Got to love that van [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

I dont want to completely change the direction of this thread but lets just say that after spending a few years there, and watching the site grow, finding many great people and new friends to talk and ride with etc, helping out and getting help from more people than I can remember, posting more indepth 440 set up and design info and just learning and sharing my experience etc I found the new ownerships ignorant way of trying to censor the posts and even the thoughts of its members to be completely unacceptable and then their arrogant and assenine response to my thoughts and ideas and defense of what was real and true etc more than turned me off.

Then toss in a new commercial attitude that put $$$ in front of the truth, and how they were hiding advertising as parts of threads, and how certain moderators were allowed to have advertising and anyone else who had interests in the same business was taunted and ganged up on, and how unusuall things were just appearing from no ware only later to be known that it was a "window dressing" for a new advertizer or mag add etc, and then to top it all off the owner lying to me to my face (and prob behind my back also).

So yea I have a reason or two. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Now back to the thread (Be happy to answer it all in detail if you want to start another thread but I dont want to mess up this one.)

 

Jakal,
I see your point but the rincon team only won it's class (big 4-wheel drive thing class). The 450 overalled the ATV Open race against all other quads racing. I've been on many parts of the Baja 1000 race course on quads and race cars and it's no small achievment to win - especially against the fast boys. At a minimum it demostrates good reliability (although Honda likely had trailers full of parts and mechanics if need be).

Being a yam fan it pains me to think Honda did well but.....where the heck was Team Yamaha ?

 

I know what you mean very well, but I have to agree with Honda on a business standpoint even if I dont from a riders view.

Would you rather your company be known for producing a product that can be made to be the or one of the best performing, or the one that is the best performing but is allways having problems. The negative opinion of the average rider that would be created from continous problems wouldnt be worth any gain from pushing the envelope etc.

I am thinking that neither of these machines are ready to race out of the box but there closer to the cannondale than any other produced yet. Figure that initially there will not be as much work needed in the engine so you can concentrate on the suspension and all the little stuff that needs to be done. Surely after a year or so when the average racer starts looking for an advantage over the other guys with the same model the cases are coming off of both these machines, and the pro level guys are into them allready.

Cant wait to see how the FST trx500r performs!!!

 

Yeah, it is funny how everyone is putting down the Raptor since the YFZ....yet the YFZ has yet to show me they are anything more then the Raptor. I don't guess anyone understands how much the Raptor was detuned from what it could be. You can keep the stock bore of the rappy, and swap a cam and 12:1 piston in it and the YFZ doesn't even run with it. But these new 450's don't impress me overall, the yfz is a great machine, and I can't wait for the release of the R so that they can get the initial racing overwith and done...then the Raptor guys can go in and stomp both of them. LOL

I'm just rambling on.

Sorry.

 

Damn right you are. I don't know where you ride, but if you come to the sand (where I ride), I'll show you what yer raptor don't have on my YFZ. You'd be sucking roost all the way.

Man you talk a heap o shift!

 

I won't argue with you there.

Geoff.

 

I think though you pretty much made the point you are not seeing it.

Besides the reliability problems you didnt mention (trust me I know them, theres an 02 here and thank God its not an 01) you pretty much nailed it on the performance shortfall of the raptor engine wise. Sure you can add the things you mention and your correct from what I have found about it being detuned etc but this is the issue that I was talking about earlier. With the 450 engine yamaha decided to unplug the HP rather than detune it, so you can but dont have to do all the mods you mentioned since the 450 engine performs as well or better than the 660 in stk form.

The other point here is that unlike doing similar mods to my or anyones 400ex to increase performance etc the raptor was not the best design of chassis and suspension and will never handle as well as the EX or the YFZ. So even with the unplugging of the power you can not utilize much of it unless your only racing in straight lines. Would it be a kick azz quad thats a blast to ride and great on the trails or for play racing? Sure it is and the one here still has the stk piston and suspension and I still have had a lot of fun on it, from my experience just add a good exhaust, intake, get it jetted right and throw in a couple other tricks on the engine then just add a wider axle and its a fun riding machine with plenty of power (especially on the bottom end which is fine with me) but I wouldnt bring it to the next race and be the one riding it. Look at how many raptors you see at the races compared to 400ex's, 250r's or even the YZF450 and then look at the podium. Theres a reason for this and its called handling. Some very talented people tried racing the raptor when it first came out and I dont know one who had any real success or is still using it today, and this tells us something.

Hope you get my point as this is much more than just a jab at the raptor, and I think most agree that Yamaha could have done better when designing it.

 

I beg of you guys to lower a Raptor. Anyone with a raptor needs to put on a front lowering kit, and then lower the back and ride it.....it's a completely differnt bike. You can trust me when I say that there is many many EX riders around here, and most of them will tell you after riding a lowered Raptor that it has very similar handling characteristics after lowering the Raptor. The tippy feeling is completely gone. The bike steers through corners instead of rolling out of them because you can't cut the handle bars through the turn.

And as for the YFZ's in the sand....I don't have a clue how they do. Selector do you not see my location on the left. I'm from the mountains of WV. I don't ride in sand. I've posted two or three times that I don't ride in sand. I have never road in sand. I don't know how any quad handles or rides in sand. But like I posted.....when racing on pavement and what not it's a differnt story. Maybe you can come ride here and I'm sure there is banshee's and raptors all around here that will blow you up.

 

I was talking about the EX's. Once again, I didn't say anything about the YFZ's suspension or how they handle and someone is jumping the gun. Man what is with you guys assuming and cutting fits over nothing??? The YFZ I rode handles good but the seat was stiff and hard. They handle turns and everythign awesome though, similar to the way my Raptor now handles turns and switchbacks in the road. But again.....I never said anything bad about the YFZ.

I'm seriously begining to wonder what is with everyone over the past 24hrs?

 

You'll find the answers in the mirror.




Geoff.