Raptor Exhaust Shootout in dirt wheels
#1
12-31-2001, 03:01 PM
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#4
01-01-2002, 03:46 PM
#5
01-01-2002, 09:44 PM
Ah, the "fair" Dirt Wheels is at it again. Lets see, no author name for the article, all dyno runs done at CT by Alan, CT's pipe shows the highest gains. Is that glazed doughnut on his face or ??? I thought that a test should be independent and take every step to insure that the results are fair and accurate. I guess Dirt Wheels has alot to learn.
Anyway, here are some of my thoughts about the shoot out that you should consider before stepping in line to buy a particular pipe like a bunch of sheep going to slaughter:
1. The CT and Graydon pipes are identical but the power curve is substantially different eventhough CT and Graydon were the only pipes that were run with the air box lid completely removed. It also appears that CT was the only pipe tested that also used a free flowing K&N air filter. GEE, what would happen with the other pipes with no air box lid or a different air filter??? How many people actually run with no air box lid???
2. If DW posted the torque curves, you could use a calculator and determine if the dyno was spiked.
3. Why was the dyno's calibration checked after each run?? What changes in the 10 minutes between pipes? What were the baro readings??
4. How do they account for the spikes in the Trinity and Graydon pipe runs?? On a 4 stroke, I believe you only get those spikes is from wheel spin or a cold motor. Was Alan over tightening and under tightening some atv's against the dyno drum to "adjust" the hp ratings??
5. I believe that CT's dyno does not have the ability to check fuel/air so we don't know if the jetting was "good" for each pipe. Sure, they followed the specs from each company -- but it would have been nice to show if the jetting was accurate.
6. Dirt Wheels (or was it CT) failed to look at the Trinity full page ad in their own mag (page 59) where they would have learned that the head pipe is polished stainless steel NOT chrome. In fact, the Trinity pipe is the only all stainless steel pipe that is polished.
7. You can easily see that some of the pipes fell flat on top because of the air box configuration (lid on or snorkel mods only) those pipes would have done pretty good with no lid!
8. Get DW to also test the stock head pipe with a tip only and also test the full stock system with no baffle. I have seen 48 hp with the full stock system with no baffle.
Anyway, here are some of my thoughts about the shoot out that you should consider before stepping in line to buy a particular pipe like a bunch of sheep going to slaughter:
1. The CT and Graydon pipes are identical but the power curve is substantially different eventhough CT and Graydon were the only pipes that were run with the air box lid completely removed. It also appears that CT was the only pipe tested that also used a free flowing K&N air filter. GEE, what would happen with the other pipes with no air box lid or a different air filter??? How many people actually run with no air box lid???
2. If DW posted the torque curves, you could use a calculator and determine if the dyno was spiked.
3. Why was the dyno's calibration checked after each run?? What changes in the 10 minutes between pipes? What were the baro readings??
4. How do they account for the spikes in the Trinity and Graydon pipe runs?? On a 4 stroke, I believe you only get those spikes is from wheel spin or a cold motor. Was Alan over tightening and under tightening some atv's against the dyno drum to "adjust" the hp ratings??
5. I believe that CT's dyno does not have the ability to check fuel/air so we don't know if the jetting was "good" for each pipe. Sure, they followed the specs from each company -- but it would have been nice to show if the jetting was accurate.
6. Dirt Wheels (or was it CT) failed to look at the Trinity full page ad in their own mag (page 59) where they would have learned that the head pipe is polished stainless steel NOT chrome. In fact, the Trinity pipe is the only all stainless steel pipe that is polished.
7. You can easily see that some of the pipes fell flat on top because of the air box configuration (lid on or snorkel mods only) those pipes would have done pretty good with no lid!
8. Get DW to also test the stock head pipe with a tip only and also test the full stock system with no baffle. I have seen 48 hp with the full stock system with no baffle.
#6
01-01-2002, 10:18 PM
I too would have liked to see a more fair comparison. As in similar jetting and no airbox lid. Even on the stock pipe. I bet the raptor gains more from airbox mods and jetting than an aftermarket pipe. The one that catches my eye is the Alba pipe. It made good horsepower down low, and also up high, with virtually no airbox mods and small jetting. I would like to see it with an open airbox and bigger jetting.
#7
01-02-2002, 07:01 AM
Raptoraz, I spoke with Alba several times about the issue & they claim to have spent at least a week & $1000 plus trying to get more HP out of the Raptor by cutting holes/removing the airbox lid with no luck. They approve of cutting out the restricting pieces & using a K&N or foam filter & even removing the snorkel but anymore than that & they said it looses HP-too much air turbulence. Initially I called them asking for larger main jets since I wanted to remove my airbox lid, they totally advised me against it!
Raptor720, I called Allen from CT Racing about purchasing a full exhaust system from them. I told him the pipe shoot out wasn't fair since they didn't test the exhaust systems under the same conditions, for example, why not use the same bike with lid off & all & just swap the exhaust systems & see the results. He agreed but said they were instructed to test each system based on their instructions & its not his job to do the homework for other mfgs. I must say I agree with him. I'm sure some of the other systems would have gotten better results with the lid off etc but we may never know. I have to admit, I was committed to getting a full system until I read some of your posts-very intruiging! I have looked at other mfgs dyno results & most of them concur that the slip on gives a little better low end response but suffers in the mid/upper end. Perhaps you could answer me this, if I bought a full system, could I improve the low end by using a std bore high comp piston & make up for some of the low end loss of the full system??
Raptor720, I called Allen from CT Racing about purchasing a full exhaust system from them. I told him the pipe shoot out wasn't fair since they didn't test the exhaust systems under the same conditions, for example, why not use the same bike with lid off & all & just swap the exhaust systems & see the results. He agreed but said they were instructed to test each system based on their instructions & its not his job to do the homework for other mfgs. I must say I agree with him. I'm sure some of the other systems would have gotten better results with the lid off etc but we may never know. I have to admit, I was committed to getting a full system until I read some of your posts-very intruiging! I have looked at other mfgs dyno results & most of them concur that the slip on gives a little better low end response but suffers in the mid/upper end. Perhaps you could answer me this, if I bought a full system, could I improve the low end by using a std bore high comp piston & make up for some of the low end loss of the full system??
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#8
01-02-2002, 07:17 AM
Raptoraz, I spoke with Alba several times about the issue & they claim to have spent at least a week & $1000 plus trying to get more HP out of the Raptor by cutting holes/removing the airbox lid with no luck. They approve of cutting out the restricting pieces & using a K&N or foam filter & even removing the snorkel but anymore than that & they said it looses HP-too much air turbulence. Initially I called them asking for larger main jets since I wanted to remove my airbox lid, they totally advised me against it!
Raptor720, I called Allen from CT Racing about purchasing a full exhaust system from them. I told him the pipe shoot out wasn't fair since they didn't test the exhaust systems under the same conditions, for example, why not use the same bike with lid off & all & just swap the exhaust systems & see the results. He agreed but said they were instructed to test each system based on their instructions & its not his job to do the homework for other mfgs. I must say I agree with him. I'm sure some of the other systems would have gotten better results with the lid off etc but we may never know. I have to admit, I was committed to getting a full system until I read some of your posts-very intruiging! I have looked at other mfgs dyno results & most of them concur that the slip on gives a little better low end response but suffers in the mid/upper end. Perhaps you could answer me this, if I bought a full system, could I improve the low end by using a std bore high comp piston & make up for some of the low end loss of the full system??
Raptor720, I called Allen from CT Racing about purchasing a full exhaust system from them. I told him the pipe shoot out wasn't fair since they didn't test the exhaust systems under the same conditions, for example, why not use the same bike with lid off & all & just swap the exhaust systems & see the results. He agreed but said they were instructed to test each system based on their instructions & its not his job to do the homework for other mfgs. I must say I agree with him. I'm sure some of the other systems would have gotten better results with the lid off etc but we may never know. I have to admit, I was committed to getting a full system until I read some of your posts-very intruiging! I have looked at other mfgs dyno results & most of them concur that the slip on gives a little better low end response but suffers in the mid/upper end. Perhaps you could answer me this, if I bought a full system, could I improve the low end by using a std bore high comp piston & make up for some of the low end loss of the full system??
#9
01-02-2002, 09:02 AM
