A stock YZ426 has 48 HP, which is very good for a m/c four-stroke. A Suzuki DRZ puts down 38 HP, which again is very, good for a trail bike. And for anybody who cares (not making fun) an XR400 has 32 hp, which was good back in 1990.

 

That information makes one wonder what happened to the Raptor's motor. Shame on Yamaha for thier decision to use the 660. In my opinion.

 

The real world Gabe? OK, what about the race track.Lets look past MX(that small segment), what about GNCC? What has the DRZ done there? Mike Kiedrowski ran a fully worked DRZ last year (which burned a clutch a race by the way)What was his best finish last year Gabe? Mike is on an RM250 this year,with only a couple races so far, whats his best finish? The DRZ was meant to compete with the XR, it is a happy, fat, heavy trail bike.Heck it wasn't even meant to compete with the WR let alone a 250, it is a user friendly fluffy trail bike and thats what the quad will be.I didn't tell you your mom stinks, i'm just being honest and not giving credit where it isn't due.

 

That number for the 426 sounds a tad high, most dyno runs I've seen put it closer to 43-44 hp, but they improve on it every year, so....

The other two sound close.

The Raptor at 36-37 HP leaves a lot to be desired out of that large of a powerplant & the problems that come with a physically large engine.

 

Again, I said look at the REAL WORLD, at normal every day racers - not the pro's riding totally trick custom rides. I also stated that the DRZ is not a MX bike. MX isn't the lone measure of a bike's ability at all. I was also noting the engine attributes of the DRZ in racing I mentioned - the holeshot and acceleration - I wasn't concerned with it's chassis or suspension (which I hear is probably not great, but descent) becuase the engine is the only thing the quad would share with the bike.

You completely failed to respond to my quad references and tried to turn this back around to bikes again. Again, I say it's useless to argue with you, you continue to twist things and not look at the facts objectively.

If they stuck a DRZ engine in a 400EX chassis, it WOULD be every bit and/or more capable of racing as any other stock quad ever made available... Sure, it will never be as lightweight as a 250 class 2 stroke, but again, weight is not the sole measure of a bike's race worthiness. Things such as usuable power, rideable power, smooth power - all of which translates into a less fatigued rider - which translates into faster lap times, especially in long races. Why don't you suppose you don't see Banshee engined 250R's dominating open class racing? Some day you will wake up and see that both 2 and 4 stroke engines have their good points and bad.

The fact is that the DRZ400 engine is a modern, very oversquare, high compression, wild cammed, FCR carb'd, powerful 4 stroke that is capable of putting out 40hp with only jetting, intake, and exhaust mods, which is what a WR does with the same mods - and it does so with a wider, less peaky powerband (remember the dyno runs I posted?).

Once again... I'm done. If you must get the last word in (as usual), feel free....

 

By the way, Kiedrowski won the Elsinore GP on that DRZ. The Suzuki guys [Kiedrowski, Hatch and Smith] are all riding the DRZ out west in the new WORCS series.
Comparing bikes and quads and how their technology translates when you swap platforms is by no means a science. There is obviously much less difference between a 250R and a 400EX than there is between a CR250 and an XR400.
What is a "real racer"? Is it a quad with a 2000 KX250 engine or the same platform with a massaged 15 year old, CR250 derived engine? You would think that Kawasaki would have a huge advantage in the GNCC's over the 250R based quads. Balance could'nt win the title on the Kawasaki, switched back to Honda last year and won.
The best quad race I ever saw was between Gust and Goodman in the Pro-Am class, Red Bud/1999. Goodman was on a Laeger YZ400 based quad and Gust was on a TC prepped 416 [stock frame]. It was a great see-saw affair with Goodman pulling out the victory. I'm pretty sure an XR400 would not have fared as well against a YZ400.
I think the best example in the motorcycle industry of how little technology matters would be Harley and how they continue to dominate dirt track racing year after year. It's all about application and circumstance.

Hey Gabe,
I am out in Scottsdale, AZ now. Finally getting back online now that the move and work are becoming a little more tolerable. One of my buddies back in Indiana said some ATV Connection people are planning a trip to Little Sahara? Are you going? When is it? They want to go and have me meet them there. I'll be talking to you . -Rob

 

Gabe, the motor will come from the bike, so using that as a point of referance seems pretty valid doesn't it? Point is a DRZ isn't a racer, and I have done my job proving that point.I know its easy to be optimistic about what is more likely to be in our future and lie to ourselves to make ourselvs happy, but I refuse to do that.I know its not the easiest thing, but I will recognize everything for what it is, and the "new" 4strokes, as good as they are for 4strokes, still fall short of already proven 2strokes and the DRZ falls below all of them."Wide power" "usable power" blah,blah, i'm not a beginner and am fully capable of using a more aggressive powerband to my advantage, don't give me slower revs and more weight for "usable power".The new Quadsport will be a nice trail quad with electric start and reverse and weigh 380-390 LBS and i'm sure will be popular and fun, but it won't be a racer.You can cut the fenders and call it what you want, but the ATV world will still be waiting for a real racer.

 

I really wonder who is trying to fool who, here. The 400EX kicks *** just about everywhere it goes. Walsh Racecraft framed YZ400's and 426's are doing pretty good in the pro ranks. I just watched Yamaha's little 250 four stroke motocrosser win a heat. Honda's XR650 absolutely rules any desert race it enters. You don't see a Banshee without serious mods doing well in any form of racing.
I am a two-stroke fan myself, that is why I will keep my TRX250R and Banshee. BUT, if Honda comes out with something new, I will be in line for the very first one that comes to my dealer on the second production year. Same would go for a Kawi or Suzi. If nothing new shows up, I will start looking for a clean 400EX.
The thing that I think you are missing is that what works well in a dirt bike, does not necessarily work well for a quad. Case in point is the Doug Roll framed KX 250 motor. It is not doing as well as some had expected/hoped. I think that Honda's 650 motor is a natural for a quad, and would make a better motor foundation than the other big bore thumpers that are currently available, although I would perfer a motor like the soon to be released 450. I really don't think that it will happen. I really believe that Honda intended the 650 to make its way into a quad starting from day one.

 

Hey Rob - good to see you're back.

Some of us on the EX e-mail list are planning on going out for Snake Hunt - the weekend of April 21st. Should be a blast... I'll be going with some guys that ride a couple stock 300EX's, a stock 400EX, and a stock XR400.

Right now we're working out a form of identification so it will be easy to spot each other out there.

Shoot me an email