Will be going to Silver Lake next weekend possibly, if anyone would like to meet up let me know. Will also be going up to B.B at the end of Sept. for the Fall colors, heard it is a must ride, if anyone is interested in that ride let me know. Anyone that is, except for Maniac, I mean Michimaniac........

 

Hey John, seems to me we had one hell of a good time riding this past weekend.

Steve

 

Steve,

Thanks again for showing us one of the best times we've ever had on four wheels. Couldn't have asked for a better guide and trail companion. Hope you got the note I dropped off at the Inn regarding our new 'local' guide and the pristine lakes (one cast 'natives' cooked on shore), falls and shoreline he's going to put us on. I thank the Lord constantly that I've met folks like yourself and now him (and 'how many' others) that not only offer to take you to primo ground; but get as excited as I do talking about and doing it!

Anyways, it's a done deal and most details have been taken care of; we just need to show up.

As for my buddy Kez,

It amazes me that someone your age, (I'm assuming you can at least drive), needs to resort to verbal attacks to get your point across. Again, I've called these people several times regarding your claims and they have informed me that there isn't a thing they can do to stop you from GPS mapping the private property they have access to and have so generously shown you with the provisions they have set out.

If you would like the rest of us to believe that their 'no gps rule' is some kind of 'game' they like to play with their guests by encouraging you to 'take' your gps to the same private property the following day...........You've answered question #1 that you've been trying so hard to avoid and refusing to answer. You've also helped solidify, up there at least, a perception of your geographic home being directly linked to your character in general.

These people rely on your money to survive. Most (not all) won't turn that money down when they have no proof that you didn't 'go around' the property they have permission to ride (yeah, right) and can't 'stop' you anyways.

What I'd like to ask right here; is for any others of you that live outside our great state, NOT to take advantage of this situation when you visit us and ride what we have to offer up here.

As for your friend FINALLY 'volunteering' to take this misinformation off the web as the owners have told me more than once that they have requested he do....................................I think everyone on here, by his actions, finally realized why there were certain things you both just 'didn't want to talk about'.

Again, Kez, we just have a differrent 'value system' up here that maybe you and your friend from Chicago might not be familiar with. One can only hope that the 'rest' of the country can understand where we're coming from.

John

 

Wondered why this thread had gotten so long.... John, do you ever quit arguing???

 

Doubleboss,

I suppose the resolution of this matter is somewhat similiar to a couple months ago when you, Doubleboss, 'backed me up' on atvnation regarding another idiot and then, suddenly, 'took it all back' when it was clear you had gotten on the wrong side of 'the quadfathers'.............

.......or does this resemble the time you sent me those e-mails 'ripping' the administration of MATVA because there was only one person that had the ***** to 'publicly' say what needed to be said regarding our sport here in Michigan? Or are you and the club back on speaking terms now?

To answer your question, the reason I've carried this on for so 'excruciating' long is that I'm sick and tired of people posting whatever the hell they want up here on the web (the MATVA's a prime example) and believing that nobody out there is intelligent enough to 'call them' on whatever they've claimed!

These two 'outstaters' with their 'they can't stop me' attitude and 'how to' instructions on 'getting away' with riding private land here in MI. will, in large part, be the reason these areas will eventually be shut down....period.

Sorry I had to tell 'the rest of the story'; but obviously, you've forgotten it...............

John

 

Hehehe... It's like poking a bear with a stick. Your bound to get an snarl... Man, your a grumpy boy.
In regards to the "other idiot", I think he wasn't referencing you at the time. That's why I deleted my post. Not enough info. Had I been sure it was you I'da left it up. Nuf said bout that...
As far as MATVA, I will not be wasting my money there with it's present leadership and lack of financial openness.
As for the tour/GPS issue, both sides seem to conflict each other. Who knows? I'd hate to be told no GPS as I like to go over my travels on map and see what potential routes/features I might have missed. I thought that Lackdog had some sort of vested financial interest in the "tour" as he postings always smacked of advertising. Still enjoyed the picture and stories; however, as we always bring our own accomadations I (unfortunately for the owners) wasn't that interested in the "tour/motel". If it's that important that they not travel on private land sans escort mayhaps they should have informed them when and where escort was necessary. I appreciate your concern for the extra exposure that this "riding area" was getting. Quite frankly, I view good riding areas like a good fishing hole. I ain't tellin...
In summation, I doubt I contributed much to the discussion, but I had fun. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

From Doubleboss,

(Quote) "Hehehe... It's like poking a bear with a stick. Your(You are) bound to get an snarl.........

If this was your reason for joining this conversation.........I've at least gained some insight into what 'drives you' to post on here in the future.

(Quote)....."In regards to the "other idiot", I think he wasn't referencing you at the time. That's why I deleted my post. Not enough info. Had I been sure it was you I'da left it up. Nuf said bout that..."

From private e-mails between this 'idiot' and myself; he made no mistake as to 'who' he was referring to, in his verbal attacks toward myself on the 'nation'. Again, if that's what you're in to; along with your remark immediately afterwards throwing (quote) "kisses and hugs" out to the nation's administration..........give 'em a 'smooch' for me.

(Quote)..."As for the tour/GPS issue, both sides seem to conflict each other. Who knows?........"

Uhhhhhh,........This was the whole issue........'Who knows?' is THAT your contribution to this conversation? Why don't YOU 'spend a nickle' and call the hotel?

(Quote)..."I'd hate to be told no GPS as I like to go over my travels on map and see what potential routes/features I might have missed...."

Yeah, these guys HATE to be told 'what' they can do and 'where' they can ride also; this is why our private landowners are SHOWING US 'what THEY can do' by shutting down our riding areas.

(Quote)..."If it's that important that they not travel on private land sans escort mayhaps they should have informed them when and where escort was necessary....."

THESE PEOPLE TRIED TO MAKE IT SIMPLE! They tell the people that they are going to take them on private land and NOT to bring their GPS's !!! Do you think they are going to take the time to stop and tell these guys every time they go in and out of private land and THEN somehow explain some convuluted way around each parcel through areas they've never even been before? All the time, knowing full well that they can't STOP these people from going back 'the easy way' through that same private land again?

Can't we just 'shake hands' anymore? Or does that old fashioned notion get in the way of 'since you can't stop me; we'll do whatever in the he11 we want'..............

Your last quote).."I appreciate your concern for the extra exposure that this "riding area" was getting....."

Unfortunately, my point 'was' that I don't give a DAMN how much exposure the LEGAL portions of this riding area are getting or if a high rise Holiday Inn has to be built to handle all the people wanting to ride them!

This whole subject (as it was and 'still is' with the Michigan ATV Association) is about TELLING THE TRUTH.

I've merely seen WAY too many people up here think that changing the subject, attacking/discrediting others and the mere passage of time between correspondence are 'effective' ways to talk out their a$$es and not get called on it.

If I'm the only one willing to talk about these things and how they definitely reflect on our sport as a whole and the people in it........keep those cards and letters coming and 'don't hold back'.

John

 

Had I known that he had targeted you specifically I would have and still do stand with what I originally said. It was a cowardly attack regardless of whomever the intended recipient was and did little for the tenor of that board. I still think that the Nation runs a great board. I'm sorry that discomforts you so...
In regards to the whole private land issue this thread has mainly been about, "If it is a private land based tour, why are the tour owners allowing people to ride the next day unsupervised?" That seems to be the crux of the whole issue. If there IS so much concern on their part with unauthorized riding, why not nip it in the bud. Quite simply, you don't ride from our motel without a guide...
John, I appreciate your commitment to clarifying the truth, but quite frankly flailing around in every direction with your "big stick" tends to do little in the way of convincing and even cause some "friendly fire" casualties. Argue away, but do it with some constraint. You ain't winnin' the war, my friend, your just turning everybody off.
Been poked enough yet?[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

 

DoubleBoss,

(From your quote above)....."Had I known that he had targeted you specifically I would have and still do stand with what I originally said. It was a cowardly attack regardless of whomever the intended recipient was and did little for the tenor of that board"........

Let me get this straight.....a guy makes a 'cowardly attack' that wasn't within the board's guidelines; but it's 'alright with you' because it was directed towards somebody you disliked; namely me?!

You should actually consider signing up to be a 'nation' moderator as that is the EXACT same philosophy 'they' use to make sure none of their 'buddies' ever have to explain themselves!...... Heck, you could even 'creatively' delete posts so that only part of what's said is actually viewed; post factually incorrect and unsafe information; refuse to answer private e-mails to get issues RESOLVED; accuse people of being friends with some guy named "Clay the Dictator" over at 'the time' and maybe even 'ban' people outright, while refusing to give a reason, but continue telling everybody else that the person is welcome to post! (those 'kisses and hugs' you sent out to them might be a bit much, though.....)

Out of all the ridiculous crap I've had to view on this subject; this following quote from you 'takes the cake' and pretty much tells me who I'm dealing with here....................

.........."In regards to the whole private land issue this thread has mainly been about, "If it is a private land based tour, why are the tour owners ALLOWING people to ride the next day UNSUPERVISED?" That seems to be the crux of the whole issue. If there IS so much concern on their part with unauthorized riding, why not nip it in the bud. 'Quite simply'; YOU DON'T RIDE FROM OUR MOTEL WITHOUT A GUIDE".........

I just plain give up..............call me anything you want from here on out because I refuse to argue anymore with folks on this intelligence and 'memory' level.

Outta here!

 

No... My comments were specific in their nature; thus, I wanted to know exactly who was being referenced. I don't fly off the handle like some I know...
Couldn't argue with my "No guide, No ride" idea, ay?!! Just gonna give up and leave? Ever consider that you're not ALWAYS right?[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img] I think under the rules of debate I won, by the way... Course my being some dumb and all...
For those who joined late, sorry to waste the bandwidth. Old story, had the time to play with it.. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img]