee and easily walks away.....my point is, seemingly unrealistic posts will be questioned. A simple explanation as to why your 400ex is faster than most similar-modded 400ex's would be welcome.
Gabe, you seem to be a knowledglible, good guy......why not post more to help fellow 400ex riders out? Why always post in a confrontational manner? It seems if there is'nt a 400ex agruement or a good chance to slam the Raptor, you don't have the need to post. Why be so stiff, one dimensional, and uptight all the time?