This topic is for very aggressive riders, who either race or are getting into racing, (like myself)...who have mx track experience and lots of large jumping experience...and when i mean large jump experience...40'+ double jumps and the like...

I practice racing my raptor at Uxbridge Motor Sports Park in Mass. This track is primarily a motocross track with large jumps…. 80% of the time when I hit the 50’ uphill double jump I fly my raptor straight and level…it’s so much fun and a great rush… however 10% of the time I jump my quad the quad rotates in the air so I land with the rear tires offset to one side from the front tires… "land crooked" to all that have done this is it very dangerous and scary… I haven’t lost it yet, but had the rear of the quad swap positions hard and fast...sooner of later i am going to high side it on the landing and put a world of hurt on me and my raptor… I can’t clear the 50’ uphill double because I am afraid to hit the jump faster to clear it…due to the rotation is the air… I am in need of some riding technique advice…please if you have the experience tell me / educate me…

Here is some discription of the jump in question...it's an uphill 50' double..the approach to the jump is prolly 30 degree incline, the jump takeoff lips is well rounded,, and the takeoff lip is not level with the horizon...however...general knowledge of what causes the quad to rotate is what i am requesting...

1) how do I totally avoid having my quad rotate in the air,, during the approach,,, at the jump lip,,,body position..ect

2) if the quad does rotate in the air, can I correct it in the air, and what can I do to minimize the rear swapping effect when I land “not straight”…

3) lastly…what cause the quad to rotate in the air (varibles that lead to the rotation)…please be as specific as possible…if have a mechanical engineering degree…so will be able to understand technical language…as long as it is descriptive…


ps… I have basic knowledge of the “gyro effect” and utilize it when I jump…

herbdon out….

 

Just my experience with some smaller jumps...

the rear end of the bike swinging out can be caused by a couple of factors. "i had the same problem with smaller jumps, and asked a racer what causes this, and had him help me"...and these are the reasons he gave me.

1) You are hitting the jump at a weird angle and then trying to correct it after take off by either leaning or truning the bars just slightly befoe they leave the ground

2) You are putting more weight on one leg than the other which puts more pressure on one side of the bike than the other side. kinda like leaning into a turn.

3) You are turning the bars slightly right before they leave the jump.

Hope this helps!!

i'll see the guy this sat or sunday, and ask him again cause i think i forgot a point

 

thanks for the information honda205x...didnt think anyone was going to provide any information to my request...highly appreciate it...i went to the track on thursday...and i discovered something about jumping big...if i stay in the saddle at takeoff the bike flys flat and true...on smaller jumps i can lift my butt off the seat and still fly true...on the big ones i have to stay in the seat...your suggestion #1 and #3 was something that i have corrected a while ago...and i have good consistency with staying straight on the takeoff....your #2 suggestion is something that i never even considered...and i will bet the pink slip on my raptor that...unequal weight on the foot pegs is causing me to spin in the air...i am going up to Uxbridge (my mx track) today... to try out your #2 suggestion...i will try to get the bike to spin and get the bike not to spin...i will report back on my results at the track....and again...thanks for the inform...you may be the factor that will enable me to clear that 50' double....herbdon out...

 

herbdon, check out the august issue of 4 wheel atv action. they have a whole article on how to jump.

 

I've been racing for a couple years... and have done this many times.

1: If you possibly can, get off your bike.. and walk the jump. Get a good feel for it..And, try to level it out. If one tire's in the air before the other, you're gonna get sideways. Practice your takeoff, and make sure you're straight with the landing. If you jump to the left, or to the right of the landing, you will also land sideways.

2: If your backend does get out in the air, try to swing it back around. I know the Raptor is a little heavy to flick it around, but it's better than nothing. Whichever way the back end is going, put your weight the other way, and try to "flick" the backend around!

3: Many things can cause the bike to rotate. If your tires are spinning when you are leaving the jump, you will slide, and get crooked. Make sure you are on the power, but your tires aren't spinning wildly. The jump, like you said, is crooked.. yes, you will fly weird. Pay attention to what you're doing the 80% of the time, and correct the other 20%. Do it just the same. Confindence comes with practice.

 

Not going to waste my time answering since it was already answered but what does 1998 susuki quadrace lt250r sold for retainer...hehe...oops.. mean?

 

On the tracks I ride on I get those crazy jumps too. Usually it's when the two-wheelers prefer one side of a jump to the other, and therefore make the take-off surface uneven. I just figured that was what an off-camber jump was. There are also a few jumps that have a lip on the very edge of them that bump my back-end in the air! My 400 is pretty light, and responds well to body english in the air, but the Raptor is heavier, and harder to move around. And I don't know if this is proper technique or not, but I jump standing up on my footpegs. Even the big-air jumps. Is that something I shouldn't be doing? I've never asked before, just did what felt good.....I feel like I have more control over my bike that way....any feedback?

Corry [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

I don't think you can totally avvoid a rotation from your quad in the air, but you can surely minimize it.

#1 (ABSOLUTE FIRST)
You have to know how it's gonna react (from previous jumps, watching the takeoff)...if you're suprised by the way it acts in the air...there's nothing you'll be able to do.

I'm more an "in air" controller than a before take off controller, but be sure you have the same weight on each one of your legs (it's alredy been said, I think). Youi said that you jumped better when sitting down...that's where your problem is. Jumping sitting down will make you eventually loose time, since you will jump higher...but not further.
While in the air, if the jump is big enough, you should be able to move your quad around. You have to hold it tight with your legs (it will also "rest" your arms), and move it around with your legs, and up and down, with your arms.

You might want to check (if it's not been done) if both tyres are inflated the same...and if wind isn't blowing (do I need to mention it is SCARY to feel your bike is being pushed away...and you see the landing zome going away?)...you might want to cut your fenders to reduce this kind of aerodynamical "risk"


On a 50' double, you should have time to move it back almost straight...use your legs!!!

 

Hope that you get this worked out. glad that i could help...hope that i did....let me know if you how you do this weekend, and if you get any more info. post it, and we'll see what we can do. there seems to be plenty of intellegent people on this post!! good luck, and let us know how this worked out.

 

ok..as i stated before thanks for all the responses....

to answer ltracerx's question ..."Not going to waste my time answering since it was already answered but what does 1998 susuki quadrace lt250r sold for retainer...hehe...oops.. mean?"

retainer as in for a lawyer...to keep it short...police officer...me being a 20 year old...going to grateful dead concert in full grateful dead apparel...with a pocket full of hash...any more questions...

ok...i went to the track again on Saturday...i did lots of jumping...i watched my takeoffs...and my weight distribution on the pegs...i was able to move the raptor around in the air...and did so with great success...i jumped sitting and standing...i jumped purposely trying to spin the quad and corrected it in the air...gripping the quad with my legs helps alot...once i am in the air i can flick the rear around with my legs...by the end of my day on saturday...i did clear the 50' double and was very proud of myself and your guys...information is a great thing...my confidence was way up...jumping was a total thrill...thanks for the information again...the only thing i need to do now...is get triple rate elka' with SSD...the damn stock shocks on the raptor are great for trails but suck on mx tracks...with big jumps...
thanks again....herbdon out...