Congress Closing Motorcycle/ATV Access
#1
04-06-2009, 05:47 PM
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Resident Killer!
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men". Willy Wonka: 1971
Cigars! Earth ne'eer did breed such a jovial weed.
A Tiger Doesn't Lose Sleep Over Opinions of Sheep
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Congress Closing Motorcycle/ATV Access
Congress -- you remember those dunderheads that got elected in November -- passed a new bill to shut down more than 2 MILLION ACRES to off-road vehicles. Before anyone asks, "what does this have to do with Harley?" The ban also restricts access to "all motorized" vehicles, including access roads which are commonly used by touring riders to get to remote campsites.
Two links to related articles online:
http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/in...er-land-battle
http://www.roadrunner.travel/news-776.php
The American Motorcyclist Association (AMA) said that the ban restricts or completely bans motorized vehicles of any kind, including motorcycles. Under the bill, areas where motorized vehicles won't be allowed include parts of the Monogahela National Forest in West Virginia; Jefferson National Forest in Virginia; Mount Hood, Badlands, Spring Basin and Copper Salmon areas in Oregon; Sabinoso in New Mexico; Riverside County in California; and Washington County in Utah.
For those of you planning trips to Zion and southern Utah take note because this new law may negatively affect your chance to visit some of these areas. In Washington County, with Zion HD and the primary entrance to the Zion NP areas, the restriction is expected to impact areas along the Escalante Staircase and many other recreation areas surrounding the National Park.
The bill initially was defeated in the Senate, but it was revised by changing the name to the Revolutionary War and War of 1812 Battlefield Acquisition Grant Program. Don't let this bill fool you, the bill restricts more land in the western US (places that do NOT have Revolutionary War or War of 1812 Battlefields) than in the sites in the east. It is outright fraud to call the bill this, but it made it easier to pass.
At least two Congress members attempted to attach new legislation to restrict motorcycle exhaust and "footprint" impact on areas deemed as "necessary" or "of interest" to the continuing government effort. There are no details on what the interest or continuing government effort is; however, it is clear from the language of the proposed amendments that this was a concerted effort to create legislation to thwart motorcycle usage on and off the road.
Please be forewarned that a new bill is being introduced to further restrict motorcycle usage in all of the national parks. The bill, sponsored by Congress members from California and Massachusetts, will attack the impact of motorcycle "noise and pollution" contributions in the national parks.
Two links to related articles online:
http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/in...er-land-battle
http://www.roadrunner.travel/news-776.php
The American Motorcyclist Association (AMA) said that the ban restricts or completely bans motorized vehicles of any kind, including motorcycles. Under the bill, areas where motorized vehicles won't be allowed include parts of the Monogahela National Forest in West Virginia; Jefferson National Forest in Virginia; Mount Hood, Badlands, Spring Basin and Copper Salmon areas in Oregon; Sabinoso in New Mexico; Riverside County in California; and Washington County in Utah.
For those of you planning trips to Zion and southern Utah take note because this new law may negatively affect your chance to visit some of these areas. In Washington County, with Zion HD and the primary entrance to the Zion NP areas, the restriction is expected to impact areas along the Escalante Staircase and many other recreation areas surrounding the National Park.
The bill initially was defeated in the Senate, but it was revised by changing the name to the Revolutionary War and War of 1812 Battlefield Acquisition Grant Program. Don't let this bill fool you, the bill restricts more land in the western US (places that do NOT have Revolutionary War or War of 1812 Battlefields) than in the sites in the east. It is outright fraud to call the bill this, but it made it easier to pass.
At least two Congress members attempted to attach new legislation to restrict motorcycle exhaust and "footprint" impact on areas deemed as "necessary" or "of interest" to the continuing government effort. There are no details on what the interest or continuing government effort is; however, it is clear from the language of the proposed amendments that this was a concerted effort to create legislation to thwart motorcycle usage on and off the road.
Please be forewarned that a new bill is being introduced to further restrict motorcycle usage in all of the national parks. The bill, sponsored by Congress members from California and Massachusetts, will attack the impact of motorcycle "noise and pollution" contributions in the national parks.
#2
04-06-2009, 08:33 PM
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What a shame, I've tried to warn people about this type of thing with the Dem. majority in congress, but they don't want to hear it or just won't hear it. they are too optimistic and want to believe that they made the right choice at the poll's. All of the promises that were made during the campaign were broken within the first two weeks of their taking office. I hate to say it but it's just begun. They will keep taking and taking. When will Americans wake up? 
#3
04-06-2009, 08:38 PM
Please be forewarned that a new bill is being introduced to further restrict motorcycle usage in all of the national parks. The bill, sponsored by Congress members from California and Massachusetts, will attack the impact of motorcycle "noise and pollution" contributions in the national parks.
I found your post was copied directly from a Harley Davidson forum. Does the writer of this information have any idea what they're talking about.....I've searched the Web and have found ZERO news to justify this information. The only place it's spoken of is on forums like this. If this was a fact, it would be all over the Internet in various forms and voiced loudly. Who in their right mind would ban motorcycles from our national park system. They are a huge source of revenue for the surrounding communities and the park itself, through admission fees. If somebody finds any solid news source on this matter please speak up and attach a link. Thanks.
Last edited by FunRide; 04-06-2009 at 08:54 PM.
#4
04-06-2009, 09:03 PM
Ranch: I have found nothing to back this claim up. This is craziness and highly doubtful. It's just the standard crap to rally the troops against "those dunderheads that got elected in November". Let's be real here and wait and see if any actual information surfaces first. -Nobody is going to ban motorcycles from our national parks!
#5
04-07-2009, 06:53 AM
Super Moderator
Well, golly JimBob!
Well, golly JimBob!
Funride, the ban or restrictions on motorized vehicles was part of the "omnibus" spending package that was signed about a couple weeks ago. I also can't find the information right now. It was part of the $465 billion dollar spending package. It included National Forest land also. That's all I can remember. If I find it I'll post it.
#6
04-07-2009, 07:11 AM
There is nothing backing it up according to Congress tracking websites so I'm not sure where its coming from.
The only thing I found was that a couple of roads that were supposed to be limited to parks officials are being abused and are now being closed to the public with blockades. They were not supposed to have public vehicles on them anyway but people on bikes were using them as short cuts.
The only thing I found was that a couple of roads that were supposed to be limited to parks officials are being abused and are now being closed to the public with blockades. They were not supposed to have public vehicles on them anyway but people on bikes were using them as short cuts.
#7
04-07-2009, 10:26 AM
Super Moderator
Well, golly JimBob!
Well, golly JimBob!
Okay, I found some information. This is the main page: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-146
The summary is here:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill...46&tab=summary
You'll see language like this: Requires considering the conversion of forest roads within Monongahela National Forest to nonmotorized uses to enhance recreational opportunities within the Forest.
There is also alot of language about closing leases on federal lands to mining and oil exploration. These are practices that have been taking place on federal lands since their creation with the exception of National Parks, to my knowledge.
I've read also that oil leases in much of Wyoming (federal property) are not being allowed anymore. They are pressing a heavy handed environmental mentality rather than the policy of federal lands being dual use. That is, both scenic and economic. For instance, logging has been legal in National Forests since their creation. This practice allows the country to continue to have a renewable resource as well as area set aside for natural habitat.
The trend now is to close these areas off by redesignation of roads that have, to this point, been legal for motorized travel. It started under the Clinton administration and George Bush didn't do much to reverse the trend. It just kind of stayed the same. It is beginning to happen again with a liberal controlled House, Senate, and Executive Branch.
The summary is here:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill...46&tab=summary
You'll see language like this: Requires considering the conversion of forest roads within Monongahela National Forest to nonmotorized uses to enhance recreational opportunities within the Forest.
There is also alot of language about closing leases on federal lands to mining and oil exploration. These are practices that have been taking place on federal lands since their creation with the exception of National Parks, to my knowledge.
I've read also that oil leases in much of Wyoming (federal property) are not being allowed anymore. They are pressing a heavy handed environmental mentality rather than the policy of federal lands being dual use. That is, both scenic and economic. For instance, logging has been legal in National Forests since their creation. This practice allows the country to continue to have a renewable resource as well as area set aside for natural habitat.
The trend now is to close these areas off by redesignation of roads that have, to this point, been legal for motorized travel. It started under the Clinton administration and George Bush didn't do much to reverse the trend. It just kind of stayed the same. It is beginning to happen again with a liberal controlled House, Senate, and Executive Branch.
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#8
04-07-2009, 09:50 PM
Travel Management started with the Bush Administration
None of this has anything to do with National Parks as originally mentioned and was the source of this Obama based "outrage".
Physical changes to national forest land happens everyday....roads close, roads open. All changes require massive documentation and are reviewed by the public before the work begins. Retards on all kinds of motorized vehicles often destroy areas by running off the trails to create their own, and in the process can cause massive erosion....which then kills fish and pollutes rivers (breaking more laws)....Then they post their activities on Youtube and it's used against all of us that follow the rules and love riding offroad. Have you seen the videos of people running down the middle of a trout stream "cleaning" their machine? Then they go and creating massive mud pits which wash into the streams. How do you think that goes over with all the forest rangers (who spend thousand of hours, paid by you and me) trying to prevent erosion, fisherman and the non-motorized public? Not well, I can say.
It's more than just scenic and economic. National forests are multi-use and always will be. They're there for all kinds of uses, including recreation. They're not "yours" to do as you please as an off road enthusiast. They are national assets and not everybody likes ATVs and jeeps. Their initial purpose was to help insure clean water and reserve what little timber was left in the 1890s when clear-cutting was common practice. No forest has banned logging. No forest has banned ATVs. Logging is a core process in all national forests. Sometimes the numbers of board feet cut increases (you'll never hear about that in here) and sometimes they decrease, or close off whole sections.
"Travel Management" started with the Bush Administration, not the "Clinton administration" or the "liberal controlled House, Senate, and Executive Branch". So let me repeat that one more time...........Travel Management started with the Bush Administration! This is a project to shut down all unplanned "roads" within the national forests. Most of these "roads" are now massive gullies washed down to the bedrock. -Often it seems the offroad public is its own worst enemy. Although I will say that the bad apples put a huge drain on us. 80% of riders IMO are respectful, intelligent people looking to get outside and have fun.
-Wilderness: Areas that only allow foot traffic (roadless areas). Don't you want some areas for deer and wildlife to catch a break and have a place to reproduce and raise young in peace? What about some of the public that doesn't want ATVs running around their camp site. Wilderness only accounts for about 15 -18% of total acreage. If the fat, out of shape guy wants to hunt deer in that Wilderness area, then he needs to get off the ATV and go hunt for it....as in get off his a$$ and start walking. Bigger, healthier wildlife with some of the best natural fishing in America. I don't know about you, but fishing for stocked trout with worms off a trail is not my idea of an adventure. Wilderness is required in our national forests. Let the other 80% be managed and cut and ridden on. Have you ever been to a real Wilderness Area and hunted or fished? You likely would want more if you had. They are amazing places.
They are pressing a heavy handed environmental mentality rather than the policy of federal lands being dual use. That is, both scenic and economic. For instance, logging has been legal in National Forests since their creation. This practice allows the country to continue to have a renewable resource as well as area set aside for natural habitat.
The trend now is to close these areas off by redesignation of roads that have, to this point, been legal for motorized travel. It started under the Clinton administration and George Bush didn't do much to reverse the trend. It just kind of stayed the same. It is beginning to happen again with a liberal controlled House, Senate, and Executive Branch.
-Wilderness: Areas that only allow foot traffic (roadless areas). Don't you want some areas for deer and wildlife to catch a break and have a place to reproduce and raise young in peace? What about some of the public that doesn't want ATVs running around their camp site. Wilderness only accounts for about 15 -18% of total acreage. If the fat, out of shape guy wants to hunt deer in that Wilderness area, then he needs to get off the ATV and go hunt for it....as in get off his a$$ and start walking. Bigger, healthier wildlife with some of the best natural fishing in America. I don't know about you, but fishing for stocked trout with worms off a trail is not my idea of an adventure. Wilderness is required in our national forests. Let the other 80% be managed and cut and ridden on. Have you ever been to a real Wilderness Area and hunted or fished? You likely would want more if you had. They are amazing places.
Last edited by FunRide; 04-07-2009 at 10:32 PM. Reason: wording
#9
04-08-2009, 07:35 AM
Super Moderator
Well, golly JimBob!
Well, golly JimBob!
"
Roadless areas should remain roadless in my mind also. Again, I'm talking about the trend to take away motorized vehicle travel. Not adding trail where they were not before. I've canoed the Allagash River in Maine (Wilderness area) and can say I enjoyed the brook trout I caught for breakfast. I love wilderness areas. I've hunted Wildlife Management Areas also (bought with fees from hunting/fishing licenses. I love walking but again, not everyone can hike the vast distances of some of these areas. I used to be able to but cannot anymore. Because of injuries, I'd need a Medflight out of these areas if I tried to go into them on foot. All the more power to people who can. Another thing that's funny is that often wildlife thrives in open areas more than wooded. The whitetail deer population is higher than ever in recorded history in the Northeast. We have more open area (with the exception of VT) and the deer have more grazing opportunities. Forest left on its own does not always benefit all types of wildlife.
My main point in all of this is that trails and roads that were previously open to motorized traffic are being closed at an ever increasing rate. There is an agenda at work with the present body of lawmakers that will continue in this direction. I HOPE I'm wrong.
None of this has anything to do with National Parks as originally mentioned and was the source of this Obama based "outrage"."
I don't think I mentioned National Parks as being what I was talking about. If I did, it was not intended.
Physical changes to national forest land happens everyday....roads close, roads open. All changes require massive documentation and are reviewed by the public before the work begins. Retards on all kinds of motorized vehicles often destroy areas by running off the trails to create their own, and in the process can cause massive erosion....which then kills fish and pollutes rivers (breaking more laws)....Then they post their activities on Youtube and it's used against all of us that follow the rules and love riding offroad. Have you seen the videos of people running down the middle of a trout stream "cleaning" their machine? Then they go and creating massive mud pits which wash into the streams. How do you think that goes over with all the forest rangers (who spend thousand of hours, paid by you and me) trying to prevent erosion, fisherman and the non-motorized public? Not well, I can say.
I agree with you that we can be our own worst enemies as a group. There are bad apples in every batch from left to right politically speaking. But the trend is not so much towards opening trails as it is to closing them now. It's different here in New England where almost all trail systems are on private property. But, IMO, we should let all the public enjoy public lands not just some. I injured my back and as a result can only walk short distances. I'd like to be able to go to some of the Western trails if I get a chance. I hope they stay open.
It's more than just scenic and economic. National forests are multi-use and always will be. They're there for all kinds of uses, including recreation. They're not "yours" to do as you please as an off road enthusiast. They are national assets and not everybody likes ATVs and jeeps. Their initial purpose was to help insure clean water and reserve what little timber was left in the 1890s when clear-cutting was common practice. No forest has banned logging. No forest has banned ATVs. Logging is a core process in all national forests. Sometimes the numbers of board feet cut increases (you'll never hear about that in here) and sometimes they decrease, or close off whole sections.
I agree that the public lands are not ours to do with, "as we please". I'm talking about current use being changed to discontinue motorized travel. I understand about the logging. I'm more concerned with motorized travel.
"Travel Management" started with the Bush Administration, not the "Clinton administration" or the "liberal controlled House, Senate, and Executive Branch". So let me repeat that one more time...........Travel Management started with the Bush Administration! This is a project to shut down all unplanned "roads" within the national forests. Most of these "roads" are now massive gullies washed down to the bedrock. -Often it seems the offroad public is its own worst enemy. Although I will say that the bad apples put a huge drain on us. 80% of riders IMO are respectful, intelligent people looking to get outside and have fun.
Again, I did not use Travel Management to my knowledge. I only speak from what I read about in ATV Illustrated and other mags. I like ATV Illustrated because the editor is a former National Forest Service officer that has seen the trend away from motorized travel to bikes, foot, and horseback. Not everyone can do these activities. It's a main reason I ride a Polaris. It has a very smooth ride that doesn't aggrevate my back.
-Wilderness: Areas that only allow foot traffic (roadless areas). Don't you want some areas for deer and wildlife to catch a break and have a place to reproduce and raise young in peace? What about some of the public that doesn't want ATVs running around their camp site. Wilderness only accounts for about 15 -18% of total acreage. If the fat, out of shape guy wants to hunt deer in that Wilderness area, then he needs to get off the ATV and go hunt for it....as in get off his a$$ and start walking. Bigger, healthier wildlife with some of the best natural fishing in America. I don't know about you, but fishing for stocked trout with worms off a trail is not my idea of an adventure. Wilderness is required in our national forests. Let the other 80% be managed and cut and ridden on. Have you ever been to a real Wilderness Area and hunted or fished? You likely would want more if you had. They are amazing places.
I don't think I mentioned National Parks as being what I was talking about. If I did, it was not intended.
Physical changes to national forest land happens everyday....roads close, roads open. All changes require massive documentation and are reviewed by the public before the work begins. Retards on all kinds of motorized vehicles often destroy areas by running off the trails to create their own, and in the process can cause massive erosion....which then kills fish and pollutes rivers (breaking more laws)....Then they post their activities on Youtube and it's used against all of us that follow the rules and love riding offroad. Have you seen the videos of people running down the middle of a trout stream "cleaning" their machine? Then they go and creating massive mud pits which wash into the streams. How do you think that goes over with all the forest rangers (who spend thousand of hours, paid by you and me) trying to prevent erosion, fisherman and the non-motorized public? Not well, I can say.
I agree with you that we can be our own worst enemies as a group. There are bad apples in every batch from left to right politically speaking. But the trend is not so much towards opening trails as it is to closing them now. It's different here in New England where almost all trail systems are on private property. But, IMO, we should let all the public enjoy public lands not just some. I injured my back and as a result can only walk short distances. I'd like to be able to go to some of the Western trails if I get a chance. I hope they stay open.
It's more than just scenic and economic. National forests are multi-use and always will be. They're there for all kinds of uses, including recreation. They're not "yours" to do as you please as an off road enthusiast. They are national assets and not everybody likes ATVs and jeeps. Their initial purpose was to help insure clean water and reserve what little timber was left in the 1890s when clear-cutting was common practice. No forest has banned logging. No forest has banned ATVs. Logging is a core process in all national forests. Sometimes the numbers of board feet cut increases (you'll never hear about that in here) and sometimes they decrease, or close off whole sections.
I agree that the public lands are not ours to do with, "as we please". I'm talking about current use being changed to discontinue motorized travel. I understand about the logging. I'm more concerned with motorized travel.
"Travel Management" started with the Bush Administration, not the "Clinton administration" or the "liberal controlled House, Senate, and Executive Branch". So let me repeat that one more time...........Travel Management started with the Bush Administration! This is a project to shut down all unplanned "roads" within the national forests. Most of these "roads" are now massive gullies washed down to the bedrock. -Often it seems the offroad public is its own worst enemy. Although I will say that the bad apples put a huge drain on us. 80% of riders IMO are respectful, intelligent people looking to get outside and have fun.
Again, I did not use Travel Management to my knowledge. I only speak from what I read about in ATV Illustrated and other mags. I like ATV Illustrated because the editor is a former National Forest Service officer that has seen the trend away from motorized travel to bikes, foot, and horseback. Not everyone can do these activities. It's a main reason I ride a Polaris. It has a very smooth ride that doesn't aggrevate my back.
-Wilderness: Areas that only allow foot traffic (roadless areas). Don't you want some areas for deer and wildlife to catch a break and have a place to reproduce and raise young in peace? What about some of the public that doesn't want ATVs running around their camp site. Wilderness only accounts for about 15 -18% of total acreage. If the fat, out of shape guy wants to hunt deer in that Wilderness area, then he needs to get off the ATV and go hunt for it....as in get off his a$$ and start walking. Bigger, healthier wildlife with some of the best natural fishing in America. I don't know about you, but fishing for stocked trout with worms off a trail is not my idea of an adventure. Wilderness is required in our national forests. Let the other 80% be managed and cut and ridden on. Have you ever been to a real Wilderness Area and hunted or fished? You likely would want more if you had. They are amazing places.
My main point in all of this is that trails and roads that were previously open to motorized traffic are being closed at an ever increasing rate. There is an agenda at work with the present body of lawmakers that will continue in this direction. I HOPE I'm wrong.