I'm new on this forum, so please bear with me. I'm in North Idaho, and in the process of buying a 20 acre parcel by a small lake, where we plan to build next year. I will have 1/4 to 3/8 mile of road to snowplow. Snowfall may run up to 12-18" at a time, potentially with wet heavy snow. Driveway isn't too steep though. I am also looking for a rig to do some skidding of logs, and/or hauling of cut firewood. Will also of course want to do some playing, one issue for a 4x4 that has my wife coming around is the 200-300 foot vertical drop, over about 1/8 mile (ie steep trail) down to the lake. A concern is that the machine also be something that my wife can handle, I'll be on a bike most of the time when we play. My neighbor has a 660 Grizzly that she didn't seem to have any trouble with. Also hope to have the chance to use it to carry big game out of the woods.

OK, now for the questions:
1) Will a ATV handle these plowing requirements? I currently have an OLD Land Crusier that I use for plowing, but it isn't as versitle or as much fun as a ATV. Should I be thinking about a tractor instead?

2) If a ATV will cut it, which one do you recommend? Idealy I'd like to find a few year old one to avoid wacking the budget too much, but it looks as if there are alot of new big utility rigs that have come out in the last couple of years. Will consider new.

3) Are the automatics OK for this kind of work, or should I stick with a manual? I've had some experience with snowmobile belts blowing from time to time, but they are running at much higher RPM than what I anticipate here. A blown belt would be a bad thing in the middle of winter, I'll be stuck at home if I can't plow my way out; course not much stops the old Chevy. Reliability is more important than the convience of the auto.

3) Who makes accessories for use as a "poor mans tractor"? I'd like to see some kind of a box-grader for landscaping and road maintenance.

4) What's a good place to go to learn more?

Thanks in advance.

Bri

 

check out the 500 arctic cat think that would be a better work quad than the gizz or the 650 prairie

 

Brianidaho,

In my opinion:

1) You're talking about quite a bit of snow. If you're expecting to plow 12-18 inches of heavy snow in one shot- you're going to have trouble, especially if the snow has time to freeze up.

I'm in a similar situation and I feel the solution will to get a snow blower that attaches to the ATV. I haven't done it yet, but after I do I will be posting my experience.

Come to find out there are a few companies that offer ATV snow blowers. They cost from $2K-$4K. I would suggest getting the plow kit in addition (it's about $400) and you can use it for the light stuff and non-snow applications (gravel, loan, etc...).

2) At a minimum, I'd recommend getting a 4x4 machine with a +400 cc motor. You're going to need the power, weight and traction.

3a) I had the same concern when I was shopping. However, the belt systems are different than snowmobiles- they grab instantly. You don't need to wind them up for them to catch.

A friend of mine DRAGGED his fishing shed (+1,000 lbs.) with a Polaris Sportsman 500 without a problem- no slipping whatsoever.

Plus, if you buy a machine that has a Low transmission, you'll have all the low-end power that you need. If you're weary of belts, Honda offers an automatic w/o them....

3b) All of the manufactures offer accessories, but Polaris seems to offer widest variety. Stop buy a Polaris dealer and get their complete catalog- I couldn't believe the extensiveness.

4) Go to the Dealerships and get the brochures and catalogs and read up- it'll educate you and allow you to ask better questions when you talk to others.

After I considered everything, I ended up buying a new Grizz. For the area I was ridding and the purposes that I needed it for, it was my best option- but it might not be yours.

There are other very good machines that I had a hard time choosing between, including the Honda Rubicon, Prairie 650 and Sportsman 700...

Best of luck.

 

I did a lot of research before deciding on the Arctic Cat 400 4x4 for myself. I'd suggest you do the same. My needs, however, are different from your's. I want a sturdy 4x4 with plenty of power, but I'll only us it on the trails. I like the suspension that seems to be a Cat exclusive, but that same suspension system is probaly NOT what you need in your application.

I'd suggest you take up TrailRaker's suggestion and look into the Polaris ATV's. They're almost all automatic, they have a stiffer rear suspension (which you will need for plowing - heck, you'd probably need to block it entirely), and they tend to be heavy machines (which would help you a lot). And he's right about the catalog, it's very think with a surprising amount of optional equipment (including plows and snowblowers).

The only other ATVs I think that would even come close are the Yamaha Grizz and the 650 Kawi Prairie, both automatics and both huge machines.

Hope that helps.

 

For a pure workhorse atv, you should really consider the AC line of 500's. I have to disagree with Pechimal's comment though about the suspension-the ACT suspension is "cat exclusive" (the rear swing axle design). This system is basically a strait axle rear end that pivots independantly giving more articulation and a smoother ride. Of all the strait axle quads on the market, AC is still the best at keeping all four tires on the ground. In no way will this effect or harm your working capabilities, in fact, by having all four on the ground it will actually help you by increasing traction. He could have meant the new IRS version though, and in which case, I do agree that would not be your best option for towing and hauling. IRS quads loose ground clearance any time you add a load, or hook up to tow something, such as your box blade.

The other machine to look at might be the Traxter line, from Bombardier, or possibly the Kaw 650. In all seriousness and quite honestly, I really don't see the need for anything larger than 500cc's anyway however. I run a '00 500 AC Auto 'Cat, with over 1,200 miles and probably 95% of that is strictly working miles, in 4 wheel, low range while towing and or hauling huge loads of logs. I was "skidding" these, dragging by chain or cable across the ground-again, in low range. The 'Cat handled this fine, even with huge 27" Bi/Tri Claw Magnum tires. In an effort to make it somewhat easier for myself, I just finished building a trailer to haul the logs on, instead of dragging across the ground. I converted and old boat trailer, with an axle heigth of between 18-20", down to a useable 4'x10' space for hauling logs, or a removeable 4'x8' box bed for fence mending supplies and such. I do this work during most of the year, with the exception of the dead of winter when there is several feet of snow, and I can't even get the truck near my place. I have towed our suburban in over 2' of snow, and ridden the 'Cat in depths up to or a hair over 3' unloaded, but the going was slow. Take a look at my pictures at the link below, you'll see exactly what I'm talking about-both towing the sub in 2', as well as other logs and such in deep snow. My point with the 500cc bit is simply this-after all the work I've done, and everything I've put my quad through, the 500cc's has ALWAYS been plenty, and I've never run out of power. Again, keep in mind I'm running 27" aggressive mud terrain tires, which puts a lot more stress on the machine, and demands more power to turn. In all honesty, about the only thing a larger cc machine will give you besides a little more top speed is bragging rights.

The other thing to consider is, setting quads aside, the dealer. The best quad in the world (there isn't one by the way) isn't worth a darn when it's broke down, and if your dealer won't help you out in that time of need, you're screwed. Having a machine down in the dead of winter when there's snow to plow so your wife can get up the driveway with the groceries is a real pain in the butt, so you'll really want to check out the dealer before you buy any brand of quad. Maintenance is the other reason I suggest AC machines-they are very easy to maintain, just change the oil and clean the air filter. You won't want to have to grease everything after every ride and especially all winter long after plowing snow.

As far as the snow goes, you might see those depths occur over night, but really not that frequently. The last several winters around here we really haven't had as much snow as I'd like to have seen personally, but whatever happens, happens, we just go with the flow. I think under these circumstances, the snow plow is the better way to go, and is considerably cheaper than the blower attachment. I would recommend looking into the Moose Brand 60" plow. The 'Cat, or any other 500cc + machine quad will have no problem pushing that, under the regular snow depths. If we do luck out and get a really heavy dump with a lot of deep snow, you might have to go out and plow once while it's still snowing, but that's really no big deal either. If worst comes to worst, and we do luck out and see a big dump of 18" or better, you can always fall back on your Land Cruiser, but honestly, I think a quad with a 60" plow will be plenty to handle the tasks we get out here.

For the rest of your implement needs, Weekend Warrior, and Cycle Country make all kinds of farming implements, such as blades, plows (chisel and disc), box blades, rakes, mowers, etc. Do a search for either of those two names, you'll find probably everything you'll need for atv's as far as implements are concerned. For other accessories, try Cabela's, High Lifter and Rocky Mountain atv for starters, as well as www.hi-per.com, they have a ton of stuff as well.

As far as the Auto goes, like I said, look at my pictures, that will show you a LITTLE of what I do. Unfortunately I lost the roll of the good deep mud pics and the heavy work, but that will give you a small idea. My property is outside of Omak Washington, if you're familiar with the area at all. Basically, it is true that the manual machines are stronger, and better suited to towing heavy implements and such, if you do intend to till all 20 acres, I'd suggest a tractor instead of an atv, that is a lot of area to be doing on a quad. If you're only doing a coule acres though, the quad will be much more versatile for you, and more fun as well. If you do go with the auto, I would shy away from Polaris, simply due to the tranny setup on those machine-they use the snowmobile type clutch, which releases and engages upon giving throttle, consequently you'll tend to burn up a few more belts in the process of the work. AC, the Yamaha Grizzly and I believe the Kaw 650 are all under constant tension, constantly engaged, so you're less likely to burn a belt. I have not slipped mine even once while working or towing heavy loads like the suburban or skidding logs, always worked great for me. My feelings are a little divided on this issue, as for pulling the chisel plows and items like that, I think I'd feel a little safer with a manual machine. I'm sure the auto will do it, as I've worked the hell out of mine with out a single problem at all, but you just never know when that extra "umph" will be too much.

As far as pricing goes, if you don't want brand new, I know AC for sure is giving great deals on '01 models as closeouts, I'm sure Polaris and Yammy will as well. Honda might depending on where you go, but it's been my experience that they just don't deal on any of their machines-there is always somebody who will pay full retail for a Honda, and consequently you won't find that freedom to negotiate as well with a Honda. If you do look at the 'Cat line, I might suggest really comparing the new '02 models to the '01s. AC has made a lot of changes, and me personally, I think I'd opt for paying a little extra and getting the new '02 instead.

Anyway, sorry for the length. I think that about covers all your questions, probably and then some. If you have anything else, just ask, would be glad to try and help.

Best of Luck with the decisions, and congrats on the new land purchase!

Mike

 

Thanks for all the replys, I hadn't expected this much of a response this quickly. I'm glad to see all the good comments about the Arctic Cat-I had a couple of their sleds and am still a fan. I had glanced at their ATV's about 3-4 of years back (actually just before I built the Cruiser and plow) and was pretty impressed. IIRC they didn't have all the gimmicy stuff like the LCD display, or as much fairing as the Griz I was on this weekend. To me, that's a good thing, much easier to work on, and probably cheaper to fix when something goes wrong. Does AC use Suzuki motors on these things too?

I think I like the idea of the live rear axle better than the independant. CV joints tend to be the weak link in most drivelines, it would be nice to do without them in this area. From what little time I've spent looking at specs, I recall that the Cat 500's are a 650 lb or so machine, looks to be getting right up there. I don't see the need for the high end speed, 60 mph on something with offroad tires and a 4' wheelbase I can do without anyway. As long as the sustained low and midrange torque are there it seems like the need would be met. I don't plan on farming much if any of the property, summer time activities will be mostly log skidding, maybe carring water for fire containment (I have a fair amount of slash to burn) and playing. I am also a volunteer firefighter, and an ATV seems like the ideal way to get in (and carry water and equipment into) our inevetable lightning strikes. Granted much of the country around here is too steep for a ATV though...

Cowboy, that's a pretty piece of property. Pretty impressive to that you are able to tow 6000# or so of Suburban with 600# of AC. Kind of like those airport tractors moving a loaded 747. I currently live south of Coeur d'Alene, and the property I'm buying is a little SW of Sandpoint. We are a little higher (about 3000 ft) where I am now, and like you said, we usually don't get that much snow at a time, 6-8" is a more likely prospect. I'm kinda thinking of the worst case scenario-4-5" during the night, too lazy to plow before work, and another 8" say during the day. Not that likely anyway, and if the 10 year storm hits, I can always get a neighbor with a tractor or a Cat (er Caterpiller, not Arctic) up to help out. BTW, is the grader in the pic yours Cowboy?

You also mentioned a difference between the Polaris and AC clutch. I'm familiar with the snowmobile style (Polaris per your post) (have spent a little time rebuilding Commets), but don't understand what the AC has. Is there a seperate centrifical clutch in addition to the CVT?

I'll be checking the local dealers, hope to have some time this week, though the weekends are kind of tied up with hunting season. Thanks again for all the helpful tips.

Brian

 

Correct! Arctic Cat does use Suzuki motors. Also, check out the Bombardier "Traxter" with the locking front differential. They also have a new "Quest" 650.

 

Ya...I retract my comments about the Cat's suspension not being up to it. I made those comments based on some info I read about sled pulling with a cat and BEFORE I picked mine up. Last night, after spending some time on my 2002 400 4x4 (with the ACT suspension) I am fairly confident it'd be up to the tasks you have in mind. Though you should probably still consider the 500. All in all it's a solid machine. I felt like I was driving a juggernaught out there. I felt like I could drive over trees!! Somehow, I resisted the urge to try that out!

 

Brian-
Yes, you are correct-dry weight of the 'Cat is around 650 lbs. Add the fuel, oil that will go up a bit. The current condition you see my 'Cat, with me riding is closer to 1,170 pounds if I remember right-(650 'Cat, 100+ up front, 200 rear, me at 220), yeah, that's about 1,170 it runs around with ALL the time. Yes, I am definately impressed with the low end torque and the pulling ability of the 'Cat. Pre '02, the AC 500 had the highest torque rating of any 4x4 utility quad out there, at 31 ft/lbs., which is more than the 600 griz at 29 ft/lbs! The low range, is LOW, and the torque is amazing. Even with my huge magnum 'Claws, I can still tow everything I used to with the stock tires, just as easily, only better now that I have better traction. And, since doing "minehunters tranny trick", by rotating the spring on the driven pulley, I have been able to tow even greater amounts, and making it easier on the machine by putting it in the proper rpm range immediately when hitting the gas, rather than forcing it to build up to it.

As for the clutches, I am no mechanic by any means, but the way I understand it, is that Polaris uses a "snowmobile" type clutch as they call it, which say you're in neutral, it disengages. As the pulleys come from the sides, the belt runs down the middle, this is what causes wear on the edges of the belt, which leads it to frey and then break, from continuously engaging and disengaging of the pulleys, or clutches, whatever you want to call them. On the 'Cat, they are linked all the time, constantly engaged no matter what. As a result, there is no side wear on the belt and they tend to last longer. To date, I have not heard of anybody having to replace the belts on the auto 'Cats since their introduction in '00. Of course, to Polaris credit, I have heard of a few guys who got something like 3,500 miles on their first belt, which is pretty great if you ask me. Then again, when you see guys like 500DUSE (I think it is) who has replaced 10 of them so far????, it makes you wonder. His sounds like something is severly out of adjustment though, and his damn dealers are not smart enough to figure that out. Anyway, like I said, I'm no mechanic and don't know how to explain it in those types of terms, but that is the way I understand it.

As for the pictures, thanks, yes it is beautiful country. Our elevation is similar to yours, as we start around 2,500-3,000 and move up to 5,000 or so in some places. average on my own ground is probably right around 3,500 though. As for the grader-that is not mine, but a family friends. We use it frequently to fix roads, etc. Comes in handy, but it's nothing like the one I was operating last summer! I got to work for an equipment dealer (Western Power and Supply), they gave me the keys to a BRAND NEW Champion 716A grader, fully loaded with all the options, and something like 10 minutes on the hour meter. I had a lot of fun with that thing! Course I think I liked all the big wheel loaders the best-the Cats were fun too (dozers), but man that grader was cool while I had it!

I have relatives up in Spokane, used to ski up at Schweitzer quite a bit, and over at Silver as well. We ran up to Kelly's quite a bit too, while at school in Pullman, I'm sure you've heard of that place. Don't go there anymore though-not that rowdy anymore-getting old I guess. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] One things for sure, it is pretty country up where you're at too.

Back to the 'Cats-you're right, they are NOT the fastest by any means. The brand new ones you might hit 60 if you're lucky. They will however climb anything you have the guts to attempt, pull whatever you ask of them, and go about anywhere you could possibly even consider. I will be honest though, since adding my 'Claws, that has increased greatly in places I can go, both due to added traction, but also to the increased ground clearance-getting high centered is not so much of a worry anymore.

Anyway, if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask, I'd be glad to try and help. Best of Luck to ya, and again, enjoy that new property!


Pechmial-Very glad to hear you enjoy your new 'Cat! Would love to see some more mud pics of it all dirty-when you get the chance of course! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] Nice pics by the way of your kids (???) having fun in the mud, that was good! BTW-you might be surprised that your 'Cat can climb trees! I've done that several times, putting one tire up, then crawling right up the thing-in low range of course. Also have driven over numerous trees of up to 3" in diameter before. I don't recommend doing that though unless you absolutely have too-sometimes they'll tend to bow on you the wrong direction, things get a little "hairy" for a few seconds!

Anyway, Best of Luck guys!

Mike

 

Cowboy, I put a few of me getting mud on it here. Unfortunately, there were no nice boggy type pits to run it through in my usual riding area...only places to give my new ride "character"[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Now, if I could only teach my son to take photos as well as I've taught him to ride his quad [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif[/img]