Proposal for new Age Guidelines, ,revised, ,heights,,examples.....
Feb 16, 2002 | 01:29 AM
#1
Thread Starter
|
Pro Rider
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 2,203
Likes: 1
Consumer Product Safety Commission Age Guidelines.
Just over ten years ago the CPSC crippled the ATV industry in response to three wheeled ATV’s being marketed to children and the resulting injuries and litigations. Production of three wheelers ceased and the development of new models of 4-wheelers put on hold. The major manufacturers agreed to these controversial rulings as well as the CPSC Age Guidelines in an effort to diffuse the legal assault being mounted against them.
These CPSC Age guidelines, agreed to by the manufacturers trying to avoid litigation, enforced by the threat of termination of franchise to their dealers, has proven disastrous. The resulting quads, mismatched to their intended age groups, has children riding quads that are too small for them, with inadequate suspension and handling. Good handling and suspension are undeniably the very best safety features. Matching a child’s weight, size, and experience to the right machine are as important as engine size. What is being marketed are minis that are inappropriate for any size or age child, with inadequate suspension and dangerous handling.
In the 50cc to 70cc, 6 to 11 year old category, children are expected to ride narrow, tippy little machines, with little or no suspension, most with automatic transmissions that exceed safe speeds even with throttle limiters. Ill-suited for children of any age.
In the 70cc to 90cc, 12 to 15 year old category, teenagers are also expected to ride narrow, tippy little machines with inadequate suspension and handling. Because most 12 year olds weigh 100 lbs and more, and a 15 year old may easily weigh 150+ lbs, suspension is very stiff with inadequate travel. Most young teens simply do not fit these little minis. The quads that are appropriate are “off-limits”. The result is a teenager with a toy quad too small, or a larger quad, appropriate or not, obtained by going around the guidelines. Young riders over 5 ft. tall should not start off on minis.
In both categories the “Thrill” factor of a too small machine with not enough chassis and plenty of pep, assures the manufacturers an enthusiastic response from unknowing children at risk.
There are many good machines rated for 16 year olds that are completely appropriate for riders with some experience as young as 10 years of age. The Honda 250 EX is an excellent example, as is the Kasea Skyhawk 150.
The Yamaha Blaster is a fine machine for riders age 12 & up, as is the Polaris TrailBoss. Many other models from all the major manufacturers are appropriate for this age group. This is widely known, and explains the lack of compliance with the ridiculous CPSC’s age guidelines.
However, it is the machines aimed at the youth quad market that are the real problem. Despite costing nearly as much as the aforementioned 16 year old age category quads, they lack features and basic characteristics like stability and adequate suspension.
This is why the CPSC Age Guidelines are considered an oppressive joke. Stupid rules are routinely ignored and broken in all walks of life, legitimacy and respect for these offending agencies is lost. Born of misinformation, and creating an atmosphere that has lead the manufacturers to market mini-quads that are inappropriate for any age group, but within the CPSC guidelines, children are now riding quads that are too small and inadequate, thereby unnecessarily putting them at risk. The CPSC was acting in response to children riding 3-wheelers and 4-wheelers that were too big for them. Instead they have created a new problem, making children ride quads that are too small and dangerous for them. Death and injury statistics reflect the failure of the CPSC’s Age Guidelines.
New Guidelines need to be adopted that will encourage Manufacturers to make truly age-appropriate quads, with lower centers of gravity, less prone to roll over, with adequate suspension and good handling properties.
It may be necessary to rate these machines more specifically, with categories set up according to age, height, weight, and experience. Lumping these categories into ages 6, 12, and 16 has been a poorly thought out obstacle to just “get around” for anyone with any knowledge of these machines.
“Wider is Better”. Wider quads are more stabile and less prone to roll-over. Just like some SUV’s, these mini-quads have a dangerous combination of being too narrow, with too high a center of gravity, contributing to a high injury and roll-over rate. There is no reason why any quad sold in America should be less than 40” wide, yet some are under 30”. All these minis are about as narrow as they can be. Thrill Factor?
It’s hard to figure out why the designs of these minis are so vastly inferior to their 16 age group counterparts. Single A-arm front suspensions with 2”of travel predominate the class, while the 16 age group quads have full double A-arm suspension with at least 6” of travel.
Many of the minis are based on scooter powertrains, with their motors attached to the rear suspension, making true long travel off-road suspension difficult if not impossible. NO ATV sold in America should have less than 6” suspension travel.
The flood of cheap Taiwanese Minis, guilty of all of the above, are flooding the market under a wide variety of names including major ATV manufacturers like Polaris and Bombardier.
A True industry-wide, Age Guideline, should be of a sliding scale, to accommodate the experience, size, height and weight of the child, as well as age. Experience could account for as much as two years for example, as could the size and weight of the child. Maximum size should be determined by the weight of the machine in relation to the weight of the child. A good rule of thumb here is that the weight of the machine should absolutely not exceed the weight of the child by a factor of five. For example, a 50 lb rider should not be riding a machine which weighs more than 250 lbs. A 100 lb rider should not be riding a machine which weighs more than 500 lbs. A target weight of 4 lbs of machine per pound of rider or lighter is much more favorable. Lighter is better, and Lighter is safer. Size and fit of the machine to the child, as well as weight, have to play into the equation. A young overweight child should not be considered for a higher level quad merely on account of his weight. A smaller quad with higher rate springs might be a better choice. But riders much over 5’ tall should not be on minis.
“You must be This Tall to go on This Ride”
Class 6 mini
Let’s re-define this entry level class, suitable for 6 to 9 years of age, 45 to 75 lb rider. Under 5 ft. tall. (3’ 6” to 4’ 6” recommended)
40” minimum width,
40” minimum wheelbase
225 lb maximum dry weight
6” minimum suspension travel
50 cc two stroke, or 90 cc four stroke
Manual shift with auto clutch or automatic transmission with limiting
device to keep transmission from upshifting automatically until
the parent decides the child is ready
Tether kill switch or radio controlled kill switch
Throttle limiter
Class 8 mini
The current crop of age 12 minis should be redesigned, widened, given real suspension etc. and made suitable for ages 8 to 12, 60 to 100 lb rider, 4 to 5 feet tall.
40” minimum width,
40” minimum wheelbase
250 lbs maximum dry weight
6” minimum suspension travel
90 cc two stroke or 150cc four stroke
Auto clutch transmission or automatic transmission with limiter
Optional Radio Control Kill Switch
Throttle limiter
These first two classes represent the current mini classes, for riders under 5’ tall, and could be built on the same platforms with larger engines and tires on the category 8 models. There are no good current production examples in these categories.
Please refer to “Raptorette 80, the real Mini-Solution” at the end of this paper for details.
Many current 16 age category quads, like the aforementioned models, should be considered for riders as young as 10 and 12, depending on weight and displacement of the machine, size and experience of the rider. There are some good examples in the next two categories.
Light sport class,
Suitable for 10-12 year olds and up, 75+lb. rider, 4’ 6” minimum height. Experience and/or size would allow a 10 year old into this category. This class is currently well represented by the Honda 250 EX, Kasea Skyhawk 150, Yamaha Blaster, the Warrior just slips in on the heavy end, and would be a good choice for a talented 12 year old graduating from a class 8 mini, Blaster, 250 EX, or Light Utility for example.
Light sport class
42” minimum width
44” minimum wheelbase
400 lb maximum weight.
Under 200 cc two stroke, 350 cc four stroke
Light Utility Class, suitable for 10-12 year olds and up, 75+ lb rider, 4’ 6” minimum height. Experience and/or size would allow a 10 year old into this category. This category is well –represented by all the manufacturers with models such as the Recon and Beartracker at the small end, Wolverine and Rancher 4x4’s, Big Bear and Polaris Trail Boss, The Kodiak just qualifies at the heavy end, and would be a good choice for an over 5’, over 100 lb, over 12 year old into hunting or just getting outdoors and riding with friends and family, and doing a few chores.
42” minimum width
46” minimum wheelbase
550 lb. Maximum weight,
Under 300 cc two-stroke, 425 cc four stroke
All current 16 age category quads exceeding these specifications should be made available to 14 year olds with a minimum of two years riding experience and/or previous quad ownership.
The biggest threat of injury while riding a quad comes from inexperience. Beginners of any age face more risk than any specific age group. For this reason, proper instruction, training and supervision are the most important first steps in the quad experience.
Throttle limiters are a given, as they can help even adult beginners “get the hang of it”. But it is critical that the automatic transmissions on these minis be equipped with limiters also, so that parents can keep them in “low” till the child is ready to advance to the next level, avoiding dangerous speeds for beginners.
Radio controlled kill switches allow parents to ride with their children, keeping one element of control while supervising the learning process.
Helmets and proper safety apparel are obvious necessities that should never be left out of any ride.
In Conclusion, the CPSC age guidelines are not the law, just an industry guideline, and a very poor guideline at that. Guidelines are there to inform and guide the consumer into an informed decision. The current guidelines are misguided, leading the manufacturers into making the wrong product and the public into either making the wrong decision or having to go around the system to get their kids on the right and sometimes the wrong quads. The guidelines that I have just sketched out are an attempt at a system of guidelines that would improve the product and inform the consumer. A set of guidelines the consumer can use to make an informed decision. A set of guidelines the consumer can respect. How can the CPSC offer anything less?
Raptorette 80, the Real Mini-Solution.
The Formula for a safe, fun Mini seemed so obvious, but what was the best way to go about it? Though no production mini was even close, there were possibilities. Yamaha’s new Raptor 80 was chosen as the starting point for several reasons. On the plus side were the rear swingarm with driveshaft, the durable 80cc 4-stroke engine with auto-clutch and 3-speed foot-shift transmission. With the shift lever removed the Raptor 80 could be started by pulling in the brake and hitting the electric start button. Leaving the mini in first gear with the throttle limiter set gave the Raptor 80 a controlled learning “top speed” of 7 mph. First lessons involved avoiding obstacles and learning about “BRAKES”. This was gradually increased to 10 mph as “throttle control” became the focus along with staying on the trail, and controlling his own speed with throttle and brakes.
Though the powertrain and styling were superb, The Raptor 80 had the worst of the worst in the suspension department. This is where drastic measures were taken. Using parts off Yamaha’s own parts shelf, the front A-arms and hubs from a Yamaha Blaster were accommodated by completely scrapping the front suspension and re- building the front portion of the frame to accommodate the Blaster suspension. Likewise in the rear, the rear frame struts were replaced and the shock relocated from the vertical position over the rear axle to the tried and true location running from the middle of the swing arm to the main frame tube. The result was increased suspension travel from 2.2” to 7”, using the existing driveshaft swing arm without moving the battery or cutting any of the “plastic”.
Works shocks with springs and valving tuned to the weights of the machine and the rider finished off the suspension. The new Blaster A-arms and hubs increased width from 32” to 42”, along with the new Douglas aluminum wheels. Wheel spacers and wider Douglas wheels were used in the rear to bring that width out to 42” from 32” as well.
Modifications cost over $1,500 in materials and 45+ hours labor.
The result is a spectacular look at what minis are supposed to be. With great handling and suspension, (It jumps! It powerslides! It does whoops! A 4 year old can ride it!) The Raptorette 80 has been featured in the Spotlight on the Yamaha Bluetrax Forum, and will be in an upcoming feature article in 4-Wheel ATV Action Magazine.
Raptorette 80 Pictures of the construction process and the finished product are online at: http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4292182195
Thanks for listening,
Alex Ocheltree, P.O. Box 202, Gila, N.M. 88038, AlexRobin@starband.net
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif[/img]
Just over ten years ago the CPSC crippled the ATV industry in response to three wheeled ATV’s being marketed to children and the resulting injuries and litigations. Production of three wheelers ceased and the development of new models of 4-wheelers put on hold. The major manufacturers agreed to these controversial rulings as well as the CPSC Age Guidelines in an effort to diffuse the legal assault being mounted against them.
These CPSC Age guidelines, agreed to by the manufacturers trying to avoid litigation, enforced by the threat of termination of franchise to their dealers, has proven disastrous. The resulting quads, mismatched to their intended age groups, has children riding quads that are too small for them, with inadequate suspension and handling. Good handling and suspension are undeniably the very best safety features. Matching a child’s weight, size, and experience to the right machine are as important as engine size. What is being marketed are minis that are inappropriate for any size or age child, with inadequate suspension and dangerous handling.
In the 50cc to 70cc, 6 to 11 year old category, children are expected to ride narrow, tippy little machines, with little or no suspension, most with automatic transmissions that exceed safe speeds even with throttle limiters. Ill-suited for children of any age.
In the 70cc to 90cc, 12 to 15 year old category, teenagers are also expected to ride narrow, tippy little machines with inadequate suspension and handling. Because most 12 year olds weigh 100 lbs and more, and a 15 year old may easily weigh 150+ lbs, suspension is very stiff with inadequate travel. Most young teens simply do not fit these little minis. The quads that are appropriate are “off-limits”. The result is a teenager with a toy quad too small, or a larger quad, appropriate or not, obtained by going around the guidelines. Young riders over 5 ft. tall should not start off on minis.
In both categories the “Thrill” factor of a too small machine with not enough chassis and plenty of pep, assures the manufacturers an enthusiastic response from unknowing children at risk.
There are many good machines rated for 16 year olds that are completely appropriate for riders with some experience as young as 10 years of age. The Honda 250 EX is an excellent example, as is the Kasea Skyhawk 150.
The Yamaha Blaster is a fine machine for riders age 12 & up, as is the Polaris TrailBoss. Many other models from all the major manufacturers are appropriate for this age group. This is widely known, and explains the lack of compliance with the ridiculous CPSC’s age guidelines.
However, it is the machines aimed at the youth quad market that are the real problem. Despite costing nearly as much as the aforementioned 16 year old age category quads, they lack features and basic characteristics like stability and adequate suspension.
This is why the CPSC Age Guidelines are considered an oppressive joke. Stupid rules are routinely ignored and broken in all walks of life, legitimacy and respect for these offending agencies is lost. Born of misinformation, and creating an atmosphere that has lead the manufacturers to market mini-quads that are inappropriate for any age group, but within the CPSC guidelines, children are now riding quads that are too small and inadequate, thereby unnecessarily putting them at risk. The CPSC was acting in response to children riding 3-wheelers and 4-wheelers that were too big for them. Instead they have created a new problem, making children ride quads that are too small and dangerous for them. Death and injury statistics reflect the failure of the CPSC’s Age Guidelines.
New Guidelines need to be adopted that will encourage Manufacturers to make truly age-appropriate quads, with lower centers of gravity, less prone to roll over, with adequate suspension and good handling properties.
It may be necessary to rate these machines more specifically, with categories set up according to age, height, weight, and experience. Lumping these categories into ages 6, 12, and 16 has been a poorly thought out obstacle to just “get around” for anyone with any knowledge of these machines.
“Wider is Better”. Wider quads are more stabile and less prone to roll-over. Just like some SUV’s, these mini-quads have a dangerous combination of being too narrow, with too high a center of gravity, contributing to a high injury and roll-over rate. There is no reason why any quad sold in America should be less than 40” wide, yet some are under 30”. All these minis are about as narrow as they can be. Thrill Factor?
It’s hard to figure out why the designs of these minis are so vastly inferior to their 16 age group counterparts. Single A-arm front suspensions with 2”of travel predominate the class, while the 16 age group quads have full double A-arm suspension with at least 6” of travel.
Many of the minis are based on scooter powertrains, with their motors attached to the rear suspension, making true long travel off-road suspension difficult if not impossible. NO ATV sold in America should have less than 6” suspension travel.
The flood of cheap Taiwanese Minis, guilty of all of the above, are flooding the market under a wide variety of names including major ATV manufacturers like Polaris and Bombardier.
A True industry-wide, Age Guideline, should be of a sliding scale, to accommodate the experience, size, height and weight of the child, as well as age. Experience could account for as much as two years for example, as could the size and weight of the child. Maximum size should be determined by the weight of the machine in relation to the weight of the child. A good rule of thumb here is that the weight of the machine should absolutely not exceed the weight of the child by a factor of five. For example, a 50 lb rider should not be riding a machine which weighs more than 250 lbs. A 100 lb rider should not be riding a machine which weighs more than 500 lbs. A target weight of 4 lbs of machine per pound of rider or lighter is much more favorable. Lighter is better, and Lighter is safer. Size and fit of the machine to the child, as well as weight, have to play into the equation. A young overweight child should not be considered for a higher level quad merely on account of his weight. A smaller quad with higher rate springs might be a better choice. But riders much over 5’ tall should not be on minis.
“You must be This Tall to go on This Ride”
Class 6 mini
Let’s re-define this entry level class, suitable for 6 to 9 years of age, 45 to 75 lb rider. Under 5 ft. tall. (3’ 6” to 4’ 6” recommended)
40” minimum width,
40” minimum wheelbase
225 lb maximum dry weight
6” minimum suspension travel
50 cc two stroke, or 90 cc four stroke
Manual shift with auto clutch or automatic transmission with limiting
device to keep transmission from upshifting automatically until
the parent decides the child is ready
Tether kill switch or radio controlled kill switch
Throttle limiter
Class 8 mini
The current crop of age 12 minis should be redesigned, widened, given real suspension etc. and made suitable for ages 8 to 12, 60 to 100 lb rider, 4 to 5 feet tall.
40” minimum width,
40” minimum wheelbase
250 lbs maximum dry weight
6” minimum suspension travel
90 cc two stroke or 150cc four stroke
Auto clutch transmission or automatic transmission with limiter
Optional Radio Control Kill Switch
Throttle limiter
These first two classes represent the current mini classes, for riders under 5’ tall, and could be built on the same platforms with larger engines and tires on the category 8 models. There are no good current production examples in these categories.
Please refer to “Raptorette 80, the real Mini-Solution” at the end of this paper for details.
Many current 16 age category quads, like the aforementioned models, should be considered for riders as young as 10 and 12, depending on weight and displacement of the machine, size and experience of the rider. There are some good examples in the next two categories.
Light sport class,
Suitable for 10-12 year olds and up, 75+lb. rider, 4’ 6” minimum height. Experience and/or size would allow a 10 year old into this category. This class is currently well represented by the Honda 250 EX, Kasea Skyhawk 150, Yamaha Blaster, the Warrior just slips in on the heavy end, and would be a good choice for a talented 12 year old graduating from a class 8 mini, Blaster, 250 EX, or Light Utility for example.
Light sport class
42” minimum width
44” minimum wheelbase
400 lb maximum weight.
Under 200 cc two stroke, 350 cc four stroke
Light Utility Class, suitable for 10-12 year olds and up, 75+ lb rider, 4’ 6” minimum height. Experience and/or size would allow a 10 year old into this category. This category is well –represented by all the manufacturers with models such as the Recon and Beartracker at the small end, Wolverine and Rancher 4x4’s, Big Bear and Polaris Trail Boss, The Kodiak just qualifies at the heavy end, and would be a good choice for an over 5’, over 100 lb, over 12 year old into hunting or just getting outdoors and riding with friends and family, and doing a few chores.
42” minimum width
46” minimum wheelbase
550 lb. Maximum weight,
Under 300 cc two-stroke, 425 cc four stroke
All current 16 age category quads exceeding these specifications should be made available to 14 year olds with a minimum of two years riding experience and/or previous quad ownership.
The biggest threat of injury while riding a quad comes from inexperience. Beginners of any age face more risk than any specific age group. For this reason, proper instruction, training and supervision are the most important first steps in the quad experience.
Throttle limiters are a given, as they can help even adult beginners “get the hang of it”. But it is critical that the automatic transmissions on these minis be equipped with limiters also, so that parents can keep them in “low” till the child is ready to advance to the next level, avoiding dangerous speeds for beginners.
Radio controlled kill switches allow parents to ride with their children, keeping one element of control while supervising the learning process.
Helmets and proper safety apparel are obvious necessities that should never be left out of any ride.
In Conclusion, the CPSC age guidelines are not the law, just an industry guideline, and a very poor guideline at that. Guidelines are there to inform and guide the consumer into an informed decision. The current guidelines are misguided, leading the manufacturers into making the wrong product and the public into either making the wrong decision or having to go around the system to get their kids on the right and sometimes the wrong quads. The guidelines that I have just sketched out are an attempt at a system of guidelines that would improve the product and inform the consumer. A set of guidelines the consumer can use to make an informed decision. A set of guidelines the consumer can respect. How can the CPSC offer anything less?
Raptorette 80, the Real Mini-Solution.
The Formula for a safe, fun Mini seemed so obvious, but what was the best way to go about it? Though no production mini was even close, there were possibilities. Yamaha’s new Raptor 80 was chosen as the starting point for several reasons. On the plus side were the rear swingarm with driveshaft, the durable 80cc 4-stroke engine with auto-clutch and 3-speed foot-shift transmission. With the shift lever removed the Raptor 80 could be started by pulling in the brake and hitting the electric start button. Leaving the mini in first gear with the throttle limiter set gave the Raptor 80 a controlled learning “top speed” of 7 mph. First lessons involved avoiding obstacles and learning about “BRAKES”. This was gradually increased to 10 mph as “throttle control” became the focus along with staying on the trail, and controlling his own speed with throttle and brakes.
Though the powertrain and styling were superb, The Raptor 80 had the worst of the worst in the suspension department. This is where drastic measures were taken. Using parts off Yamaha’s own parts shelf, the front A-arms and hubs from a Yamaha Blaster were accommodated by completely scrapping the front suspension and re- building the front portion of the frame to accommodate the Blaster suspension. Likewise in the rear, the rear frame struts were replaced and the shock relocated from the vertical position over the rear axle to the tried and true location running from the middle of the swing arm to the main frame tube. The result was increased suspension travel from 2.2” to 7”, using the existing driveshaft swing arm without moving the battery or cutting any of the “plastic”.
Works shocks with springs and valving tuned to the weights of the machine and the rider finished off the suspension. The new Blaster A-arms and hubs increased width from 32” to 42”, along with the new Douglas aluminum wheels. Wheel spacers and wider Douglas wheels were used in the rear to bring that width out to 42” from 32” as well.
Modifications cost over $1,500 in materials and 45+ hours labor.
The result is a spectacular look at what minis are supposed to be. With great handling and suspension, (It jumps! It powerslides! It does whoops! A 4 year old can ride it!) The Raptorette 80 has been featured in the Spotlight on the Yamaha Bluetrax Forum, and will be in an upcoming feature article in 4-Wheel ATV Action Magazine.
Raptorette 80 Pictures of the construction process and the finished product are online at: http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4292182195
Thanks for listening,
Alex Ocheltree, P.O. Box 202, Gila, N.M. 88038, AlexRobin@starband.net
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif[/img]
Feb 17, 2002 | 12:10 AM
#3
Thread Starter
|
Pro Rider
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 2,203
Likes: 1
I added heights and examples, we have a measuring spot with every kid we've ever known and the dates with the measurements. That's 3'6" to 4'6" height for the class 6 mini, 4' to 5' for class 8, no minis for anyone over 5', light sport and light utility minimum height 4'6".
14 year olds with two years experience can ride any quad.
And my kids are still exceeding these generous guidelines by about a year and a half each. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif[/img]
14 year olds with two years experience can ride any quad.
And my kids are still exceeding these generous guidelines by about a year and a half each. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif[/img]
Feb 17, 2002 | 01:46 AM
#4
The Facility
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 4,062
Likes: 1
From: Mississippi
I agree with most of your complaints about the current recommendations
and your ideas make perfect sense, but it would never work at the dealer showroom with so many categories. Especially the experience part. The dealer would still be responsible for making the decision to sell.
A simple solution would be to make changes by going in steps. One propsed change that has floated around the industry for a few years have been to propose to the CPSC to change the recommendation that machines dispacing more than 90cc be ridden only by persons age 16 and older to 14.
While I don't have any strong feelings for or against regualtion...I feel that there does have to some when regarding children riding machines that weigh 400 or more pounds. Decision making and responsibility plays a more important role than the rider's size or riding experience. It's experience in life that counts.
I truly wish that your ideas could be made a reality. It WOULD help with both getting the appropiate sized rider on a machine that truly fits him or her AND help promote our sport in a manner in which others would recognize that we can make responsible guidlines for ourselves without government interference.
You really should send that letter to both the CPSC and the APS.[American Pediatrics Society]. The APS has really been doing some pushing in front of comittees this past year for FURTHER regualtion on youth ATVs. They are far more dangerous to our sport than the CPSC is. They are asking the government to intervene wih legislation that will FULLY BAN youth ATVs all together. While asking for this,..they are also asking for machines not be sold to persons under age 18!!!!
By the way, the Raptorette is very nice.
KNOWSALOT
and your ideas make perfect sense, but it would never work at the dealer showroom with so many categories. Especially the experience part. The dealer would still be responsible for making the decision to sell.
A simple solution would be to make changes by going in steps. One propsed change that has floated around the industry for a few years have been to propose to the CPSC to change the recommendation that machines dispacing more than 90cc be ridden only by persons age 16 and older to 14.
While I don't have any strong feelings for or against regualtion...I feel that there does have to some when regarding children riding machines that weigh 400 or more pounds. Decision making and responsibility plays a more important role than the rider's size or riding experience. It's experience in life that counts.
I truly wish that your ideas could be made a reality. It WOULD help with both getting the appropiate sized rider on a machine that truly fits him or her AND help promote our sport in a manner in which others would recognize that we can make responsible guidlines for ourselves without government interference.
You really should send that letter to both the CPSC and the APS.[American Pediatrics Society]. The APS has really been doing some pushing in front of comittees this past year for FURTHER regualtion on youth ATVs. They are far more dangerous to our sport than the CPSC is. They are asking the government to intervene wih legislation that will FULLY BAN youth ATVs all together. While asking for this,..they are also asking for machines not be sold to persons under age 18!!!!
By the way, the Raptorette is very nice.
KNOWSALOT
Feb 17, 2002 | 02:08 AM
#5
Range Rover
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
I agree with you fourlix. But my friend's 13 year old (my godson) rides his dad's Banshee with DG pipes and he rides that thing really good. He's been riding since he was 4. He started out with a Yamaha 80 when he was 4-7, then his dad bought him a Suzuki Quadrunner 160 he rode that from 7-11, then he got a Blaster and still has that. So I think if they can handle it and wear helmet and other protective gear then they can ride it.
Feb 17, 2002 | 06:44 AM
#6
Pro Rider
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 475
Likes: 0
I'm 6'4" 250 pounds at age 15 How do they expect me to ride a little "Mini" when I can't even fit on a blaster!?!?!?!?!?!? thesew laws were made along time ago and keep inmind the kids back then were alot smaller (No offense just true). Forlix very well put. let me know who to send it to and I will send them a copy if you would like.
Later
11 more days [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
Later
11 more days [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
Feb 17, 2002 | 11:44 AM
#7
Thread Starter
|
Pro Rider
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 2,203
Likes: 1
At 6'4", 250, even that Raptor is going to be a little small. Mudmunster sounds like a DS rider. Be sure to widen up that rear with a new Durablue or Better axle as soon as possible.
I was also given a 12 year old, 5'6", 168 lb. to fit into the system. Assuming he has some experience, as his dad
"ButtFungus" is here on the forum, I would put him at the top end of the Light Sport or Light Utility, on a 300EX, Warrior, or Kodiak. The 400EX and new Suzuki are just above the light sport class, and if this lad has sufficient experience, I would put him on one of those.
I am going to keep working on these guidelines, including condensing it down to a "short version", that doesn't involve all the background information and rhetoric, just a simple set of guidelines and recommendations. Remember this is only meant to be guidelines, not hard and fast rules. Experience can be assesed by a parent who is purchasing the quad. Dads buy quads, not kids. I don't know of any 12 year old who has walked into a dealership and plunked down 6 grand for a 400EX.
We are making up our own rules here, and we will bend them and/or break them if we want to. But we must dis-credit the CPSC guidelines in the process. Mudmunster is an extremely good example.
How about..
"A Dad's guide to buying your kid the right ATV."
This could be published independently, even on the web.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif[/img]
I was also given a 12 year old, 5'6", 168 lb. to fit into the system. Assuming he has some experience, as his dad
"ButtFungus" is here on the forum, I would put him at the top end of the Light Sport or Light Utility, on a 300EX, Warrior, or Kodiak. The 400EX and new Suzuki are just above the light sport class, and if this lad has sufficient experience, I would put him on one of those.
I am going to keep working on these guidelines, including condensing it down to a "short version", that doesn't involve all the background information and rhetoric, just a simple set of guidelines and recommendations. Remember this is only meant to be guidelines, not hard and fast rules. Experience can be assesed by a parent who is purchasing the quad. Dads buy quads, not kids. I don't know of any 12 year old who has walked into a dealership and plunked down 6 grand for a 400EX.
We are making up our own rules here, and we will bend them and/or break them if we want to. But we must dis-credit the CPSC guidelines in the process. Mudmunster is an extremely good example.
How about..
"A Dad's guide to buying your kid the right ATV."
This could be published independently, even on the web.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif[/img]
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Feb 17, 2002 | 11:54 AM
#8
Pro Rider
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 562
Likes: 0
Lets all remember that the CPSC Guidelines are just that, guidelines and not really a law.
While the dealer can lose his franchise, nothing can happen to a consumer.
You can always circumvent the guidelines by not stating who the quad is for. Don't ask don't tell type of thing.
Want to buy your 12 year old son a blaster? Have him sit on it at one dealer, play with it, etc. They without your son go buy it somewhere else, or look used.
I have never seen a state, federal or private atv park that actaully upheld the CPSC rules for riding.
Brad
While the dealer can lose his franchise, nothing can happen to a consumer.
You can always circumvent the guidelines by not stating who the quad is for. Don't ask don't tell type of thing.
Want to buy your 12 year old son a blaster? Have him sit on it at one dealer, play with it, etc. They without your son go buy it somewhere else, or look used.
I have never seen a state, federal or private atv park that actaully upheld the CPSC rules for riding.
Brad
Feb 17, 2002 | 12:00 PM
#9
Extreme Pro Rider
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,156
Likes: 0
Thats an excellent looking machine. Yamaha bit the dust when they took the Badger and put Raptor plastics on it. What you've done is what they should have done. My kids have a Badger, 11 & 12 year olds. They ride my friends Banshee all over the place as well as my Raptor and my brothers DS650 with out problem. The age guidelines need to be revised and manufacturers need to build there mini quads along the lines you've built this Raptor 80. Well done.
Feb 17, 2002 | 12:01 PM
#10
Thread Starter
|
Pro Rider
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 2,203
Likes: 1
The problem is the minis suck so bad, there really isn't anything decent out there for under 10 year olds. I am trying to get as much publicity for the Raptorette as possible, in an effort to "shame" the manufacturers into taking this approach. 4Wheel Action ATV magazine can't tell the real story, they have to say my 13 year old is the rider, not my 4 year old. If it weren't for the fact that my son is the smallest in his class,
he wouldn't fit. Over half the kids in his eighth grade class are way
too big for it. My 4 year old is big for his age, and wears the same size helmet as his big bro. Go figure.
......Guidelines only work when there is something to reccomend. My class 6 and class 8 minis don't exist, except for the Raptorette. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]
he wouldn't fit. Over half the kids in his eighth grade class are way
too big for it. My 4 year old is big for his age, and wears the same size helmet as his big bro. Go figure.
......Guidelines only work when there is something to reccomend. My class 6 and class 8 minis don't exist, except for the Raptorette. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]