lackdog, I'll be riding with michimaniac in about a week and we were going to head up there (Big Bay). But when I talked to Mary not only did she say no GPSs (by the way I guess I'm cool with that)she also stated in no uncertain terms were we allowed back on the trails that were part of the tour without them. Is this the story that you got from them.
thanks

Steve

 

Lackdog,

Just got off the phone with the owners. These people do not sound at all like they are trying to 'get rich' on tours or be 'trail *****'.

What I gathered from our last conversation is that they are simply trying to preserve a 'quasi-legal' riding area from overexposure and abuse.

They also told me that they HAVE asked you before; NOT to pump us all full of sunshine up here on the net and ruin what is obviously a precarious balance between what is questionably 'open' and slam the door shut 'closed'.

I can only hope you guys keep this in mind when you ride 'after' your guided tour and other people invariably start pumping you for the coordinates.

You certainly owe these people at 'least' that....... merely what you promised the first time you slung a leg over behind the guy that offered to show you 'paradise'.

John

 

Ok, This is ending right here. This thread has gotten totally out of hand. I'll start out by apologizing to Michimaniac. I'm sorry. The way your worded that sentance

"My question would be: where do you tell the guy you went before you crawl back into his bed at night?..............."

sounded sarcastic to me, but I should have read inbetween the lines. The way you made it sound is like I'm kissing their butts, so to speak. So again I'm sorry I hope no hard feelings. Now getting back to this whole GPS and the tours thing. I been going up to Big Bay to ride for a long time now. Not only do I snowmobile up there, but I also go ATV'ing up there too. The tours that the owners of The BB Motel offer are very nice cuze they know the area way better than if someone who never went up there would know it. They have a rule, No GPS's when you take the tour. That rule is very resonable and I respect it. They just don't want you mapping every nook and cranny of the ride they take you on. Now the next day when you go out again on your own and you have your GPS's if you can remember what trails you were on, fine that's great, go back on them. I know they are not trying to get rich on these tours it's just a little extra money for them and a great way for riders to see awesome stuff otherwise hard to find or not findable at all. You don't see me up on this forum posting my track logs for people to download so they can see everything without paying. Even if someone here asked me for them I wouldn't give them to them because I like the owners of the motel and I want to see them make some extra money on this. I have over 1000 miles of track logs of the Big Bay area and I keep coming back and see new things each time. I just posted this thread so all the readers of this forum can go to a great place to ATV. I wasn't trying to stir up any arguements, confuse or misleed anyone. If thats the impresion I gave some of you I am sorry. I just wanted you guys to know of a great place to ride, is that so wrong. Anyway If/When any of you go up there to ride I hope you take the tour one day and you have a great time. I'll be up there next weekend and I know its going to be a great weekend of riding.

HAPPY RIDING.

Dave

 

Lackdog,

My question related to one simple thing that the owner told me (and flipper) regarding the REASON he didn't want a GPS on his trip. Both of them have made it very clear to us that THEY have been given permission to access many parts of their tour which, obviously, no one else from 'downstate' can geographically identify. THUS, Flipper's, again, 'unanswered' question from above:

...... "But when I talked to Mary not only did she say no GPSs (by the way I guess I'm cool with that)she also stated in no uncertain terms were we allowed back on the trails that were part of the tour without them. Is this the story that you got from them?"

They, again obviously, cannot STOP you from going wherever the heck you feel is your right to go. But WHY is this question so hard to answer?

From your quote above; after these owners have asked you (they tell me) to quit posting about their riding area on the internet:

"....... They just don't want you mapping every nook and cranny of the ride THEY take you on........ (I guess that concern only applies for one day)......... Now, THE NEXT DAY, when you go out again on your own and you have your GPS's "if you can remember" what trails you were on, FINE, THAT'S GREAT, GO BACK ON THEM!." (and start mapping?.........is this some kind of wierd, 'memory contest' they put on for their guests?)

These people have told me that they obviously can't police the woods and are merely trying to hold on to what someone has given them the opportunity to enjoy. If they are being less than truthful about this fact and they have no agreement that wishes to protect another entity's property.................CALL THEM ON IT! Easier yet, simply don't believe a word 'anybody' says about who owns what up there and go wherever you please! (we're ALL from either Chicago or Detroit up there and ALL think 'the same way' in their minds.....)

My suggestion is two-fold:

Quit posting on multiple sites, as they have requested, and keep the people that are not as respective (as yourself) from ruining this area for the rest of us. I've seen enough people up on here that don't give a rip about ANYTHING 'rule related' and damn well won't be staying at the 'Big Bay Hotel' when they roll into town wanting to 'tear it up' for the week.

Ask yourself exactly 'what' you possibly could have left out of your conversation with 'them' that caused the confusion 'we' experienced when trying to book the same tour and then asking where we could ride the next day.

Hope you guys have a good weekend up there.

John

 

John,
I have read the post Lackdog had put up, and have read yours (obviously). I would have never found Big Bay if Lackdog would have never posted about B.B. Maybe I can help clarify what Lackdog is doing, or what his intentions are!!
As you know, I have met Lackdog up in B.B. for a ride. I have become friends with Lack, because he is a very respectful person, even though he may not come off on the computer, as such a person. His intent was to give the owners of B.B. a little publicity for business and the town of B.B. as a whole. You see B.B. relies heavily on the winter season for business (snowmobiling). Due to the last winter, the U.P. and B.B as a whole were hurt financially. So all Lack. was attempting to do was stir up a little business for B.B. hotel and the residents of B.B.
Having ridden there a few times myself, and also having taken the tour. Maybe I can clarify the riding situation. The owners take you on tours, asking that you do not take a gps if you have one. When you take the tour, you get a familarity with the area. Some of the areas they take you, are privately owned, and they have permission to ride through the private property. But they also take you on a great deal of public areas as well! What I think Lack was trying to say, was when you take the tour it helps you become familar with the area so the next time you can explore the area yourself, but by no means go and trespass. As for some of the hillbilly's that are able to read, and go to B.B. with the intentions of tearing it up, it is everyone's responsibilty to stop these people from doing so! Because it is these people who ruin it for everyone else. If you see someone doing something wrong, don't be passive and do something about it! Get their sticker# and notify the DNR. Hope I was of some help! Not every atver has bad intentions, and I am thankful for those who post good riding area's.
Mark.....

 

Kez,

I appreciate you taking the time to 'try' and explain why the residents of this area and their customers give two completely different answers to the same question. I take that back, as flipper's question to the customer regarding 'what the customer was told' never 'did' get answered!.........(which is the whole crux of this argument!)

From your quote:
".......His intent was to give the owners of B.B. a little publicity for their business and the town of B.B. as a whole......"

(Again) Why are these people telling me (repeatedly) that they have asked him previously, NOT to do them this 'favor' up on the world-wide net?

(Again) Should we discount these people as 'untruthful'; as this is the 2nd question that refuses to be answered by their customer? Are we all stupid enough to believe that THERE IS NO REASON for these people to ask that you NOT use your GPS? (see flipper's question that basically asks "What the hell DID they tell you?)

From your quote:

....."Some of the areas they take you, are PRIVATELY OWNED and THEY have permission to ride through the private property....."

So...............the owner is tooling along on your tour and suddenly stops....

Gets off his bike and tells you that you are now entering private property and that he will stop each time that you leave this property and enter 'public' lands......also when you leave public and enter private again...

He comments that he will do all of this to ensure that 'when' you come back with your GPS to map this same trail (by memory).........when you get to entrance of the private land again; you'll know to 'check your conscious' and use your 'vast knowledge' of the general area to find a 'public' way around the private route he took you through before........(gimme a break)


From your quote........."But they also take you on a great deal of public areas as well!......"

I'm sorry guys, but I LIVE here in MI. and there is not a public ***TRAIL*** within 50 miles of that place. These areas that you are riding were never legalized by the state and are 'hanging by a thread' from being closed through constant misuse.

And you guys wonder why the owners of this place don't appreciate someone posting a 'how to' primer on-line on getting a guide; then breaking out the GPS afterwards and embracing the 'they can't stop us now' mentality the next day?

I'm sorry if I had to just 'cut to the chase' on this as we have spent WAY too much effort simply trying to figure out who was telling the truth about this area and their business.

Ask some 'former' fellow members of our state atv club and they will tell you that I have (unfortunately) a very low tolerance for 'half the story' and blatantly unanswered questions when it comes to our sport here in Michigan.

That said, I hope you can understand my position and we will wait for the questions I originally posed to (finally) get answered. These people in Big Bay deserve nothing less than to at least have their statements repeated (which 'isn't' happeneing here).

Happy trails and appreciate the tone and professionalism of your take on the situation.

John

By the way, here in Michigan, "getting somebody's number" on a quad is impossible. Stickers are not registered and our local atv club does not keep us 'up to date' on their efforts to do so. This lack of 'communication' on their part would not be so bad if it weren't for one issue.

Ever try to read a reg. number when it was flying by at 'x' miles an hour? Well, the DNR can't either.

How about bending over some guy's quad squinting to read the number after you just witnessed him nearly running over your child? Any potential problem there?

The atv club here in Michigan has an excellent chance to make large numbers a standard (it 'used' to be for snowmobilers)along with registration if they would at least let their members talk about the issue.

Why not? Because (this is a guess) snowmobilers 'killed' this issue long ago because these large numbers didn't look 'cool' with the new graphics that sleds started to come from the factory with.

Would the president of one club (atvers) ever 'dare' bring up ANY issue that the president of another club (see snowmobilers; and on other issues motorcyclists) KNOWS is unpopular with their own members?

This is why we are continually told at the 'peon' member level............."you just don't understand the 'complexities' of the issues like 'we' (me and my fellow orv board members) do"............

 

Hey guys: I thought I would put my two cents worth in this one. I had the opportunity to ride in this area a few weeks ago.It is a nice area but there are certainly other areas that are just as good in the U.P. if not better. There is alot of private property in the Big Bay area. Most of it is in CFR (commercial forrest reserve) which means it is open to the public. All of you should know that just because this property is in CFR does not gaurantee it is open to motor vehicle trafic. The property owner can close this down any time he/she wants to if they see damage ocurring to their property due to motor vehicle traffic. If the guides from Big Bay are asking you to respect their private places, you should respect it. There are hundreds of places throughout the U.P. where you can ride and certainly other options in the Big Bay area to ride to. I would suggest a County Platte book. This will show you most logging trails and secondary roads in the area. If these areas show to much use, the land owner may close them down. Have a good time riding everyone! Drive safe
Jigginjack
2002 Polaris 500 HO Sportsman X
2500 Warn Winch
Polaris Diamond Aluminum Rear Box
Hand warmers
Ability to pull Doc Froggy on his Griz with a single pull!
Charter member of The "HO" Train Iron Range Riders
refrigerator
microwave oven.
more!

 

(Again) From jiggin'jack

".....All of you should know that just because this property is in CFR does not gaurantee it is open to motor vehicle trafic. The property owner can close this down any time he/she wants to if they see damage ocurring to their property due to motor vehicle traffic. If the guides from Big Bay are asking you to respect their private places, you should respect it...."

Thanks for putting this to rest, jack.

John

 

John, if you know so much about Michigan's U.P. then why are you making such a big deal about this unanswered question? Apparently you don't know as much as you think!!! Get a life!! Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill!!! And if you think there is no public land 50 miles around Big Bay, you are sadly mistaken. Mead Paper leases the land from the government, which according to their lease must keep it open to the public, according to the contract they signed. This property is open to motorized vehicles. I too had done a little investigating before I had gone up there.
If you are as outspoken in person as you are on the computer, then you should have no problem getting the number off an ORV sticker. That number identifies the person who had purchased it.
I believe this forum is called Places to Ride, not Places to Cry! I am tired of reading your babble. Get a life, and go riding!!!

 

Kez:
You are correct that there is plenty of public land to ride around the Big Bay area. This will continue as long as riders such as yourself respect it and dont tear it up. However, you are mistaken that Mead leases land from the Government. Mead owns their own property and have the POOREST reputation on land management in the U.P. They do pay timber stumpage on state land. When they get done cutting a parcel of property, there is NOTHING left over. They take everthing including the branches and then replant it with a fast growing "European Larch" or Tamarack which can be recut in 15 years. Alot of the property here in the U.P. is under Commercial Forest Reserve or State land. We are very fortunate to ride almost anywhere we choose including the shouldr of roads in Dickinson and Menominees counties to roads we would normaly have to trailor to. I am happy to find a person that enjoys the U.P. so much. It is a great place to ride. Remember, Mead gets a HUGE tax break by allowing public access to their properties. They are implementing a new management program including gates, and burms to deny access to their properties by any motorized vehicles due to abuse by four wheelers, four wheel drive trucks, and littering. Hopefully this will be kept to a minimum to problem areas.
What we have been seeing here in the U.P. is large land sales. The paper companies such as Mead, Stora Enso, International Paper, etc. have been starting to sell their land holdings in large chunks to private realestate companies. They quickly close down once public riding areas to private property. The U.P. is rapidly shrinking. Enjoy it while you can.
Good riding.
Jigginjack
2002 Polaris X
2500 Warn Whinch
Hand warmers
Charter member The HO train Iron Range riders
Aluminum Diamond Polaris Box