Hi, just thought Iīd share my two cents on how I FINALLY solved my shifting problem on both my Foreman 450ES. (they are '00) This is long, but if you like to fix your own things, or just don’t have the $ to go to the dealer, you might find it useful.

First, the symptoms:
Everything else ran normally.
Started up OK, could shift gears OK, but suddenly, the system would freeze up on me.
I had to turn key off and back on till next freeze up.
When the thing froze, the gear position indicator would go from 2, 3 or 4 to "--". If it was in any other gear, the display would remain, but likewise, shifting didnīt happen.
With some more fiddling around, I realized that if I kept LOW RPMīs, the problem didnīt occur. At a certain point in RPMīs, it would re-occur. (easiest way to see it, is if ATV is jacked up and you can spin wheels)
When the problem ocurred, the speed reading would go to zero.

Testing the components:
The parts that I found involving the shifting system were these:
SHIFT SWITCHES (up & down): Just take a tester and check for continuity when pressed. Make sure they arenīt getting stuck in (that can freeze it, but wouldnīt clear by On, Off), and are clean. Besides that, I hear, they are very reliable.
SHIFTING MOTOR: Does it rotate? You can hear it when shifting (even if many machines need to be rocked or in movement before the gear will engage). If it doesnīt, check/replace the brushes. (easier to disassemble than to put back together, mmm...those brushes!)
ANGLE SENSOR: Boy, I hear a lot of people blaming it on this one (or so their dealer tells them when they get it back). Anyway, the check is simple. It is only a variable resistor. The ends should measure about 5-6 Kohms permanent. The center lead against any side will vary from about 400 ohms to half that value. As one side increases, the other side (against the same center) should decrease. Do thuis check slowly, reading should be proportional. (my sensors had a slight deviation that when almost getting to ends, the ohm value would read 600...550...500...450...then jump to 550...but come back down to 400. This is OK (for me anyway). Important thing is they donīt make BIG jumps or stop reading at times (as what they call "noise").
While you are at it, with the shifting motor out, check gears are lubricated and in their position (there is a stamp mark on gear and shaft of angle sensor).
SHIFTING COMPUTER or ECU: Because I was restoring these ATVīs that had been junked and robbed parts from, I had to get a new one anyway cause it was missing. So I was quite certain that this wasnīt the problem. Also Iīve heard, these units are so reliable they guarantee, verbally at least, they donīt fail. So this option would be the last to come back to. However, do check cables that come in, they tend to crack.
GEAR INDICATOR SWITCH: Simplest thing is, if allowed to, do the gears show on the display before the freeze up? Only R, N, 1, and 5 have to show. The others are "electronically figured out".
SPEED SENSOR: By the time I got here, I thought this was the guy to blame, but I wasn't completly right. Had to figure a way to really test it.

+__________________________________________Black__ ______
I
+ (same pos as above)__100ohm___ +LED- _______Red or pink___

- ________100ohm ____________________________Green______


Test this way: (donīt use 12V straight or you will really have to change this part!) With voltage applied, turn the shaft slowly. You should get 4 blinks of the LED for every full turn. If it doesnīt blink, first thing to check is if you put the LED in right.(I often make that mistake myself...if it helps, the bigger metal part INSIDE the LED is the negative and the smaller is positive). Before i forget, this test is with the speed sensor removed and disconnected. Oh! and donīt think you can spare the LED or some kind of light electric load on the output, such as using ONLY the tester, cause youīll get "ghost" readings.

COMBINATION METER: For myself, none of the steps above was solving my problem. After staring at the ATV for ...hours I guess...then it hit me! (PS donīt undervalue the potential of staring....some people are actually thinking when they are at it)
From the meter, voltage feeds the speed sensor and takes its reading. You will have to tap on to the lines, but with the ATV turned ON, there must be at least some 5V present on the Black/blue line that feeds the sensor (WITH the sensor hooked up). If voltage is lower(as in 3 V or lower), the sensor will not work. (take voltage measurment line against negative of frame or battery).
Now, if you have problems with the sensor not being powered up (and STAYING that way...take your time with the measurment, leave it on for a while), it is one of two things. Connection problems....check that black/blue cable up into the meter, or problems in the meter itself.
In my case, it was the latest...ON BOTH ATVīs! You will have to dissasemble the unit (if you are willing to take the chance...your options are buying a new meter anyway!or get some help) There is a little component , on the left side, and next to it is a legend ZD. In my case, it was ZD4 (you can trace that line coming to it from the connector and through the printed circuit board) If on diode test, the thing reads continuity EVEN if you invert your probes....thank GOD for you have found the problem. Now let us fix it. At any electronic supply store (I guess in Radio Shacks in US also), go and get a 4.5 or 5.1 or even a 5.6 Volt Zener Diode (1/4 watt or even ― Watt OK). Back on the controller note that the component has a band painted on one side, tyhis denotes the cathode. With a soldering iron (pen type preferably), pull out the fries zener diode, and put in the new one, with the cathode on the same side. Its probably going to be bigger than the other component, but this is even better. If you came this far, Iīm sure you can figure out how to bend the leads of the ZD to fit in place.

Presto!, this should do the trick.
OK, if you think it is too complicated, try this: Take any battery (or group of them, as in flashlight batteries), get around 6V, and hook the + from these to that black/blue cable. Take the negative and hook it to the frame or negative post. And interrupt (cut) that cable that goes to the meter. Just wanted to save you on the batteries, those ZDīs are cheap.

Report
If you trace back and forth all those cables on your ATV, youīll find there is a blue and yellow line that comes from your ignition pulse generator, that obviously feeds your Ignition Control Module, BUT ALSO feeds the ECU (shifting unit control I call it). Just about everything can be OK; sensors, motors, connections, etc… However, if the ECU detects that the engine has gone up in RPMīs (because of mentioned signal), and there is no signal from the speed sensor (because, in my case, the power to it would get cut off after a little heat developed), the ECU will freeze the whole thing.
I donīt know if it was just casual, or not, but the way the thing is designed, all electronic components must be perfect to shift. (Why would the speed sensor, who has to give reference to the ECU, have to be fed by the meter? And why, can the ECU meter “allow” operation of the ECU at low RPMīs, even if IN gear, but not if these go up as in real driving? Itīs not really like any safety feature.
So…just for the books, if your speed sensor ever gave out on you, or the meter feeding it, you can drive back if you keep your RPMīs low, or perhaps you can just cut the wire that goes from the ICM to the ECU (I doubt it does anything but MAKE you have to fix the part). Just donīt cut the cable before it reaches the ICM or your engine wonīt run.
And yes, you could always hook up that foot shifter. Itīs OK to get back, just not to drive around.
After fixing everything, a friend of a friend loaned me a Honda Service Manual (why did they wait till I really didnīt need it anymore?….sound like a bank..theyīll lend you money once they see you really have that amount anyway), but point is, I went through it, but found nowhere indications stating clearly that if speed sensor and meter and ignition pulse were not “coordinated”, the machines would freeze. But when looking at the wiring diagram, you can deduct it (much faster than tracing cables back and forth)
And let me make it clear, I LOVE my 450 ES, and I donīt plan on changing them. Actually, all the time I spent on them, is cause I want them till death do us apart (hopefully not through them). So I intend to learn all their tricks and else, so I can keep the machines past the time parts are called “obsolete”…..even if YES….it takes time…and time.

Well, hope all this will help others like me, and if you learn AND TEST something, will also share that.

Now Iīm leaving for a ride with my wife, each with their own restored and fully functional 450ES……with shifting problem solved for less than a $1, out of which I have a $0.50 speed sensor checking tool.

There is my 2 cents worth….or 50 cents should I say?

 

I also wanted to thank HondaBuster for replying to my initial questions. When others care, you also feel more like caring.
Thanks Hondabuster

 

Spectra, where are you??? You getting this?

 

sepajudas, Hey...not a problem. I learned more from you, than you learned form me. You did a good job getting them running, and letting us know what you did. I copied this post for future reference, so far my es has been very troublefree.
Seeing how you got yours running, and now have time on your hands, got something for you to think about. Have you figured out how , to defeat the starter interlock, so it can be started in gear? Ive heard that by putting 12 volts on the nuetral light circuit ( with a toggle switch, while in gear) should do the trick. I havent tried it yet, but I would think the computer would get confused and shut off the es. It would "see' both a nuetral and a gear position...figure something is out of whack and - -. I think the 12 volts to the nuetral light would work on a s, but not an es. Im just thinking ahead to the time when Im gonna have problems with the es, and itd be nice to be able to shut down and restart , without resorting to the lame handle.
No hurry...when you have time, think about it.
Hows the trail riding there? Are the laws and restrictions as tough as here in the states? Or are you pretty much free to ride where you want? What are the brands ( honda, yamaha, polaris) you normally see out riding?

 

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...................Except that I like foot shifts.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

Well, letīs see...
I donīt know your laws up in the States, but here in Costa Rica you canīt just ride where you please.
ATVīs can get licence plates, and be allowed on the roads (you will have to pay your yearly tag (about $120), and get a yearly checkout for lights, brakes, suspension, etc..., and they must have brake & steering lights, plus speedometer and horn. (just the "technical inspection" is about $20 every year).
Now, ATVīs earlier than 2000, can actually get a permit for seating 2 pax! After '01 they realized safety concerns and only allow 1 per quad.
However, for an ATV to be "road usable", it must have payed import duty taxes that average about a 70% ! of the vehicles US blue-book value (or some sort of similar table).

Now for us, who can hardly pay the price of a quad and sure arenīt willing to pay almost another amount just for import duties, plus yearly permits; we are not supposed to ride on public roads. (note the word supposed....)
Now, the area where I live has unpaved roads (they conviniently end about ― mile before), so even if they are public roads, you can get by. Plus, who in a patrol is going to catch up with a big ATV on a rutty road?...Patrolmen know it, so unless you tee them off, or go on pavement, your OK.

And, if you still decide to take the chance...and get cought, youīll have to go to the city impound, prove you are Legal owner of the ATV, and pay a fine around $1000.

As for myself, I'm the second last house up the mountain. So nobody gets in my way, and I have about 15 miles of gravel-rutty roads to ride, and many times that of trails. Actually, everyother month, many, many ATV guys come around with their machines on trailers, drop them off almost in front of my place and this area hosts the competitions.

As for the terrain, itīs very hilly, sometimes clayish, and.....we are in the tropical rainforest, so you get plenty water over the soil....mud.
Hope that answers your question.

Jimmy

 

About defeating the Start interlock....

The one thing I did do when they loaned me that service manual, was to get a copy of the wiring diagram.
It wouldnīt be possible to defeat the circuit by just putting a simple toggle switch feeding the Neutral circuit. It takes a little more.
So, youīd have to cut the gear position wires where they come into the ECU, but after they dropped of in the meter.
Just cut the wires close to the connector for the ECU, they would have to be the following:
Green Wire (this gives R reference)
Light green w/Red stripe (this gives N reference)
White w/green stripe (this gives 1 reference)
Light blue w/white stripe (this gives 5 reference)

Remember from my previous post that the computers "figure out" the gears inbetween.
OK, youīll have to use a four pole, double throw switch (at an electronic store see 4PDT).

Connect all four lines to the middle leads and come out on one side back to the ECU (use same side on all)
The lead on the other side of the N line (the Lg/R stripe) goes to a ground terminal (anywhere on the frame)

What will happen is even if you switch, the display meter wonīt loose the reference, so youīll be able to start in gear. Once started, throw back the switch, and you should be able to keep on going fine, with the correct gear displayed.

Now, if what you want is only tob be able to start in gear, and donīt care about gear display nor about speed reading, just interrupt
the R, 1 & 5 cables, and use the SPDT switch for the N position as mentioned.

Hope you never have to use this, but if you do, wish this helps and saves you time (and prevents hurting ECU & meter).

 

Wow, I didnt expect an answer so soon. I wish I could get this kind of response from the dealer, Thanks for the information.

 

reconranger, thanks for thinking of me but i don't have any use for it.

thanks anyway

Specta

 

I couldn't resist!