New $35 annual fee for riding ANF in PA!!!!
#1
03-08-2002, 11:31 AM
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Well, starting July 1st, the lovely ANF is now going to charge us a $35 annual user fee for the trail system! They claim they cannot maintain the trail system with the amount of vehicles that travel on it in a year. WHAT!? WE'RE GETTING CHARGED MORE TO RIDE ON OUR LAND!??!?!? THIS IS THE LAND THAT WE PAY FOR WITH OUR TAX MONEY!!!!!! THey've really pushed us WAY TOO FAR THIS TIME!
The whole reason for the plate/insurance issue that we've experienced in the last couple of months....is simple. Remember how they're pushing for landowners to let them build trails on their land instead of using the ANF? Well, this is so, they can "patrol" us easier (with the visible plate) and now our ATV insurance will cover any damage that we do to the landowner's property.
And now this? What's next!? We have to stop this crap! What's happening to our state registration money!? You know HOW much money is in that fund!? ALOT! Why can they not apply this money to the already established most used trail systems?? Humm, I guess that would be too easy. Instead let's give $77,000 to a resort to host a atv dice run to make money!
There is a resort in West Findley Twp
called Four Seasons in Washinton County Pa. They received a grant from
our ATV fund for 77,000 dollars and are now putting on a Poker Run and
obstacle course and mud bog to make money. I called them and asked how
they could do this after getting state money and they said it is
legal.I have contacted my congressman and suggest that all of you do
the same. I really don't think this is what we or the state was
supposed to do with our money. Yes they have made some more riding
areas but we have the same thing at poker runs.
This was an email that I had recieved.
What can we do? We're really getting screwed here. How about we don't pay the fee, and all meet on the trail on July 6th (the first weekend in July) and all ride together! What are they going to do? Fine us all? We have to start standing up for ourselves sometime......I'm sick of getting stepped on. Let's get the media there, and really make this a big deal! WE MUST BE HEARD!!!!
The whole reason for the plate/insurance issue that we've experienced in the last couple of months....is simple. Remember how they're pushing for landowners to let them build trails on their land instead of using the ANF? Well, this is so, they can "patrol" us easier (with the visible plate) and now our ATV insurance will cover any damage that we do to the landowner's property.
And now this? What's next!? We have to stop this crap! What's happening to our state registration money!? You know HOW much money is in that fund!? ALOT! Why can they not apply this money to the already established most used trail systems?? Humm, I guess that would be too easy. Instead let's give $77,000 to a resort to host a atv dice run to make money!
There is a resort in West Findley Twp
called Four Seasons in Washinton County Pa. They received a grant from
our ATV fund for 77,000 dollars and are now putting on a Poker Run and
obstacle course and mud bog to make money. I called them and asked how
they could do this after getting state money and they said it is
legal.I have contacted my congressman and suggest that all of you do
the same. I really don't think this is what we or the state was
supposed to do with our money. Yes they have made some more riding
areas but we have the same thing at poker runs.
This was an email that I had recieved.
What can we do? We're really getting screwed here. How about we don't pay the fee, and all meet on the trail on July 6th (the first weekend in July) and all ride together! What are they going to do? Fine us all? We have to start standing up for ourselves sometime......I'm sick of getting stepped on. Let's get the media there, and really make this a big deal! WE MUST BE HEARD!!!!
#2
03-08-2002, 02:43 PM
One issue that may be going on is since ANF is federal, the state may not be willing to give any money to them for their trails. Just a guess. You can blame us in Ohio if you like, because I am sure that ANF's plan is based on what they have been doing at Wayne National Forest for the last couple of years. We have to pay $25 for a use permit here. It is for the person and you have to have it if you want to use the trails with your dirtbike, quad, mountainbike, or horse. In other words, if you use more than shoes to get around, you have to spend $25. I do not have a problem with this, because the money stays within the forest's budget for trail maintenance and improvement. They have been good about puting the money back in with improved parking lots, bathrooms, trail grooming, helipads for Lifeflight choppers, and bridges over creeks and streams. Look at it this way, it is not a lot of money to keep land available to our sport when the general public could care less.
#3
03-08-2002, 02:58 PM
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No, Wayne has a great trail system though. Our's is in very poor condition if you ask me. The DCNR is suppose to release a statement in July, telling us where our registration money has been going. That's the problem, it'd only take 10% of that money to fund the required yearly maintence on the trail/pay the employees.
The way they maintain the trail needs changed also. They don't realize that 6 inches of loose gravel on a dirt road and atv's/dirtbikes don't mix. They wonder why people wreck and the gravel gets pushed off to the side of the road.
Wayne also only charges $25 for 111 miles of well maintained trails compared to our 105 miles of poor trail. I want to see a plan of action for our money also. So far, all I've seen is 80% of the money will go back into the trail. They're like snakes in the grass. We need them to present us with the plan.
Another reason why I have a problem, I've left my name/number with various forest rangers and the guy that is in charge of maintaining the trails. I've offered to donate my time. No one has ever contacted me. I think the recent decline in our trail system maintence was planned. They had to have a real good case in order to get this to pass. The public has offered to volunteer their time to help keep the trail up. I've even suggested a "Trail Police" program to them. I'm sick and tired of them complaning/me seeing idiots do dumb things out there, and not doing anything about it. I only live a mile away from the trailhead, and I'm on it 3-4 times a week. And I respect the land and the laws.
The way they maintain the trail needs changed also. They don't realize that 6 inches of loose gravel on a dirt road and atv's/dirtbikes don't mix. They wonder why people wreck and the gravel gets pushed off to the side of the road.
Wayne also only charges $25 for 111 miles of well maintained trails compared to our 105 miles of poor trail. I want to see a plan of action for our money also. So far, all I've seen is 80% of the money will go back into the trail. They're like snakes in the grass. We need them to present us with the plan.
Another reason why I have a problem, I've left my name/number with various forest rangers and the guy that is in charge of maintaining the trails. I've offered to donate my time. No one has ever contacted me. I think the recent decline in our trail system maintence was planned. They had to have a real good case in order to get this to pass. The public has offered to volunteer their time to help keep the trail up. I've even suggested a "Trail Police" program to them. I'm sick and tired of them complaning/me seeing idiots do dumb things out there, and not doing anything about it. I only live a mile away from the trailhead, and I'm on it 3-4 times a week. And I respect the land and the laws.
#5
03-09-2002, 06:04 PM
jcv400ex,
Well, if they plan on doing that, are they going to charge the motorcyclists, bicyclists, horseback riders and hikers I've seen on the trails up there to use them also? I doubt it. If a ranger boy starts giving me a load of crap, I'll point to my license plate and say "See I've already paid MY user fee, go bother some bike, horse, bicycle riders. If you can't get money from the Pa DCNR then that's not my problem, it's yours."
I think the idea of "private land" ATV trails is going to be wildly unpopular. Frankly I don't like paying twice just to enjoy my chosen form of recreation. IMHO they can stick those "private" trails where the sun don't shine.
Well, if they plan on doing that, are they going to charge the motorcyclists, bicyclists, horseback riders and hikers I've seen on the trails up there to use them also? I doubt it. If a ranger boy starts giving me a load of crap, I'll point to my license plate and say "See I've already paid MY user fee, go bother some bike, horse, bicycle riders. If you can't get money from the Pa DCNR then that's not my problem, it's yours."
I think the idea of "private land" ATV trails is going to be wildly unpopular. Frankly I don't like paying twice just to enjoy my chosen form of recreation. IMHO they can stick those "private" trails where the sun don't shine.
#6
03-11-2002, 07:37 PM
Also, how can the USFS justify closing the ANF trails due to "warm and wet conditions" when we are in the middle of a drought? I thought that a drought meant that things were supposed to be dry. I guess I just don't have the education or "tree hugging" mentality to understand.
#7
03-11-2002, 08:14 PM
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#8
03-11-2002, 10:00 PM
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I think we should too. I'm thinking July 6th. That's the first weekend in July, and It'd be July 4th weekend. Always a big weekend out on the trail.
What I'm most pissed off about is, they didn't give us any warning or options to respond. I don't mind a fee (but not $35 Wayne only charges $25), I want a plan of action to get in return for my money. They should have had a meeting with us on what we felt what was best for the trail. Cuz 6-8" of gravel laid on a dirt road is a waste of money. And alot of it. We shoot it right off the trail, and people where wrecking on it. They took away all of our jumps, It's a real shame that they're in charge of the trail, and we don't have a say.
What I'm most pissed off about is, they didn't give us any warning or options to respond. I don't mind a fee (but not $35 Wayne only charges $25), I want a plan of action to get in return for my money. They should have had a meeting with us on what we felt what was best for the trail. Cuz 6-8" of gravel laid on a dirt road is a waste of money. And alot of it. We shoot it right off the trail, and people where wrecking on it. They took away all of our jumps, It's a real shame that they're in charge of the trail, and we don't have a say.
#9
03-11-2002, 10:49 PM
I hate to say it, but private trails might be the only salvation for atv'ers in PA. Heck, the hunting community is now doing it with all the leased land and creating private hunting groups (clubs) in essence. Unless atv'ers are going to pay for buying or leasing land to ride on, the trails will continue to shrink.
Also with some of the groups like patvcc going up against the hunters and game commission in PA, a great divide will start to show with more and more posted land and more and more private hunting clubs, etc. It is hapening everywhere across the USA.
Atv'ers have made a mistake going up against the sportsmen of Pennsylvania. It would be far better to have atv'ers and sportsmen working together than fighting each other.
Also with some of the groups like patvcc going up against the hunters and game commission in PA, a great divide will start to show with more and more posted land and more and more private hunting clubs, etc. It is hapening everywhere across the USA.
Atv'ers have made a mistake going up against the sportsmen of Pennsylvania. It would be far better to have atv'ers and sportsmen working together than fighting each other.
#10
03-12-2002, 09:06 AM
Jack,
Well, I for one have nothing against hunters. It's an honorable pastime that's steeped in tradition, not to mention that it does control the wild animal population. I personally believe that no one should ride an ATV on PA game lands during hunting season (excluding the Handicapped).
That being said, the people I don't care for is the Gamer Commission. From what I gather from reading the various Pennsylvania sportsman's magazines, neither do the hunters. These gamer commission people are honestly trying to ruin the sport for the people who pay their salaries (the hunters). Their inflexable attitudes, their Ph.Ds and willingness to change the rules on an almost daily basis, have conspired to make hunting MUCH less fun that it was before the current administration.
Their attitudes about ATVs on game lands, I can understand. That land is set aside for hunters, because it is paid for by hunting licence sales. I wouldn't want someone riding across a field I was trying to hunt in.
What I would like to see is PUBLIC land set aside for us. Where we could go and ride without having to pay a fee. The DCNR could do this, but won't unless the land is FUBAR (like the riding area in Sproul state forest). It constantly amazes me the amount of forest land that is available to have trails built on it, but they won't for one reason or another. Perhaps the reason is because the DCNR is being run by the same people who are against any ATV use (tree huggers). This is why they want ATV usage on private land.
Ask most citizens of PA to name 10 state forests and most will draw a blank after 2 or 3 ( I'd be surprised if they could name one). The reason is because they can't do anything in a state forest. Most people can name the state parks where they can camp, hike, ride bicycles and generally commune with nature. But ask them to name state forests, forget it.
This is where they could put more ATV trails. Not only will you have increased revenue in the surrounding comunities, but the forest would actually get USED for something other than logging. Not to mention that the ATVs would keep the brush beat down on fire breaks and make the area more accessable in case of a forest fire. As it is now, there are thousands of miles of roads that could be opened up for ATVers with little or no environmental impact. But when you have people who run a state agency that are against the very form of recreation that they are charged to provide, you run into problems like this.
Well, I for one have nothing against hunters. It's an honorable pastime that's steeped in tradition, not to mention that it does control the wild animal population. I personally believe that no one should ride an ATV on PA game lands during hunting season (excluding the Handicapped).
That being said, the people I don't care for is the Gamer Commission. From what I gather from reading the various Pennsylvania sportsman's magazines, neither do the hunters. These gamer commission people are honestly trying to ruin the sport for the people who pay their salaries (the hunters). Their inflexable attitudes, their Ph.Ds and willingness to change the rules on an almost daily basis, have conspired to make hunting MUCH less fun that it was before the current administration.
Their attitudes about ATVs on game lands, I can understand. That land is set aside for hunters, because it is paid for by hunting licence sales. I wouldn't want someone riding across a field I was trying to hunt in.
What I would like to see is PUBLIC land set aside for us. Where we could go and ride without having to pay a fee. The DCNR could do this, but won't unless the land is FUBAR (like the riding area in Sproul state forest). It constantly amazes me the amount of forest land that is available to have trails built on it, but they won't for one reason or another. Perhaps the reason is because the DCNR is being run by the same people who are against any ATV use (tree huggers). This is why they want ATV usage on private land.
Ask most citizens of PA to name 10 state forests and most will draw a blank after 2 or 3 ( I'd be surprised if they could name one). The reason is because they can't do anything in a state forest. Most people can name the state parks where they can camp, hike, ride bicycles and generally commune with nature. But ask them to name state forests, forget it.
This is where they could put more ATV trails. Not only will you have increased revenue in the surrounding comunities, but the forest would actually get USED for something other than logging. Not to mention that the ATVs would keep the brush beat down on fire breaks and make the area more accessable in case of a forest fire. As it is now, there are thousands of miles of roads that could be opened up for ATVers with little or no environmental impact. But when you have people who run a state agency that are against the very form of recreation that they are charged to provide, you run into problems like this.