Hello ATV riders,
I am a college student redesigning atv utility vehicles. I am in the research phase of this 6 month project. I am writing to this forum to get real feedback and responses to how one uses and lives with Atvs. Scince Atv (the utility vehicles in particular) being an funtional based product, often are not designed with all its uses in mind. Often these products stay the same for years because upfront research and redesign cost lots of Money to companies. This is a full scale project (concept to fullscale working prototype) and your help may eventually fulfill your wants in the future of ATV vehicles. Note: this is not being done for profit. It is soley a school project. So I am on a quest to find out what you use your personal vehicle for and under what conditions.

I am would love to hear from you all. I have questions such as,
What do you do with your ATV? ex, pulling, moving material, hunting, construction, recreation, etc.

What does your vehicle not do well?

How do you misuse your ATV, these are rugged vehicles and are put to extreme uses, what extremes do you use or not use?

What environment do you use it in? ex: your land, public land, on your farm, ranch, swamp, mountain terrain, etc.

How often do you use it?

Do multiple riders use it?

What are these vehicles missing for you enjoyment and use? ex: not comfortable, not enough grab bars, no cover from elements, cheap materials, etc.

What was caused you to buy your current utility vehicle??? cost, look, the way it was marketed, its claimed uses, etc.



By answering just one of my questions would be a great help and will lead to designs which will make the life for atv users better,safer and more productive. A simple few answers or a small story of how you live and use your atv would be great.

Thank you for your time and participation.

sincerely, Kirby Long

 

Well, let's see...
I have a 1996 Honda Fourtrax 300 2 wheel drive. It mainly gets used as a run around machine, for going from here to there, or hauling light loads. It really isn't heavy-duty enough in my mind for real work (I know there will be many here that will argue that, but after siezing 3 engines on similar machines due to overheat/overwork, I know what I am talking about - remember, I said REAL work).

Strengths: It just seems to be put together really well, quality of build is very good, and everything is well protected from underneath. It will haul or tow a fair load a short ways, but I try to take it easy to prevent overheat. It's biggest weakness, in my opinion, is it's harsh riding suspension. In a way, that is OK, as it keeps speeds down more in rough situations. It also could use a stronger charging system. It is fine for running the lights, but not much more.
Really, since it wasn't marketed as a heavy use machine, it probably is a pretty good bike for what it was designed to do. I just wish it rode smoother. One thing that would be nice would be floorboards, to keep your feet from being hit from stuff you run over.



I also have a 1999 Polaris Xplorer 400. This one is the 'work' viechle. Not as refined as the Fourtrax, it is bigger, stronger, and tougher. Being a 4x4, and liquid cooled, it is the one that pulls the 1500# trailer, and hauls the big loads through the mud & the muck. It also has a stronger charging system, so it gets the 12 volt sprayer mounted on it. Its greatest strengths are its power, and resistance to overheating. You can really work the dickens out of it, with no real ill effects. I have pulled over double the trailer weight recommended, hauled over double the rack weight recommended, and it seems to be taking it well. The brakes are quite strong, but could stand for a little better pad life. It rides much smoother than the Fourtrax, and that coupled with the much stronger engine, makes for a more fun spirited trail riding machine. I have had no failures of any kind with the controls, switches, and the like, but the ones on the Fourtrax just have a more solid 'feel' to them.
I like the wider stance of the Polaris. It allows for the machine to be built with a longer travel suspension, yet not be any tippier than the Honda. For trail riding, it is smoother, yet just as safe feeling.
The belt-drive transmission has really held up well for me, about all I could ask for would be a roller secondary (the rear slider buttons have been replaced once, the rollers should last indefinately). This machine has a chain drive to the rear wheels, which is another weakness. The chain takes far more maintanence than a shaft would, and isn't as strong. At least it is cheap to replace. I also think that for most uses, the Polaris 4wd system is the best one out there that I have driven. I think it, too, was a good machine for it's represented uses. It also gave me far better performance for the money spent.

Both machines get driven almost daily from spring to fall, and every now and then in the winter. Conditions are everything from graded dirt roads, to cattle pastures, to mud, to snow. No rocks or mountains. They are farm use machines, and get used, but not abused or raced around much. The Polaris has 7200 miles, and I guess the Honda to have between 5000 & 6000, but it is just a guess as it has no odometer.

In my opinion, right now there is a lot of emphasis on who can make the biggest, or the baddest ATV right now. I think a fairly big-bore machine (450-500 cc) with basic features, a low price, and a decent ride is under-represented right now. Something with an automatic tranny, hi & low range, & selectable 2wd-4wd is what I PERSONALLY will be looking for when I go to replace what I have now. I don't think I need the extra complexity of IRS (although I DO like the way they ride) and prefer the belt auto, because I can do most of the work on it myself.
Something like my Xplorer, but with shaft drive, or maybe the now-discontinued 500 Magnum is what I have in mind.

Hope this helps...


Farmr

 

you want something shaft drive not chain... sealed bearings not ones that u ahve to grease everything.. want something wiht liquid cooling and/or oil cooled soemtthing with diff trans settings hi.low etc etc

 

Thanks! Mr Farmr,

Details about what you really use your vehicle for really help. To make better utility vehicles one must know what they are REALLY used for. I believe alot of these utility vehicles are designed with just general uses in mind. And the engineers who design them do little research on peoples farms, ATV club and events, to see how these products are used.

Having REAL stories and experiences with current utility vehicles gives me alot to influence new design avenues to take.

thanks again, Student

 

I have a new Yamaha Bear Tracker 250. I mainly use mine for recreation and riding with friends who live near me. I have done quite a bit of pulling and hauling wood in the short time I've had it. About the only thing i wish I would change is the width. Mine is kind of tippy around turns at almost any speed.

 

Although I haven't picked it up yet, my Honda Foreman 450ES will be primarily used for recreational riding. I ride in pretty much every terrain you can think of except sand. In the past I have found Honda to be extremely reliable and warranty is easy to get support on from the dealers. A shiftable front difflock would be a nice feature to have as well as a 2wd/4wd shift on all their models would also be nice. Honda needs a good front difflock- their 3wheel drive sucks! The abuse I put it through includes hitting deep mudholes in 3rd or 4th gear and drowning my bike and myself as well as riding fast over rough terrain and occasionally jumping it. The suspension on Honda utility quads is on the whole very stiff and does not give very much. A softer, and adjustable suspension would be nice to see on alll quads. One thing it does not do well is wash itself off. That would be nice!![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] A longer factory warranty would also be nice to see. Except for Bombardier, I believe all other ATV manufacturers only have a 6 month warranty. Extended dealer warranty is pretty useless in a lot of cases. A softer seat, better handle grips, and better tires on Honda ATV's would also be nice. Many Atv manufacturers including Honda put cheap stock tires on their quads and that is a pain as you have to shell out big bucks to put good tires on. I bought Honda due to it's reliability, and that it holds it's resale value quite well. I think that if todays quads were all made a little lighter, it would be better also. Having a 600lb quad chase you down the hill after you roll it isn't fun!!!

 

OK, more details...
The Fourtrax gets used as a runnaround. Basically, this means just going from here to there, hauling an extra person, or light loads from place to place. I had a similar machine that I used to use for WORK, but I siezed the engine 2 times on it.

Note to manufacturers: Do NOT allow your sales reps to represent a machine as a 'workaholic' unless they mean it. After the first overhaul, they said it was a fluke. After the second was needed, I got a new machine, and wanted an oil cooler for it. I suspected that I was just working it too hard, and it was overheating. After being told it would be a 'couple hundred bucks at the most' but would be a few weeks before it came it, I bought the new machine. Well, when it came in they wanted $800 PLUS LABOR for a dinky little oil cooler. This on a machine I paid $3600 for!!! Anyway, I told them to stuff the cooler, and do not use it for work. Generally, it is just used to go from place to place, with light loads. It also sees a lot of use as a trail rider. The 2 biggest things I would change on this machine would be to add additional oil cooling capacity from the factory (or at least make it reasonably priced as an accessory) and adjustble suspension! Nothing like hitting something that would be considered a 'bump' on my Polaris and getting my rear end shoved up between my shoulders!
I prefer automatics, but have no problem with gear drives. I DO wish this machine either had hi-low range, or another gear. Yes, it has a super-low first gear, but the gap to second, and third is too big. Start pulling a trailer uphill, and either you are in a gear that you wonder if you are moving, or a gear it can't quite pull it in. The Fourtrax excells in being a good learner's bike. It has pretty forgiving handling, and shifts smoothly (easier to learn gear shifting that way), and all in all is pretty idiot proof, as far as maintanence & upkeep goes. It is a 2wd machine, so there are no front driveshafts to worry about.

The Xplorer gets used for all the work. Pulling a 1000# trailer across the cattle pastures, carrying fence supplies, hauling as many as 7 or 8 50# sacks of feed at a time (over fairly smooth trails) and carrying around the 15 gallon 12-volt weed sprayer around are it's uses. Probably the most demanding thing might be checking the cattle during calving. This is a job that HAS to be done, regardless of weather or conditions, and if there is a chilled calf on the far side of a mudhole, I either have to drive there, to pick him up, or walk through it, and carry it to the ATV. I have an ATV mounted baby calf carrier that I use to get them to the barn & warmed up. Naturally, the calves only chill on the coldest, muddiest, wettest, rainiest or snowiest days. This really puts the 4wd system to the test. For my uses, I can't fault the Polrais 4wd system. I feel any 4wd system with a locking front differential would do as well, but at the time I bought the Xplorer, only the Polaris had true 4x4 (except for the King Quad, and I wanted a bigger machine than that). Digging up a muddy hill with 4 inches of wet snow on top, hauling a calf really can put the 4x4 system to the test. Too many times I have seen a 4x4 ATV turn into a '3-wheel spinner' in these conditions. Note to ALL manufacturers: locking front end! At least make it optional!
Another hard use is spraying weeds. Stop and go driving, top speed maybe 2 MPH or so, engine idling all the time, 100* heat, no wind. I think that is what overheated the Fourtrax engines more than anything. It just built up too much heat. The stop-and-go driving caused the clutch to get very hot, as well, which didn't help anything. The Xplorer, on the other hand has the engine water cooled, and if you overheat the clutch, you don't overheat the oil. You might burn out a $30 belt, but don't wind up with a $1500 repair bill. I wish my Xplorer had better engine braking for this use (tooling along between weed patches, and suddenly see some, could slow down quickly without using the brakes).
I wish it had shaft drive instead of chain, but the chain hasn't been as bad as I feared. Takes a LOT of lube & TLC, though.
One thing I want to point out is the Xplorer has adjustable suspension preload. This is a godsend! Can lighten it up for casual riding, or stiffen it up for riding double, or carrying a load over rough terrain, and not have it bottom out. The Fourtrax bottoms out ALL the time, riding double on it. I don't think I have ever bottomed out the rear end on my Xplorer, because I can compensate for the load.

One thing EVERYBODY around here uses ATVs for is moving cattle. For this job you need a machine that can handle rough terrain without breaking your back, turns relatively short, and can outrun a cow. Being nimble and easy to handle doesn't hurt, either. Moving cattle involves long stretches of traveling 2 or 3 MPH, with short bursts to 20 or so, to catch the one that tries to get away. Short turning radius, and ease of going from forward to revers helps greatly. The quicker you can get ahead of the wayward cow, the better. Either an auto tranny, or a smooth-shifting manual machine is required.

Lastly, a LOT of people are farming over a bigger and bigger area. I have a field that is 5 miles away, on graveled roads, and LOTS of people go quite a bit farther than that. A machine that can go 50 MPH without sounding like it is going to blow the engine is quite popular here, too. Nothing like loading your ATV into a pickup, driving 3 or 4 miles, unloading it to check the crops or cattle, then loading it in the pickup, driving home, and unloading it, all because it seems to take forever to get there on your ATV. They don't have to do 70 or anything, just have a nice cruising speed of 45-50 or so. A tall high gear helps save fuel in this case, too.

If you need more details, let me know.

Farmr

 

Interesting discussion. My quad gets worked on a timber and tobacco/corn farm, with a few head of cattle that are nominally maintained by a neighbor, though I keep the fences up. Not my primary source of income, but it does take up some time. The quad is an invaluable tool, it makes it possible for one person to maintain this farm. For my work, it's usefulness falls into two areas:

1. Transportation
2. Pulling and moving.

Transportation moves myself and various tools across the farm. It's 45 minutes to get to the back of the farm on foot, the quad does it in 5 minutes, less if I'm having fun. This farm is fairly hilly and rough, so a tractor can't make it to most of the acreage. I also use a truck, but the quad doesn't damage the ground nearly as much, goes more places, and covers rough ground faster than a truck can. It will also pull a trailer load of firewood, 500+ pounds, back to the house. More than once, I've used the quad to get a tree off of a fencerow quickly. The quad gets me and the saw and fencing gear right to where the tree is down, and gives me the pulling power to move large pieces of wood while I'm there. With a truck, quite often it would be a 100 yard hike up a hill (with a heavy chain saw), and nothing but myself to move the wood, so more time was spent cutting the downed tree into manageable pieces to clear the fence.

Pulling and moving - I'm moving hardwood logs around. Don't actively cut live trees right now, but I'm preserving the oak and walnut that fall naturally. I have a few salvagable hardwood trees fall every year, they're big, and usually on a steep hillside where a truck can't get to them. The quad gets me up there, and gives me some serious moving power. With a winch, you essentially have a portable power pack, a device capable of moving over 2000 pounds for very short distances, and one you can manuver into some very tight spots. I don't drag 20 foot oak logs with a quad, they're too heavy, but I can use the quad to manuver them out of tight places and back to where the truck can be used.

So, the quad really is a suppliment to a truck or tractor. It doesn't really do much that a truck won't do, but it doesn't tear the ground up as much, doesn't use as much fuel, or cost as much. It has better manuverability, and (don't tell the IRS) it's just plain fun. Under the right circumstances, it is the most efficient tool for the job.

Right now, I use an Arctic Cat 500i. Excellent workhorse, great ground clearance and load carrying capacity. Reasonably tight handling, so it's fun for a weekend trail ride as well. The rough terrain of my farm places a premium on ground clearance, and dragging heavy items across rough ground is easier if all 4 wheels are on the ground, so I went with the IRS quad.

How could the quad serve me better?

More traction, and seating for two. The Cat already has impressive pulling power, but you can always use more. If I were to improve the Cat, I'd add a second set of independently sprung wheels on the back, like the Polaris 6x6. The primary reason I didn't get a Polaris 6x6 was the ground clearance. The majority of farmers usually have some help on hand, so seating for two would be a plus. Yes, they can ride on the racks, but that's uncomfortable and unsafe. If you really want to get some utility, have an interchangeable 2nd seat and dump bed. Take one off, and put the other on.

Another thing Arctic Cat offers that would do well on any working machine are the interchangeable racks, with toolboxes and/or baskets. They're designed from the factory to lock in place, so they don't jump around the way a strapped on basket can.

Mount an aux. headlight on the back. Many is the time that I've needed to load a wagon in the dark, and I finally got a spotlight to mount on the rear rack. Very handy.


--John

 

What are these vehicles missing for you enjoyment and use?

I have a few sugestions for this one.

1) Body Design- During maintenance I find that working around the body panels can be a pain in the butt. Let's focus on the front end for example...If ATVs had a system where the front fenders and rack would swing up out of the way (like snowmobiles), maintenance would be much easier. No more hassle when greasing, or checking the brakes, front diff, hubs, coolant,...etc...etc. The framework could remain generally the same, just have the "hood" attached to a pivot point on the front of the machine. As far as keeping this "hood" in place goes, use a few bolts at key structural places to maintain the current structural strength. I don't know about you, but I think that removing 6 to 10 bolts and swinging a "hood" out of the way would be a lot easier than having to remove many separate panels just to do routine maintenance. The same could apply to the rear too.

2) Accessories- Arctic Cat's Multi-Rack Platform (MRP) is a huge step in the right direction. Racks should be easily detachable and you should be able to put other items in their place. A few recommendations other than what AC has would be: 1) a fuel pack like Cajun's fuel pack that hooks up with the existing fuel system...Only have it designed in the shape of the original rack it replaces, so no cargo space is wasted. 2) a boom sprayer that takes the place of the original rack and, like the fuel pack idea, is designed not to use up cargo space (same thing for dry boxes and other similar items).......Basically, design any accessories to do their function, without using up the available cargo room(if possible).

3) Electronic Displays- First off, GPS should be at least be an option. Other than that, anything the display on your car gives you, your quad should have too. Many newer cars have 'message centers' that monitor many different systems and tells you if anything is wrong. Some, like the ones on Silverados, are small enough for use on ATVs (not sure if they would be strong enough though.-hey, it's an idea).

Since I'm talking about electronics, How about a 110v outlet? Having a small radio along when fishing/camping would be nice.

Other than these, the basic things like suspension, power, and handling improvements are always welcome.


SprtsMNFan

 

my idea.

power- need a pretty powerful motor with a smooth shifting auto cluth manual tranny with alleast 2 ranges for towing/hauling one for farm use like a high when going down the road and chasing cows. so like a high - low -towing "superlow" good 4stoke with oil-sump or w.e and liquid cooling both "like a raptor" and have an oil cooler have a guard on all coolers and a switch fan on and off so u can turn it on under extreme conditions. and shaft drive all the way around with a locking differental need something that will pull like an ox so like 1500+ lbs

Storage- need good squage tubualr racks made out of good stainless steel. need like the MRP cat racks with diffent iteams available. need doulbe layer racks one for storage to haul and under that a thiner -rack to put a flat pack gas carrier make a special one that hooks up to the fuel on.off control to turn it on after reserve is out. and for the racks have an atactment that will make your racks wider and longer for extra carring when hauling wood and etc.

Suspension- need adjustable suspension so u can turn up the suspenison when hauling extra big loads but you want it soft engough for when your just out checking cattle and stuff where it wont hurt your a$$ riding it all day.need ground clearence for when you are riding in mud chasing cows ur pullin stuff in mud so u can get though and so u can ride in a corn field to check corn and not knock it over

Tires- you want something with lots of grip but for farmers that survey corn u want special wheels that will adjust to ride with in the corn rows so like way offset wheels to adjust from the popular corn rows so narrow tires.. like a row crop tractor.

electionics- speedometer odometer gps large alternator and all the different types of plug ins that u can plug into one plug so u can have like a ciggarete lighter and the old style atv plug thing and one on front a rear


cant remeber else waht u need but ill think of it here in a day or 2 but you need towing and hauling so power and storage... but the row crop feature would help farmers out a lot so u would sell a lot to farmers