Well, no comment on how anyone can lock the front brakes and spin a full-time 4x4 around, but I smell more than the usual farm odors there.

Personally, I don't think the AC500's higher compression will make up for the Grizzly's extra cubes and longer stroke, but when it comes to "who has the most torque?", there is another aspect to consider, that being "torque spread" or "power band", instead of just "peak torque".

Someone pointed out that the Yamaha Banshee 350cc twin has higher peak torque, and that may be so, but a "peak", be it torque or HP, occurs only at one specific point in the RPM band. The Banshee's "peak torque" occurs along a very narrow range, and at very high RPM, compared to the larger four-stroke engines. "Peaky" engines (those producing great amounts of power but only in a narrow RPM range) don't interest me for off-road riding where one's speed and RPM vary so greatly. If you ride a track where your speed can be maintained, and if you have enough gears to keep the engine running within the narrow range where peak power occurs, that's fine. But that won't work on a utility machine used for work or casual trail riding.

For example, most people might hastily accept that two cars with the same weight, same gearing, same transmission, same tires, and the same max HP would perform the same on the drag strip. But if one car had a 400 c.i. engine while the other had a 300 c.i. engine, even with the same "max" (i.e., same "peak") HP, the 400 will usually be quicker, because it will produce a better "power band" than the car with the smaller engine. The larger engine will generally produce better power "around" the point of maximum power, even though the two different engines may produce the same absolute "max" power.

I still don't think the AC500 produces more torque, even at aboslute peak, than the Grizzly 600, but even it if did, would it still produce as much torque at lower and higher RPM? If we could examine the power bands from 2000 to 6000 RPM of several different ATV engines (and I'd love to see an accurate list of comparisons), I doubt that any 500cc 4x4 ATV engine will match the spread of the Grizzly. Even if the AC500 did rise above the Grizzly at some point, it would probably be well below at all other points.

By the way, if anyone wants more cubic inches for their Honda 450 (432.6cc), Highlifter Products offers a Big Bore kit that replaces the stock 90mm sleeve and piston with a 93.5mm bore, to produce a 466.9cc engine. For $260 in parts (piston, rings, gaskets, and sleeve), and about $150 in machine shop work (press out the old sleeve, bore the cylinder to accept the new sleeve, press in the new sleeve, bore the new sleeve to accept the new piston, and then cut a fresh surface on top), plus engine disassembly and reassembly, you can pick up an additional 34.3cc (that's about $200 per cubic inch of gain, though). If you know anyone who has done this modification, I'd sure like to hear from them. I installed a Powroll Big Bore kit on my Honda 300 4x4 (went from 282cc to 313cc), and the results were well worth it (more cubes AND more compression).

I owned a 1998 Suzuki 500 4x4 for seven months before trading it in for a 1999 Honda 450. There's no doubt in my mind that the Suzuki 500 engine had way more power, but I'm not sure when the extra power would be beneficial to a worker or casual trail rider. The 450 has never demonstrated insufficient power for anything I've tried, and is more than capable of spinning all four tires when the load exceeds the available traction. Plus, the Honda has such superior handling, that it is generally the faster machine in the woods. According to the stock speedometers (a poor indication for accuracy, I know) on each, I managed a 55 mph top speed on the Suzuki 500, and only a 50 mph top speed on my 450ES. But on rough and twisty trails in the woods, the Suzuki handled so poorly, I just had to get rid of it. With a rider of identical skill level on each, even my Honda 300 was faster on woods trails. The Suzuki's extra power just didn't make up for its inferior handling (much like a Sportsman 500 too, by the way).

 

Gordon, buddy, I thought it was obvious that I was joking. I really didn't mean to sound like I was telling the truth. I mean if you think about it, that would be kind of hard. I had always believed that you were a pretty knowledgable regular here, so I was surprised that you took it seriously. Or were you kidding as well. Sorry

 

Now that I remember which post you are referring to, I can explain. Tree Farmer, I already e-mailed you an explaination, but I didn't read this thread before that. You said that "I knew for a fact" that my AC had more torque. O.K. Now, read the whole post on that one. I was joking, on all accounts if you read correctly. It was just a sarcastic joke post to Gordon L. Banks, and it was more or less mocking all of the people on this forum who get pissed off when someone says something about the bike they own. I don't mind if the Grizzly has more torque or not, I just thought it would be funny if I made this outrageous post like I was mad, then at the end said that I was kidding. Sorry if anyone was offended by any of my posts in this thread, they were not intended that way at all.

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Andy Bassham *(1999 Arctic Cat 500 4x4, 1989 Honda 300)*

 

Dynojet.com

They have the horsepower numbers for the Suzuki 500, the Sportsman 500, the Foreman 450, and the Grizzly. But they only have the torque numbers for the 300 ex, the 400 ex, the Expedition, and the Suzuki 160.

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Arctic Cat 500, Not your average Kitty, The New King Of the Jungle

 

GOOD MORNING EVERYBODY.
Just wanted to jump back into the post for a few more questions. First though, there was some excellent info on the torque questions. Tree Farmer and Gordon L Banks, along with others, some good insight on the motors. One big thing to remember, is that the factories sometimes doctor their numbers, in certain ways (read LIE). By looking at outside companies such as dynojet, you can get unbiased numbers.(sometimes).
Gordon L Banks, what did you mean by the added note on Sportsman's at the end of your last post. I know you have ridden a lot of bikes, and I would like for you to expand on the handling of the Sportsman, in your opinion. I still havent bought a new bike yet, but did find a real good deal on a used 98, that has caused me to look at my choices again (and again, and again etc.).
One last question - for now, how bad is the steering on the AC500. Want something that is fun and workable, but dosent work me too much.
thanks.
RIDE HARD--NEVER LIFT!!!

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Steering on the AC, not the best, but not the worst...its not hard to steer, as far as using physical strength, it just pushes in turns, so just keep the wheels turned and the throttle on and it will come around!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...eventually..hehe

 

If you ride on alot of pavement it is one of the worse steering bikes on the market.

I think it is because of a number of things. For example: the tires are the largest tires ever put of an Atv from the factory, the grips are big so they put alot of rubber on the road, it has a very large radiator, which holds a good bit of water, and it in front of the front wheels, and the A-arms are made out of square tubing, this makes them very strong but very heavy. On gravel I can steer mine with one hand, I can't do this on a Honda 300. I think it is because the tires float better than the narrower Honda's tires.

If you want to see a bike push then come see me ride with my 6 foot 5, 327 pound couz on the back rack.

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Arctic Cat 500, Not your average Kitty, The New King Of the Jungle

 

i still don't understand how the cat 500 can have more torque. i know the banshee has a higher torque rating to and its only 350cc.

 

Mud600, a clue lies in the fact the Banshee has a two stroke-cycle engine, while the Suzuki/Arctic Cat has a four stroke-cycle engine.

Explaining the significance of this difference requires "smart talk," offensive and boring to Arctic Cat riders. E-mail me if you want to discuss this issue further privately!

Tree Farmer

 

The Banshee is also aided by two cylinders and dual carbs. Kinda like the difference in power vs. displacement between a six cylinder ford 300 and a ford 302 V8.

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Andy Bassham *(1999 Arctic Cat 500 4x4, 1989 Honda 300)*