............I dont need to "accept" time as you say, as time is going to happen with or without me. All I am getting at is I DONT HAVE TO LIKE IT, for particular reasons, which I have clearly shown. IT is more expensive, it can be a total hassle to mess with, and power can be permanently taken away. Its more ways to restrict emissions!
I will argue this too. If you are in need of replacing a carb on a particular machine because its too small now and you have power to gain still, then same will happen with a throttle body!

 

135bomb,

I think you are letting your "I dont have to like it" mentality to get in the way of your opinion. All the reasons you state are half truths or incorrect all together.

1) It is more expensive initially, but less expensive later. Simply because the stock injectors with thier throttle body can be manipulated way more than a carb ever could. You'd need to take the 700R way above 150 horsepower before thats a problem. I speak, because I know. Thats right, I actually know how much the stock injectors in the 700R can be manipulated. Do you?

2) I know of no current EFI controller that is what you say a "hassle". If you use carb logic, you can manipulate your injectors. Now, you may be basing your opinions on some of the sled controllers out there that use several different RPM ranges and at least 3 load specs for every range. In this ATV technology has by-passed Sleds. As mentioned before, you have all the carb circuits that you currently use to push a button on the new EFI controllers to change. Thats a fact - I've adjusted with both, and the new ones are simple simon. Have you ever tried both? I have.

3) EFI produces a more effiecient way to burn the fuel. That means I dont have to go to camp and fill up as often. Thats a good thing. If it keeps the EPA happy, it keeps me happy.

4) As far as speed limits, in case you didnt realize, these are race parts. And the laws that follow race parts are clear. We, in America, dont ride our quads on the street, therefore, those regulations do not apply. What can be done, can be undone, as long as its used for off road use.

As far as trying to apply your argument with road use vehicles, just consider how many controllers are out there for Diesel engines. Another benefit is Nitrous. There are controllers out there that automatically switch to a nitrous/fuel map when the "go baby" button is pressed. Nitrous has been used this way in sleds for 4 years now with astounding results. There is no industry that has accepted nitrous more than the sled industry.

Next .....

 

Well thats a good way for me to raise the BS flag right there. 150 horse huh? ANd of course you have that 150 horse 700 right. Or is this just in theory, which own be accurate, because that will all come down to air flow both in and out, and the restrictions of that TB. IN theory maybe the numbers come out right for ya, but I dont know where you are getting accutate enough numbers to make claims like that? there is a lot of variables.
But, maybe you have a 150 horse 700.......... Maybe you have come up with some mathimatical way to find that out. I dont know, but I am questioning if you do either. I have a suspicion that this is all in theory.

Secondly, this post says advantages and disadvantages. I posted my opinions on both advantages and disadvantages. I clearly stated that one of the #1 reasons I dont like it is cost. Second, more ways for the epa to get into you quad and possibly permanently take away power, or speed. Third, and the one that mosting hits home to me, is the weight. I dont want electric start and all the electrics that come with it. I could lose close to 15 lbs on my yfz by ditching that crap.

I think FI in whole is a hassle to work on, if you ahve to go beyond the push button efi controller. Even then, I think that a pain for like the power commander. You ahve to get a laptop, down load maps, up load them to the quad..........na na na, I will ahve already been out riding by the time all that crap is done! Not to mention, with a lot more money in my pocket!

As far as carbs go, you can not deny that they are very much still around, and are the preferred method of racers and dragsters......wonder why that is?????????????? Guess i wont "die" with the technology after all.

Look, I dont want to et into this anymore than I already have. MY experience with fi has led me to by belief. that doesnt mean you ahve to share the same opinioon or belief. My streetbikes where always more snappy with a carb setup than with fi. When I work, or try to work on my cars, its always a big pain, because Its all electronic and nothing is easy anymore. Its all gone aways from mechanical, and just having it be a garage project.

This is my opinion, and I am sure others agree. ......................The good news is though, you dont have to!

 

One other thing I forgot to mention. To the weekend rider and regular joe, FI is too complex to be messing with extensively. Thats really cool if you have a really good knowledge of it, but for most people, we dont. Its a lot more complex, with a lot of sensors, electrics, and things that we cant mechanically change and get our hands on!

 

Again 135boom your knowlege is limited. Its easier to push a button than to replace a jet. But, if you've never done that, I suppose that ignorance is bliss. EFI is specifially made for the weekend rider and weekend racer. The fact that you've never tried it, simply bolsters my point. I can think of nothing better than to push a button to lean or richen the fuel. But, you've pretty much established that you are anti technology. I bet you still spin your own yarn, go to the creek and get your water, and cook on an open camp fire. There, now does't that seem safe? No technology to come loose on you. How is it that you ever trusted your personal computer and post on these forums anyways?

 

I guess so. I dont think its ignorance though. Your talking about a highly complex EFI system that requires a lot of knowledge, that the vast majority of weekend riders and regular dudes DONT know!
And I still rest my case.....it is expensive! If you pipe and intake a yfz its going to be less than a pipe and intake on a 700! thats what a lot of people end up doing on there machines! Then they get that ecu and are totally confused.
And, mark my words, that FI is going to enable more restrictions to be put on machines in the future, over sticking with carburated machines.
And for some reason, I think its going to hit quads the worst, cause of all the hipe and focus on 4-wheelers and people being idiots on them and killing themselves. TOO many lawsuits. It still cracks me up that a 12 year old can go get on a yz250 or a yz450f, but they cant ride a warrior cause he's not 16!!!!

 

...........I dont have to work on the computer or the forum!

 

Sure you do! You push a button and you expect it to work. Why, because it did yesterday. They call that faith. You trust Microsoft, and your virus protection software to do its job. Thats why they get paid the big bucks. The EFI computer in an ATV is not that much different than a computer on a forum. You have input, and output. Further, your experience with EFI has to do with automobiles. A lot has changed from that 80's technology. Nobody is asking you to tear a chip out of the EFI controller, because you wont have to. What you will have to do is understand tuning just like you did with a carbed ATV. Its the tuners that understand air/fuel ratios and how mods affect them that will make the money in this industry. But walking away from a quad that has EFI because they want it to go faster, will be money lost for those builders. Afterall, the tools are the only thing thats changed!

 

well, for clarification, I am not going to turn away from one of there FI quads, as I am always replacing a couple year old machines.
I think I will be hanging onto my 06 yfz as long as I can though, untill FI proves itself worthy on the yamahas. I gotta tell you, I wasnt to happy when yamaha was claiming you just through a pipe on and the FI adjusts. YEAH RIGHT! Now instead of buying a $500 dollar exhaust and being done with it, were spending another $300! AND, the fi on the low end of the 700 anyway doesnt seem as responsive as the old twin carb 660. It certainly doesnt have the crisp, quick rev of the yfz's keihin FCR! Seems pretty slugish in comparison to me. But maybe I have my carb setup perfect! That was the way of my old 900rr and the new 929rr. Same with my old vfr interceptor and now the new one (or atleast my 2000). Dont get me wrong, on the bikes I prefer FI. But the crisp quick hit on the bottom isnt there with FI, atleast the FI's that I am referring too!

 

135boom,

Im glad you are open to the possibility that someone can make an EFI system as crisp as the carb. There are two ways that can happen. One, the right controller and two (I'll keep that one to myself). You are well taken care of on the 700R. But you are very correct in saying that Yamaha reps mispoke when they said it self adjusts. This is a open loop system, closed loop systems have a cheap sniffer they stick in there (like your automobile example) and makes very lame adjustments to the EFI. This is different, and thank God they put a open loop system in there. The best sniffers on the market simply are not quite good enough, yet, to make the A/F judgements. However, the Bosch sniffers are great to have a human make the decisions based the meter reading, they simply are not durable enough yet, to put in a multi-fuel, full time, environment to make EFI decisions. However, that will probably change over time.