Toyeboy, I beleive you are correct on the locker issue. I am not sure how the traxlock system works. The brakes issue has been solved with tripple disc brakes instead of tripple drumb brakes on the new Rincons. From past experince 20cc is not always a guaranty that one engine will be more powerfull than another. Look at the Honda and Yamaha 450's and how they both put out more power than the Raptor 660's. I also have a P650 that is well tuned and puts out 1 hp more than a stock P700 on back to back dyno runs. There is alsmost 70cc difference there. Not saying the Honda is going to be more powerfull than a KQ, and going by there past products perfomace traits, I too doubt it will be. I will however be surprised if it is not at least close in power.

I tend to like to break things down to advantages and dissadvantages

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Power = advantage KQ ???

Handaling = Slight advantage Rincon

Reliabilty = Advantage Rincon

EFI = a Tie

Trans reliability = Advantage Rincon

Traction ability = Advantade KQ

Engine Braking ability = Advantage KQ

Looks = Tie

Seat comfort = Tie

overall Ergo's = slight Advantage Rincon

Work ability = advantage Rincon (No Belts)

Stability = advantage Rincon

Ground clearance = Advantage KQ

Color choices = advantage KQ

Gage cluster = Aadvantage Rincon (available GPS)

Price = Advantage KQ
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For me those are my most important issues and the score for me is 7 to 6 In favor of the Honda.

 

I kind of see your point, but I think most could agree with me that a "class" is usually defined by displacement. Comparisons of the Z400 when it first came out to the Raptor were just for fun and you can't seriously consider them to be true competitors considering the engine difference. If the Z/KFX400 is not the leader in the 350-400 sport class, who is? While you are correct about the King's power, ponies are CERTAINLY not the only thing that make an ATV good. Example: Brute Force. It takes an overall package to make a great sport-utility these days and this is where the King delivers. It may not do one or two things the best, but it does absolutely everything great.

 

The Rincon has a torque sensing diff. Most manufacturers have a speed sensing or limmited slip diff. A torque sensing diff will transfer power to the spinning wheel in optimum conditions. Ususally it's just as good as a locker under normal conditions. People confuse this as 3WD all the time. Honda does not use the same type of diff as is used on other quads. People assume that Honda's 4wd acts like a Yamaha or Suzuki. It does not in the least. Yamaha and Suzuki use an open diff(when not locked), Honda uses a torque sensing diff. Suzuki and Yamaha diffs are 3wd, they will go along untill contact will hold them still while the other wheel spins. Honda's diff will recognise the bias in traction and shift torque to the wheel that needs it. I'm sure people don't understand this and I'm open to questions. My only goal here is to set people straight on the Honda "3-WD". This is the practical explaination of "Trax-Loc". Any technology before this is not supported by my claim.

 

Thanks crblick, I knew it had some kind of traction system on it. I just did not know how the traxlock worked. Good info.

goblin, if you want to pin it down to a class why throw in the 350's the warrior is an entry level sport quad that was almost an antic when the Z400 came out. Lets just use 400cc only as a class and the Z400 is the winner. I could argue that the Z400 has been racing in the field with the Yami 450 and Honda 450's on the track both of wich will out perform the Raptor 660 in everthing but backing up. So in the 400 class the Z400 beats the only other 400 out there the Honda 400ex a machine that came out in 1998, I would expect the Z400 to beat it since it hit the market 4 or 5 years later. If Suki had wanted to realy up the anty they would have used one of there race dirt bikes motors in stead of the trail / enduro 400, like they are working on now. My point is still that Honda and Suki tend to be more mid pack followers rather than rule bending inovators in the market. That is not ment as a slam on honda or Suki just an avid fan of all things atv oppsevation.

 

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]It appears with a lot of the mfgrs upping their motors to 700, 750, and 800 to me
I would think that was enough. An individual at the atv pull here in Maine to me that
Yamma was coming out with and 880, and was disappointed when it never showed
up this year. If this keeps up the atvs will use as much gas as my pickup.

 

Some of them already do use more than my pickup.

 

Back to this trax-loc thing from honda, correct me if im wrong but I thought that it was a device that allows it to switch from 2 to 4 wheel drive via some magnetic mechanism. That was one of the things that sold a foreman 450 to my dad was the ability to switch back and forth but I could be wrong.

 

The 350 Raptor is a competitor, I would think. The Z400s that are racing mx are bored-out 450s. I'm talking stock machines.

 

I think you are confusing that with a locking front differential, something Honda ATVs have never had. This is a drive mode that makes all 4 wheels turn no matter what. If the Rubicon is outfitted with the same differential as the Rincon, then I would beg to differ that they don't "3-wheel." I've had to deal with it firsthand.

 

The 350 Raptor or Warrior that was out when the Z400 hit the market was a 10 year old quad with a utility quad motor. They were not fast at all, they had horrable ergo's and very old tech suspension and is 50cc light.If you wont put the 450's in with the Z400 then you cant put the entry level 300-350 class in with it either. I cant think of any magazine shootouts putting them together. The new Raptor 350 does have an improved suspesion but still is more in the 300ex's class not the 400ex or Z400 class. The difference in performance of a raptor 350 / warrior to the 400ex is like the Raptor to the 400 ex. Years ago I had a warrior when my brother had his 300ex trust me those two are, and belong in the entry level sport class, They run out very close with the Honda having the edge in handeling.