The z400 responds to bolt-on mods a lot better than the 400ex (as I previously stated) BUT if you are more concerned with extreme low-end torque the 400ex has gobs of it.

In Michigan, I got the Z400 for $5150+tax. Around that time, the 400ex was advertised for $4999, but the scumbag dealerships gave me a schpeel about "Honda tacks on a $700 service and delivery charge". Not all dealership will pull that kind of garbage, so you should be able to find a 400ex for less than $5000. I would have a Red 400ex if the dealers around here didn't suck. I still love my Z

 

1986atc250r- I'll check the thumb throttle adjustment but I am sure that its where it should be.
However out of the two quads the Kawasaki is definatley the faster machine. But thanks for the
heads up on the throttle adjustment.

 

i looked on both suzuki and honda websites and they both say they retail at $5699. Corpsie, where in michigan did you find these quads for that cheap?

 

ATVmadman,


http://abernathyonline.com/ ...........2003 400ex's $4450.00 out the door with no add on cost

 

Check out the newest ATV Sport mag. They did a great shootout with all the sport quads, very well done. They tell you all the good and bad for each quad. Electronic drag races insteat of hearsay, actual wet weights, lots of usable info.
To me the modern motor, reverse, handling and price of the Z was impossible to pass up.
The cost of hop ups for it are coming down fast and will soon be no more then 400EX parts. Supply and demand, lots of Z's out there now and lots of aftermarket jumping at the business.
There is nothing about the 400EX better then the Z, but lots better on the Z then the 400EX.
Unless you find a 400EX for about $1000 off MSRP,
Get the Z, you'll love it.

 

$5150 for the Z was at Pro Source Suzuki in/near Techumseh, Michgan http://www.prosourcesuzuki.com/
If you work for Ford, maybe GM, maybe Chrysler they sell to you at/near invoice.

Those honda prices were advertised in the free "bikes for sale" booklets that are at autosupply and grocery stores. Since that was last June, I have since thrown the ads away.

The prices aren't MSRP, they're what the dealers were selling them for. I'd never pay MSRP.

 

I disagree 1986atc250R

The Z can be bored to 453cc or stroked to 500cc. I have yet to hear of a 500ex.

The Z has reverse which you forgot to mention.

The Z doesn't cost any more than any other quad to mod.

I KILL modded exs with my mods.

I'm putting down about 41 HP to the wheel, what a totally, completely raced out 440EX with ALL the mods does.

400ex are all over the place cheap because they are getting routed by the competition. I went to the dealer today. They had tons of Z's, KFX's and everything under the sun at Roseville cycle. They even had KFX700's and a lot of 250 and 300ex's. They did not stock a single 400ex. It is not a quad to have any longer. Out of the 500 Honda, Kawi and Suzuki quads there, no 400 ex on the premisis.

 

The Z can be bored to 453cc or stroked to 500cc. I have yet to hear of a 500ex.

??? There have been people building "500EX's" for years. See Chad Duvall, Pro Production GNCC racer for details.

The Z cannot be bored to 453cc... OK, well, it could, but you will end up with serious problems due to sleeving into the water jacket. If you don't know what I'm talking about, do a little research.

BTW, what size piston yeilds 453cc? By my calculations a 96mm piston (6mm overbore) would yeild 450cc. It would take a 96.3mm piston to yeild 453cc - aftermarket pistons are typically sold in whole number sizes.

The Z's cylinder is also plated aluminum. Meaning if you bore it you have to re-plate it, or sleeve it with a cast iron sleeve. Not nearly as simple as boring and dropping a piston in.


The Z has reverse which you forgot to mention.

That is a non issue unless you're getting it for the wife to ride.



The Z doesn't cost any more than any other quad to mod.

Actually, it does if you compare to the 400EX.

Pistons cost the same, but as mentioned before, you have to deal with the plated cylinder which will definitely cost you more than simply boring a cast iron sleeve. This is one reason you don't see modern 2 strokes in dirtbikes overbored very often.

You have an additional camshaft to deal with.

You have to deal with expensive rev-limiter issues. The 400EX rev-limiter issue costs about $80 to deal with, it costs several hundred to fix the Z last I checked.

The carb is junk - worse than the stock 400EX carb. Will have to be replaced sooner than the 400EX in the modification heiarchary. In fact, I'll give you a little secret - one performance mod for the Z400 is to use a 400EX carburetor.

These are just a few examples....

Now, why don't you look up replacement parts cost on your Z vs the 400EX. For the difference in replacement parts cost alone a person can afford to add tons of mods and still end up spending less on the 400EX in the long run.


I KILL modded exs with my mods.

Wow, I've never heard that on these forums before....

Here on the net, no one's ever been beaten, the person posting always "Kills" other quads, etc....

I'm not going to sit here an tell you that I "KILL" modified Z's on a daily basis, but I will tell you I don't fear them at the track or drag strip with my 400.


I'm putting down about 41 HP to the wheel, what a totally, completely raced out 440EX with ALL the mods does.

400EX's top out at 41hp??? That's news to me. I have a mildly modified 400EX that might give you a run. Unfortunately we'll never know because we live so far apart. However, I will tell you that it will outrun my Cannondale Cannibal, and it will run right with my stepfather's Cannondale Moto.

The reality is that 40ish HP is the easily attainable point on the 400EX. It takes fairly heavy mods to get much beyond 45hp, but it is done fairly frequently.

Depending on what you're looking to do, the 400EX will always put out more bottom end torque than a Z400. The Z400 will typically always put out more top end than a 400EX. This is due to the design of the engine - specifically the stroke.

400ex are all over the place cheap because they are getting routed by the competition.

Hmmm.... You obviously don't attend anything but drag races.

This is acutally an inside joke around some of my friends. Several of us still race our outdated, slow, junk 400EX's - the amazing thing is we still win races, we joke about it because according to the magazines and people on internet forums the 400EX's should be back with the Warriors & Blasters....

In the cross country, flat track, and MX races I attend, I still see more Honda's ending up in the front than Z's. Does that mean that the Honda is better than the Z? Not necessarily, there are still more Hondas out there - however it does mean that maybe, just maybe, the 400EX isn't as bad as the magazines & owners of the "new quads" try to make it out to be.

They even had KFX700's and a lot of 250 and 300ex's. They did not stock a single 400ex. It is not a quad to have any longer. Out of the 500 Honda, Kawi and Suzuki quads there, no 400 ex on the premisis.

Wow, that must ovbiously means the 400EX is junk. Still carry 250 and 300EX's, eh, but no longer 400's.... Wow, talk about outdated, the 400EX now doesn't even rank up there with a 250 or 300EX. How about a Warrior? I bet people are still paying $4600 for Warriors and won't even consider a 400EX, aren't they?

Give me a break - sarcasm aside...

The reality of the deal is that Suzuki needs consumer perception. They pay big dollars to the magazines to get it, maybe not by bribe for article direct payments, but payments for full page ads. The Mag guys aren't stupid, they know what they need to do to stroke the big boys that pay big dollars for ads (have you ever seen what Dirtwheels gets even for their smallest ads per month?) and to keep the "excitement" level up for new quads.

Part of this consumer perception also comes from the liquid cooling and perceived performance of the "DRZ" engine, which in reality, in the quad, is only putting down about 2 to 3 more HP than a 400EX (stock for stock of course).

The rest of the reality is that in casual trail riding and even most forms of racing, you are not going to win more races, beat your buddies more often on either quad - because they are so close in performance.

If you're only concerned with which is going to give the edge in performance with bolt ons the Z400 is probably the ticket (I say that because ultimately, the 400EX still has more available mods if you really want to get crazy in the engine). However, if you are mostly concerned with acceleration, you need to be looking at a 2 stroke quad or a bigbore 4 stroke like the DS, Predator, or Raptor - not a 400 class machine. 400 class machines are all about handling, agility, and delivering enough performance to get the job done --- either the Z, KFX, or the 400EX will shine at this.

My whole point to writing this up is not to bash the Z400, it's an excellent competitor - it is however, to provide a counterpoint to the current perception of the masses and provide some solid reasons why a 400EX is still an excellent choice, especially given the current perceptions of the masses - meaning that you can buy nice ones really cheap right now.

Do I have anything to gain by this? Absolutely not, actually, the worse the 400EX sells the better off we all are (unless you are trying to sell one) - It will prompt Honda to develop & release a replacement & it makes them cheap for stupid people like myself to buy them up & have practice bikes, wife bikes, spare race bikes, etc. Personally, I'd like to see the price for a decent used one to come down to $1000 dollars, then I could have a machine in the garage sitting ready to go for each type of racing I do.

If cost of purchase, cost of ownership (replacement parts cost), etc were all the same for either a 400EX or Z400, heck yes, I'd not even consider a 400EX when looking at the two. Fortunately, this is not the case, 400EX's can be found MUCH cheaper than Z's and cost significantly less to maintain.

Heck, I just stole another 400ex a couple days ago from a new LTZ owner. Excellent condition, pipe, pro pegs, piston'd & cammed for $2800 OTD. I can build it into twice the machine a stock Z is for less than a stock Z costs....

 

We just spent all day Sat. riding trails. Out of the 5 quads, the 400ex was the only quad without reverse. Trust me when I tell you, when you are out in a group exploring new areas and trails, not having Reverse is a BIG TIME inconvience. We spent a lot of time turning that 400ex around in tight quaters. The quads with reverse could just back up into the ruffage and turn around, not so with the ex.


Is this why several years ago all of the Mags said that the 400ex was the Best?
I have been through this debate several times before. The 400ex set the standard by which all modern day quads are guaged against. The Magazines have always and contunue to like quads that are good all around performers. Not necessarily the Fastest or the Quickest, but offer a Balance of all aspects of riding. This is why they like the Z400/KFX400. It is, for the purpose of argument, the 400ex of today.

The addvertiving $$$ argument doesn't play itself out to be the Big Concpiracy that everyone makes it out to be. If that were the case, Honda would be the Mags top pick in every catagory since their addvertizing budget is the biggest. Not to mention that Polaris has dumped dollars equil to the budget of several small Countries into their addvertizing, and still don't seem to be getting the recognition that the new Predator deserves. I know all about the argument that the mags don't like Polaris, but if we go by the "Money buys Praise" theory, last time I checked Polaris's money is Green too.

Last but not least, this is how it works. The Manufacturers pay the Magazine for addvetizing, The Magazine then sells the mag to the public, thus returning a profit to the Magazine. Now WAIT, before you start in with the argument about how the Magazine makes all their money from the adds, you are partialy right, but you can't have one without the other. What I mean by that is that if no one buys the magazine, then there would be no reason for the Manufacturer to buy add space in it. Simply put, they won't spend the money buying adds if no one is going to see it.

Now let me get off of my Soap Box, and say that the 400ex is and always will be a Great machine. They are in part, largely responsible for all of the choices we have today. With that said, they are cheaper to mod "Right Now". Who knows, 5 to 10 years from now the Z/KFX's may be a lot cheaper to mod than they are now too.

 

1986atc250r,
You make a lot of good points in you post, I don't agree with everything you said, but most seamed about right. People looking to buy a new quad these days have all of that info and more, and Z's are outselling 400EX's by a huge margin, why? The same things that have been said over and over,
(1) Reverse - nothing funnier then some goober straining to pick up his quad and turn it around, because reverse is a non issue - LOL
(2) More power
(3) More power potential from the same mods (Modern engine)
(4) the aftermarket is booming with new Z parts, supply and demand, the price is dropping and will soon be about the same as 400EX parts, possibly even lower in a few years if they keep selling Z's/KFX's the way they are now
The list goes on but you get the drift, who is going to buy a new 400EX at the same price as a new Z?
They are very similar machines; the Z is just a little better in almost every possible comparison. Makes for a fairly easy decision for most perspective buyers.