Last weekend I finally got up the nerve to give my '00 Kodiak a swim. I dunked it over the racks for a distance of about 15yds out into a pond. I was incredibly nervous that my belt would slip, or something would short out. There were 0 problems, and it swam like a fish. Once I got my courage up I continued to play in the water for over an hour. No quirks followed suit, and it continues to run like a champion. I would not hesitate to cross a gut over the handlebars. I will admit that a 300 Honda is the best deeep water bike ever, but look out Honda boys, here comes some competion that will run beside you in the water, and leave you in the dust everywhere else. Please reply if you have submerged your Kodiak for long periods of time. Thankyou

 

If the water is over your handlebars, then your quad is completely submerged.

If your quad is completely submerged, then your air box will be full of water, as will your carburetor, engine and exhaust, and you will be going nowhere.

With a seat height of 32-inches and an air intake snorkel perhaps a few inches higher, the kodiak may be good in water up to just shy of three feet.

With a handlebar height of 44-inches, water over the handlebars would put your air intake under at least 8-inches of water. Once this happens, your Kodiak will resemble a submarine... the Russian Kursk to be specific.

All I can say is if you take your Kodiak into water over the handlebars, can I watch?

Army Man

 

Army Man,
You need to ride in some swamps. I had a 350 ER for five years and rode it in water over the handlebars all the time. The front end would bounce up and get a breath every now and then, and it kept running. If you let off the gas however, you will fill the engine. I know it doesn't make any sense from a technical point of view. I completely understand the concept of air flow through an engine and have no idea why they will run while submerged. However, I do know that they swim. A friend of mine rides his bike underwater everyday of duckseason, and has been doing so for 20yrs. His only problem is that he doesn't have any brakes whatsoever. You really need to take a swamp trip and see how capable atv's are. I promise you will have a great time and be amazed.

 

The laws of Physics are immutable. If your air intake remains completely submerged for even the briefest length of time, the engine will draw water into the carburetor and stop running.

One of two things may be happening. First, the water is not as deep as you seem to think, and thus the air intake is in fact not submerged.

Or second, the bottom of the watercourse is extremely uneven and the air intake may be alternately below and then above the surface of the water. Even if this is the case, any amount of prolonged "porpoising" will ultimately cause the airbox to fill with water and the motor will stop when the water reaches the carburetor.

Unfortunately, I have first hand experience with drowning a quad. It happened to me, and it happened in water that was not even close to my handlebars. My Bayou 400's snorkel air intake is just under the gas tank. When crossing a stream about 75 feet wide, and maintaining about 3/4 throttle in first gear, I got into water just over my front rack, and just slightly higher than the bottom of my gas tank. In the space of about ten feet my airbox filled with water and my Bayou sputtered to a stop.

I would really like to see anybody drive their quad in water over the handlebars for more than just a few feet. I really don't think it can be done.

Army Man

 

I also have had my Kodiak in pretty deep and swift water without problems! My bike seems to float for the most part with water only about two and a half feet deep. I also went across a "puddle" I thought was shallow but was infact over the hood! No problems again, the only problem I have had is the headlights keep falling out into the lamps.
Be safe and great riding to you all.
Bama/Fairbanks,Alaska

 

Army Man,
I am not lying to you. I know when water is over the handlebars, and I know that I have ridden in water over the handlebars numerous times. There are a lot of people who have done the same. The reason your bike drowned out was because it was made by Kawasaki. I have crossed a river that the Bayou 220 in front of me drowned in. I suggest looking up websites of clubs that ride in swamps and deep water and asking them if they ever ride over the handlebars. I would assume the serious ones do. If that doesn't work, ask any avid duck hunter who rides 4-wheelers in flooded timber. Good Luck!

 

JPC, I also have a Kodiak 2000. How you was able to go 15 yards with water completely over your racks without the belt slipping, this I know can be done. Due to the way the belt air intakes are situated as long as a steady forward momentum is kept you won't take on much (if any) water for the belt.

As far as not taking water into the carb while driving in water above the handlebars. Well, on the Kodiak I know of only two ways this can be done. 1) Must use a snorkel. 2)The air intake for the carb is only completely submerged for a few seconds.

I have run extensive high water tests with my Kodiak. And there are two things that I have learned. 1) Steady forward momentum will keep water out of the air intake for the belt. 2) The gas tank can only be submerged for a max of three seconds. Anything longer and your carb will take on water. And the reason one can even hope to get three seconds is because an air pocket is created under the gas tank and it's this air that the carb is taking in. However, that pocket of air is small and does not last very long at all.

 

JPCIII,

I have spent some additional time mulling over your assertion that you, and others, routinely ride in water over the handlebars. I have concluded that it is indeed possible, but only for the briefest period of time. To remove the hearsay nature of the evidence in this case, let’s do the math.

You have postulated a quad can run with the air intake completely submerged in water for some period of time. I have asserted that the period of time in question is very brief. The following mathematical calculations will eliminate the guesswork, and within certain limits provide us with a definitive answer regarding the maximum amount of time an engine will run underwater when connected to a finite air supply.

I will make all calculations based on the physical dimensions of my Bayou 400 because I have direct access to all of the pertinent measurements.

We will proceed from the assumption that a completely submerged air intake constitutes a closed system. In this situation the only air available to the motor is that which is contained in the snorkel tube, the air box, the carburetor, the carburetor air horn, and the engine intake port. Each time the engine fills the cylinder on the intake stroke, 400cc of air is removed from the system and 400cc of water takes its place.

Let us now proceed to closely approximate the volume of air contained in this system.

The snorkel air tube is about 2-inches in diameter and about 12 inches long. Using the formula for the volume of a cylinder (pi*r*r*h) and multiplying by the number of cubic centimeters in a cubic inch we get;

3.14159*1*1*12*16.387 = 618

The volume of the snorkel air tube rounded to the nearest cubic centimeter.

The air box on the Bayou is partially rectangular, and partially trapezoidal. To approximate the useable volume of the airbox, we must calculate the volume of the rectangular portion and add it to the calculated volume of the trapezoidal portion. To err on the side of longer run-times, we will discount the volume of those items which act to reduce the internal volume of the airbox. These items are; the air filter, and the various internal airbox projections used to mount the air filter and the airbox lid.

The rectangular portion of the air box measures 4-inches along the longitudinal axis (length) of the quad, 7-inches along the lateral axis (width) of the quad, and 9-inches deep. Even though the airbox is 9-inches deep, due to the diameter of the air filter, the actual height of the top of carburetor air horn port in the side wall of the airbox is only 7-1/2-inches. So the final 1-1/2-inches of airbox depth is essentially unusable. However, again to err on the side of longer run-times, we will include that lost volume in our calculations. Using the formula for the volume of a cube (l*w*d) and multiplying by the number of cubic centimeters in a cubic inch we get;

4*7*9*16.387 = 4130

The volume of the rectangular portion of the airbox rounded to the nearest cubic centimeter.

The trapezoidal portion of the air box measures 4-inches along the longitudinal axis (length) of the quad, 7-inches along the long lateral axis (width) of the quad, 4-1/2-inches along the short lateral axis (width) of the quad, and 9-inches deep. The simplified formula for calculating the volume of a trapezoidal cube considers the trapezoid to be comprised of two rectangles. The smaller of which is comprised of the two triangles at either side of the large rectangular portion of the trapezoid. Using the simplified formula for the volume of a trapezoidal cube (l1*w1*d1)+(l2*w2*d2)/2 and multiplying by the number of cubic centimeters in a cubic inch we get;

(4*4.5*9)+(4*2.5*9)/2*16.387 = 3392

The volume of the trapezoidal of the portion of the airbox rounded to the nearest cubic centimeter.

The carburetor is 32mm in diameter and about 2-inches (51mm) long. Using the formula for the volume of a cylinder (pi*r*r*h) we get;

3.14159*1.6*1.6*5.1 = 41

The volume of the carburetor rounded to the nearest cubic centimeter.

The carburetor air horn is about 32mm in diameter and about 6-inches (152mm) long. Using the formula for the volume of a cylinder (pi*r*r*h) we get;

3.14159*1.6*1.6*15.2* = 122

The volume carburetor air horn of the rounded to the nearest cubic centimeter.

The internal volume of the engine intake port can only be guessed at. So for the sake of argument, let us postulate that it is equal to the internal volume of the carburetor.

Therefore the total air volume of our closed system is:

618+4130+3392+41+122+41 = 8344

I previously stated that I was crossing the stream at about ¾ throttle. My Bayou redlines at 6000 RPM, so ¾ throttle is 4500 RPM. Again to err on the side of longer run-times, and to make the calculations easier to follow, let us postulate that my actual engine RPM was 3600.

At 3600 RPM the intake valve on a four-stroke engine opens 1800 times per minute, or 30 times per second. Since the actual displacement of my Bayou 400 is 391cc, the amount of air passing through the engine in one second is represented by the equation:

(1800/60)*391 = 11730

To calculate the engine run-time of a closed system with a finite air supply, we have only to divide the air volume of our closed system by the air volume consumed by our engine per unit time:

8344/11730 = .71

The closely approximated run-time of my Bayou 400 with the air intake completely submerged in water is less than ¾ of a second!

I previously stated that I had traveled about 10 feet with my air intake completely submerged. Postulating a first gear speed of about 5 MPH, and discounting loss of tire traction on the slippery creek bottom, my distance traveled, by changing miles per hour to feet per second, can be calculated as follows:

(5280/3600)*5*.71 = 5.2

While I overestimated the distance I traveled in deep water (actually little more than a quad length), this figure still jibes very well with the details as I previously reported them.

You said, “The reason your bike drowned out was because it was made by Kawasaki”. This is nothing but a scurrilous, puerile slur spoken from the “brand loyalty” ignorance that all too often infects this Forum. I am not offended by it, and I will chalk it up as the youthful indiscretion it is. However, you may wish to verify your facts prior to the next time you decide to denigrate someone else’s quad.

So, to stay strictly with the facts, the reason my Bayou 400 sputtered to a stop is because the air intake remained completely submerged for less time than it takes to blink.

The average human reaction time to stimulus is about ¾ of a second. Highly trained athletes, and Western gunfighters (at least in the movies), can generally do twice as well as the average human, reacting in about 3/8 of a second. In the 3/8 of a second remaining between reaction time and exhaustion of the engine air supply, not even a highly trained athlete could accomplish any meaningful quad saving measures once he realized he was in water too deep.

The conclusion to be drawn from quads venturing into water over the handlebars is, yes they will run while submerged, but probably not long enough for the riders to extricate themselves from their predicament.

I doubt the internal air volume of the Kodiak’s air intake system is terribly different from that of my Bayou. Any differences can probably be measured in hundredths of a second of run-time.

The final conclusion to be drawn here, is that no one could have been in water deep enough to completely submerge their air intake and not drown their quad. The mathematical proof is right here in this post. I challenge anyone to provide proof, not hearsay evidence mind you, but PROOF to the contrary.

Army Man

 

I think you have too much time on your hands! I do agree with you though, no quad can run completely submerged without drowning out unless you are running a snorkel.

 

3/4 second vs. 3 second max estimate. What can I say, I'm a lousy judge of time. I'm certainly not going to argue with mathmatics. I know (oh gawd don't I know) that you can't completely submerge an atv for any extended period of time without a snorkel.