EXHAUST POLL FOR RAPTOR!!!!!!!!!!!
#11
09-17-2001, 03:10 PM
Right now I have the White Bros. E-Series. but with stock air filter and jetting. WoulD I be better off just staying with this system and putting in a Pro Design filter kit and jet kit??? One of the reasons why I 'm thinking about the full system is that I can't stand the way the stock head pipe looks after it gets hot with dirt and mud. Also I don't really care for the disc design, even though some say it is the set up I think it doesn't look right.
#12
09-17-2001, 04:30 PM
IronBear,
It is hard to say how much louder than stock (at least twice as loud). I can tell you it is not as loud as a Big Gun. I don't like loud bikes and I don't find this setup offensive. I have to ride through a couple of neighborhoods to get to the trails. I was concerned that it would be so loud that the neighbors would complain but I can take it easy and it isn't bad.
The difference in power is night and day. You can easily pull stock gearing with this setup. Forget the gap in 2nd gear. If you are already used to riding with a stock setup, you can pretty much ride without 1st gear.
I ride a really tight MX track and I had a lot of trouble timing some back to back doubles with the stock setup because it didn't have much low end torque. Now, I have the power to gracefully come out of a turn and hit the first double, land, and then get on it to clear the next double. Before, I would land and not have enough power to clear the 2nd double. By the way, I could easily do these same jumps on a slightly modded 400ex with no problem. That was the frustrating part. Now, I am thinking I can come out of the corner and stay on the gas and triple and single them. I would have thought it impossible before. The other problem I had was climbing steep hills. 1st gear was too low and 2nd gear was too high. The engine didn't have the torque to allow you to gracefully go up in 2nd gear. You had to be in the powerband which made it very difficult to control while maneuvering around rocks and trees.
My setup to solve this is as follows:
1) White Brothers Powerflow air filter. Flows more than stock (and more than a stock engine can handle) and is still a two stage foam filter so I don't worry about dust sneaking into the engine. Buy several and keep them ready. I pop one out and another in every time I ride. Make sure you prepare them at least 1 day in advance so the oil has a chance to get really sticky.
2) I removed the entire snorkle and put a crankcase filter on the hose heading to the crankcase. I got one that is really designed for a car ($3). They make them to fit the stock crankcase hose. I treat this filter with some oil too just like an air filter.
3) I cut the front 2" off the airbox lid with a tablesaw. It makes a very clean cut. Install this 2" piece as usual so the air filter is locked into place except now you can see that the air filter is locked in. You can also drill holes in the lid. In any case, do more than just cutting the baffles from the snorkle; otherwise, it still restricts the air flow too much.
4) I bought the GYTR carbon fiber exhaust and installed it myself.
5) I also bought 2 new gaskets where the headpipe goes into the engine. Take the headpipe off and use a Dremel with a sanding disc to slightly grind the metal/weld material away from the inside of the headpipe where it attaches to the engine. Do NOT grind it away to the point of trying to smooth it to the point of creating a smooth transition. Grind it just enough to open up the restrictive area. If you spend more than a minute on each tube then you are taking too much material off.
6) At this point, I took it to the Yamaha dealer. I took it to them so they had a part in modifying the bike. I have an extended warranty so I wanted them to be involved. They convinced me to go with the Dynojet kit. They were extremely happy with the support they get from Dynojet if anything doesn't work out right. It was an easy way to get various jets, the needles, and springs. Obviously, you could get factory jets cheaper. I just didn't want a big I told you so from them. I really like the mechanic who works on my bike too. He is about 28 but has been working for them since he was 14.
My carb setup is 148/150 mains (these are the largest two sizes that come in the Dynojet Stage 2 Raptor kit). Use the supplied needles and springs. 4th clip position. I personally talked to Dynojet to get some advice on the settings since I modified the lid beyond what they recommend in the instructions. The guy thought the 148/150 would be right; otherwise, he thought 146/148. The next bigger option would have been 150/155 since a 152 dynojet main doesn't exist. The 148/150 hit was dead on.
Checkout www.dynojet.com. You can find the exact install directions that come with the kit.
I am sure you will be satisfied if you go this route and your riding is mostly trails and mx tracks. I too was looking at all the options. I was looking for the most bang for the buck searching the forums for info, etc. I have to give all the credit to "Raptor720". He has given me much advice on this forum and another forum. He does a lot of testing on a dyno for his own purposes so I believe his results over those done by the magazines or manufacturers. He knew I was looking for low end torque and guided me on the best changes and those that would just be a waste of money. I was all set on a new airbox setup, full exhaust, etc. Instead, I followed his advice and reasoning and couldn't be happier. The only change I made in his plan was the Dynojet kit. I had to compromise some since I got the dealer involved. I will search through the other forum to find the recommended jets sizes when using factory mains which is what he recommended. I think it was 160/165. Now, you have to understand that this setup was designed for my riding style and conditions. I am sure he would have had other recommendations if I told him I only drag race in the desert.
Good Luck!
It is hard to say how much louder than stock (at least twice as loud). I can tell you it is not as loud as a Big Gun. I don't like loud bikes and I don't find this setup offensive. I have to ride through a couple of neighborhoods to get to the trails. I was concerned that it would be so loud that the neighbors would complain but I can take it easy and it isn't bad.
The difference in power is night and day. You can easily pull stock gearing with this setup. Forget the gap in 2nd gear. If you are already used to riding with a stock setup, you can pretty much ride without 1st gear.
I ride a really tight MX track and I had a lot of trouble timing some back to back doubles with the stock setup because it didn't have much low end torque. Now, I have the power to gracefully come out of a turn and hit the first double, land, and then get on it to clear the next double. Before, I would land and not have enough power to clear the 2nd double. By the way, I could easily do these same jumps on a slightly modded 400ex with no problem. That was the frustrating part. Now, I am thinking I can come out of the corner and stay on the gas and triple and single them. I would have thought it impossible before. The other problem I had was climbing steep hills. 1st gear was too low and 2nd gear was too high. The engine didn't have the torque to allow you to gracefully go up in 2nd gear. You had to be in the powerband which made it very difficult to control while maneuvering around rocks and trees.
My setup to solve this is as follows:
1) White Brothers Powerflow air filter. Flows more than stock (and more than a stock engine can handle) and is still a two stage foam filter so I don't worry about dust sneaking into the engine. Buy several and keep them ready. I pop one out and another in every time I ride. Make sure you prepare them at least 1 day in advance so the oil has a chance to get really sticky.
2) I removed the entire snorkle and put a crankcase filter on the hose heading to the crankcase. I got one that is really designed for a car ($3). They make them to fit the stock crankcase hose. I treat this filter with some oil too just like an air filter.
3) I cut the front 2" off the airbox lid with a tablesaw. It makes a very clean cut. Install this 2" piece as usual so the air filter is locked into place except now you can see that the air filter is locked in. You can also drill holes in the lid. In any case, do more than just cutting the baffles from the snorkle; otherwise, it still restricts the air flow too much.
4) I bought the GYTR carbon fiber exhaust and installed it myself.
5) I also bought 2 new gaskets where the headpipe goes into the engine. Take the headpipe off and use a Dremel with a sanding disc to slightly grind the metal/weld material away from the inside of the headpipe where it attaches to the engine. Do NOT grind it away to the point of trying to smooth it to the point of creating a smooth transition. Grind it just enough to open up the restrictive area. If you spend more than a minute on each tube then you are taking too much material off.
6) At this point, I took it to the Yamaha dealer. I took it to them so they had a part in modifying the bike. I have an extended warranty so I wanted them to be involved. They convinced me to go with the Dynojet kit. They were extremely happy with the support they get from Dynojet if anything doesn't work out right. It was an easy way to get various jets, the needles, and springs. Obviously, you could get factory jets cheaper. I just didn't want a big I told you so from them. I really like the mechanic who works on my bike too. He is about 28 but has been working for them since he was 14.
My carb setup is 148/150 mains (these are the largest two sizes that come in the Dynojet Stage 2 Raptor kit). Use the supplied needles and springs. 4th clip position. I personally talked to Dynojet to get some advice on the settings since I modified the lid beyond what they recommend in the instructions. The guy thought the 148/150 would be right; otherwise, he thought 146/148. The next bigger option would have been 150/155 since a 152 dynojet main doesn't exist. The 148/150 hit was dead on.
Checkout www.dynojet.com. You can find the exact install directions that come with the kit.
I am sure you will be satisfied if you go this route and your riding is mostly trails and mx tracks. I too was looking at all the options. I was looking for the most bang for the buck searching the forums for info, etc. I have to give all the credit to "Raptor720". He has given me much advice on this forum and another forum. He does a lot of testing on a dyno for his own purposes so I believe his results over those done by the magazines or manufacturers. He knew I was looking for low end torque and guided me on the best changes and those that would just be a waste of money. I was all set on a new airbox setup, full exhaust, etc. Instead, I followed his advice and reasoning and couldn't be happier. The only change I made in his plan was the Dynojet kit. I had to compromise some since I got the dealer involved. I will search through the other forum to find the recommended jets sizes when using factory mains which is what he recommended. I think it was 160/165. Now, you have to understand that this setup was designed for my riding style and conditions. I am sure he would have had other recommendations if I told him I only drag race in the desert.
Good Luck!
#13
09-17-2001, 04:59 PM
I am convinced none of this means a damn thing.
Chasman, Bluebyu and myself have been matching our raptors against each others as well as anyone that came along. We've swapped quads, diffrent terrain, the whole deal. The results are wins/loses 3ft or less.
The best yet was Blubyu ( stock raptor w/Big Gun slip-on ) vs. white Raptor w/ 12tooth jetted/ airbox mod, and the CT muffler& pipe. I happen to know this guy drags all the time. Well, blubyu won. over and over again.
So much for CT. and any other pipe. There may be gains...but i'm willing to bet weight alone could offset those gains.
When in doubt. Bore it out. Thats the only way i think we'll see anything significant enough to post about.
Chasman, Bluebyu and myself have been matching our raptors against each others as well as anyone that came along. We've swapped quads, diffrent terrain, the whole deal. The results are wins/loses 3ft or less.
The best yet was Blubyu ( stock raptor w/Big Gun slip-on ) vs. white Raptor w/ 12tooth jetted/ airbox mod, and the CT muffler& pipe. I happen to know this guy drags all the time. Well, blubyu won. over and over again.
So much for CT. and any other pipe. There may be gains...but i'm willing to bet weight alone could offset those gains.
When in doubt. Bore it out. Thats the only way i think we'll see anything significant enough to post about.
#14
09-17-2001, 09:37 PM
Raptor660RNH,
Can you clarify your message? Are you saying there isn't any difference between one modded Raptor setup and another or that there is no difference between a modded Raptor and a stock one with a slip-on with NO airbox and/or NO jetting changes?
I agree that there isn't a big difference between one setup and another. That is why I would go the least expensive route. No need to buy an aftermarket airbox, no need to buy an aftermarket headpipe, no need to buy a Dynojet kit (even though I did). Significant gains can be made from adding a GYTR tip, opening the airflow in the airbox, and rejetting with larger factory main jets.
You are somewhat correct in that a better operator can overcome a certain level of mechanical deficit. A true test is to do multiple timed runs with the same rider so that weight is not a differentiating factor. Heck, I can ride a stock 400ex to victory over my girlfriend riding on my modded Raptor. About the only thing this proves is that she can't handle the Raptor.
Hopefully, we can help other Raptor owners from heading down the wrong path needlessly...
Can you clarify your message? Are you saying there isn't any difference between one modded Raptor setup and another or that there is no difference between a modded Raptor and a stock one with a slip-on with NO airbox and/or NO jetting changes?
I agree that there isn't a big difference between one setup and another. That is why I would go the least expensive route. No need to buy an aftermarket airbox, no need to buy an aftermarket headpipe, no need to buy a Dynojet kit (even though I did). Significant gains can be made from adding a GYTR tip, opening the airflow in the airbox, and rejetting with larger factory main jets.
You are somewhat correct in that a better operator can overcome a certain level of mechanical deficit. A true test is to do multiple timed runs with the same rider so that weight is not a differentiating factor. Heck, I can ride a stock 400ex to victory over my girlfriend riding on my modded Raptor. About the only thing this proves is that she can't handle the Raptor.
Hopefully, we can help other Raptor owners from heading down the wrong path needlessly...
#15
09-18-2001, 01:40 AM
Meanone- Keep in mind your asking a bunch of ppl who have never tried other pipes. For the majority at least. I would ask ppl like raptor clubs like (RRNT) for instance that have at least all together I believe 15 and counting and like sneves said the most noticable difference came from BIG GUN full race pipe which I think sneves has just switched to and I use. I think a couple other ppl that have seen the difference and are changing. White bros, pro cicuit, Graydon Proline, Dg and a couple other top names were the ones we were all using and now after seeing that Big Gun is the best and by far the loudest alot of ppl are going with it. I believe last month or the month before Big Gun was rated the highest in gain in Dirt wheels magazine. I really depends on what you want and sound is a major factor in this purchase but dont cut yourself short because some guy who went out a bought something and says its the best. You should ask clubs they would know. I know the all of us in rrnt have raced each other and rode each other raptors to feel it and see for our selves.
I dont want to see someone else buy some piece of crap becuase someone said it was the best get them to tell you why and show proof. I can at least have a few ppl on this bb for other cities back me up on this one.
I dont want to see someone else buy some piece of crap becuase someone said it was the best get them to tell you why and show proof. I can at least have a few ppl on this bb for other cities back me up on this one.
#16
09-18-2001, 02:21 AM
As for me, I have the HMF full system with DynoJet kit, pro-flow filter and a three inch hole in my airbox lid, jetted to DynoJets' specs at 146/148 mains, 4th clip on needle and she runs great. Noticeable increase in low end and midrange.
I have a different perspective on pipes and mods. I like to do the maximum all at once... within reason and still trying to go one step at a time. I added a full system because I wanted the most power a pipe could give and just a slip-on seemed half-done to me. I do not regret it so far. Good power, louder but not too loud.
I still say we Raptor riders need to get together and test our set-ups against the others...thats the only way we will ever know!
I have a different perspective on pipes and mods. I like to do the maximum all at once... within reason and still trying to go one step at a time. I added a full system because I wanted the most power a pipe could give and just a slip-on seemed half-done to me. I do not regret it so far. Good power, louder but not too loud.
I still say we Raptor riders need to get together and test our set-ups against the others...thats the only way we will ever know!
#17
09-18-2001, 03:05 AM
#18
09-18-2001, 10:44 AM
First off, let me start by explaining the first sentence in my last post was aimed at the actual title (subject) of the post. not your (noturaptor)very informative/detailed post. In reviewing my post it occurred to me it could be misconstrude as such.
Now, to clarify...My opinion after drag racing and observing many drag races of Raptors with multiple setups. Wether using the Big Gun, FMF, CT, DMC, GYT-R, etc. Jetted, airbox modded or not. Their seems to be very little diffrence at all. We're talking about a couple of feet diffrence certainly not a quad length or more. The only time someone lost that bad, it was attributed to tires.
My point, don't expect a noticable diffrence in pipes.(it may sound faster and feel faster, but i think thats your mind telling your wallet you did the right thing) Spend your money on suspension and rubber. The Raptor is fine for power stock. Skid plates and grab-bars will extend the life of your new pleasure.
Trail/Track
If you can handle your Raptor or Hook up your raptor better. you will ride it harder and thereby go faster.
Drag
extend the swing arm, bore it out and get your pipe.
But, you won't listen. i did'nt. i ran right out, and the first thing i did was buy a FMF with powerbomb headers. Waste. i'd rather have my stock pipe and a rear Elka. But the pipes look awesome and sound great. so what, i'd rather my frame not be cracked.
if you like jumping,watch your welds by the pegs. Suspension. Suspension. Suspension.
Now, to clarify...My opinion after drag racing and observing many drag races of Raptors with multiple setups. Wether using the Big Gun, FMF, CT, DMC, GYT-R, etc. Jetted, airbox modded or not. Their seems to be very little diffrence at all. We're talking about a couple of feet diffrence certainly not a quad length or more. The only time someone lost that bad, it was attributed to tires.
My point, don't expect a noticable diffrence in pipes.(it may sound faster and feel faster, but i think thats your mind telling your wallet you did the right thing) Spend your money on suspension and rubber. The Raptor is fine for power stock. Skid plates and grab-bars will extend the life of your new pleasure.
Trail/Track
If you can handle your Raptor or Hook up your raptor better. you will ride it harder and thereby go faster.
Drag
extend the swing arm, bore it out and get your pipe.
But, you won't listen. i did'nt. i ran right out, and the first thing i did was buy a FMF with powerbomb headers. Waste. i'd rather have my stock pipe and a rear Elka. But the pipes look awesome and sound great. so what, i'd rather my frame not be cracked.
if you like jumping,watch your welds by the pegs. Suspension. Suspension. Suspension.
#19
09-18-2001, 12:36 PM
this is my set up, i just set my stock head pipe and heat shields out to JET HOT. that way the head pipe won't rust also will flow better and reduce heat. plus has a lifetime warranty. i aslo ordered a big gun quiet series. because the places i ride have a 94 db law. the stories that i have read say that the stock head pipe produces more torque, unless you do motor work (more cc).
01 BLU 660R
GYT-R FRONT BUMPER
GYT-R SIDE COVERS
GYT-R HOUR/TACK
GYT-R SHOCK COVERS
PRM ENGINE SKID/BAJA GRAB BAR
PRO-DESIGN KN FILTER SNORKLE MODS
150-155 MAINS-25 PILOTS
DURA BLUE ELIMINATOR
12 TOOTH
WILDSKINZ HEADLIGHT COVERS
UNI-CRANK FILTER/KN OIL FILTER
JET HOT STOCK BIG GUN SILENCER
01 BLU 660R
GYT-R FRONT BUMPER
GYT-R SIDE COVERS
GYT-R HOUR/TACK
GYT-R SHOCK COVERS
PRM ENGINE SKID/BAJA GRAB BAR
PRO-DESIGN KN FILTER SNORKLE MODS
150-155 MAINS-25 PILOTS
DURA BLUE ELIMINATOR
12 TOOTH
WILDSKINZ HEADLIGHT COVERS
UNI-CRANK FILTER/KN OIL FILTER
JET HOT STOCK BIG GUN SILENCER
#20
09-18-2001, 02:36 PM
<< The best yet was Blubyu ( stock raptor w/Big Gun slip-on ) vs. white Raptor w/ 12tooth jetted/ airbox mod, and the CT muffler& pipe. I happen to know this guy drags all the time. Well, blubyu won. over and over again. >>
I think the stock 13 tooth helped Blubyu to beat the lower geared 12 tooth.