chinese quad, no spark
#11
12-28-2012, 09:44 PM
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What brand quad? What size Engine? Do you have a 4 pin, 5 pin, or 6 pin CDI? Is this a four stroke engine?
What are the wire colors that hook to your CDI?
It is unlikely that a fuse popping short will affect the CDI.
Your probably going to need a meter, so borrow one, or buy one if you don't have one. They're a powerful tool with a little practice, and they are really inexpensive these days. A medium good one will be approximately $20.00.
#12
12-28-2012, 09:55 PM
Let's back up a bit...
What brand quad? What size Engine? Do you have a 4 pin, 5 pin, or 6 pin CDI? Is this a four stroke engine?
What are the wire colors that hook to your CDI?
Where was this short? Between what and what? What was the value of the fuse that got popped? 7 amp, 10 amp, 30 amp? What size fuse did you put back in?
It is unlikely that a fuse popping short will affect the CDI.
Your probably going to need a meter, so borrow one, or buy one if you don't have one. They're a powerful tool with a little practice, and they are really inexpensive these days. A medium good one will be approximately $20.00.
What brand quad? What size Engine? Do you have a 4 pin, 5 pin, or 6 pin CDI? Is this a four stroke engine?
What are the wire colors that hook to your CDI?
Where was this short? Between what and what? What was the value of the fuse that got popped? 7 amp, 10 amp, 30 amp? What size fuse did you put back in?
It is unlikely that a fuse popping short will affect the CDI.
Your probably going to need a meter, so borrow one, or buy one if you don't have one. They're a powerful tool with a little practice, and they are really inexpensive these days. A medium good one will be approximately $20.00.
I bought the 4wheeler from a friend and they couldn't find a key, so I was wiring in a switch but of course couldn't find a wiring diagram. so I found the positive and negative wires but was still unsure what the green was for because it wasn't showing anything with a test light. I had it hooked up to a negative and still nothing so I hooked it to a positive and it blew the fuse, I believe it was like a 10 amp glass fuse. I replaced the a mini fuse holder and have a 15 amp in their now.
#13
12-28-2012, 09:57 PM
I've since replaced the ignition switch. Also found out that the carb was gummed up pretty bad, and since it wasn't much more to buy a carb, I just replaced it completely, but now that the new carb is in I have no spark. I checked before the fuse blew and had great spark, but I didn't recheck after the fuse blew.
#14
12-28-2012, 10:02 PM
#15
12-29-2012, 07:43 PM
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Blk/Red: AC Ignition Power from Stator
Wht/Blk: Kill Switch
Grn: Ground
Yellow: CDI Output to ignition coil
Blu/Wht: Timing/trigger signal from stator
Click or hover on the thumbnail to get a bigger picture.
There are four wires on the ignition switch, which feeds two completely separate switches ganged together on a common shaft. One switch takes fused battery power (usually a red wire) and switches it to everything that run on 12 volts (head lights, horn, brake lights, etc). The switched 12 volt side is usually a black wire.
The second switch is used to kill the engine when you switch the ignition switch to the "off" position. Remember that your ignition system runs off AC power generated by the stator. There is no 12 volt *anything* in your entire ignition system. To stop the engine a "kill switch" pin on the CDI must be grounded in order to kill spark. So the second switch consists of ground (green wire) and the kill switch (usually black/white).
------------
Do you have a remote control? If so try unplugging it to see that allows spark.
Else here is a generic procedure for testing 5 pin CDIs. As you can see you need a meter to do these:
Is this a picture of your CDI?
Assuming the answer is yes, the first thing to do is eliminate all kill switches and kill switch wiring:
Method 1) Unplug the CDI and remove the kill switch pin in the CDI connector on the wiring harness. The pin is held in with a spring tab on the pin itself. You'll have to probe into the connector and push this tab in order to extract the pin. Plug the CDI back in (kill switch wire dangling) and see if you have spark.
Method 2) Unplug the CDI. Turn on the ignition switch and set all kill switches to the run position. Use a meter to measure resistance in of the kill switch pin in the wiring harness connector to engine/frame ground. If the reistance is infinite on the 100K ohm scale then your kill switches/kill switch wiring are OK. If you measure zero ohms then you have a kill switch/wiring issue.
The other inputs your CDI needs to make spark are AC Ignition Power, and the Trigger signal. Do the following:
1) Unplug the CDI. In the wiring connector measure the resistance of the AC Ignition Power pin to the Ground pin. You should see 400 ohms or so. What do you measure?
2) Measure the resistance of the Timing/trigger pin to the ground pin. You should measure 150 ohms or so. What do you measure?
3) Leave the CDI unplugged. Set your meter to measure AC volts on the 100 volt scale. Measure the voltage on the AC Ignition Power pin to the ground pin while cranking the engine. You should see 40 to 80 volts AC while the engine is cranking. What do you measure?
4) Set your meter to measure AC volts on the lowest scale you have. Ideally this would be 2 volts but many meters don't go down this low. In that case use the lowest scale you have. Measure the voltage on the Timing Trigger pin to the Ground pin while cranking the engine. You should 0.2 t0 0.4 volts AC. What do you measure?
Now for measuring the output side of the CDI:
A) Leave the CDI unplugged. In the CDI wiring connector measure the resistance of the Ignition Coil pin to the ground pin. You should measure less than 1 ohm (but not zero ohms). What do you measure?
B) Plug the CDI back in. Set your meter to measure AC volts on the 20 volt scale. Set all kill switches to the run position. Crank the engine while measuring the voltage on the Igntition Coil pin to ground. Poke through the insulation of the wire if you can't probe the connector.
Caution: There should be moderately high voltage spikes on this wire. Make sure your fingers are not part of the circuitry. Don't touch the probe lead tips while doing this test.
What you should see is a lot of random numbers with lots of zero values as well. This is because the meter may catch all or part of the spark event voltage, with a lot of nothing in between. Describe what you see.
Note: Using a meter to measure this point produces highly variable results depending on the meter. What you really need is an oscilloscope, but most always a meter is all that is available. We have to do the best we can with what's available. Describe the meter results as accurately as you can - there is information there to chew on....
Assuming the answer is yes, the first thing to do is eliminate all kill switches and kill switch wiring:
Method 1) Unplug the CDI and remove the kill switch pin in the CDI connector on the wiring harness. The pin is held in with a spring tab on the pin itself. You'll have to probe into the connector and push this tab in order to extract the pin. Plug the CDI back in (kill switch wire dangling) and see if you have spark.
Method 2) Unplug the CDI. Turn on the ignition switch and set all kill switches to the run position. Use a meter to measure resistance in of the kill switch pin in the wiring harness connector to engine/frame ground. If the reistance is infinite on the 100K ohm scale then your kill switches/kill switch wiring are OK. If you measure zero ohms then you have a kill switch/wiring issue.
The other inputs your CDI needs to make spark are AC Ignition Power, and the Trigger signal. Do the following:
1) Unplug the CDI. In the wiring connector measure the resistance of the AC Ignition Power pin to the Ground pin. You should see 400 ohms or so. What do you measure?
2) Measure the resistance of the Timing/trigger pin to the ground pin. You should measure 150 ohms or so. What do you measure?
3) Leave the CDI unplugged. Set your meter to measure AC volts on the 100 volt scale. Measure the voltage on the AC Ignition Power pin to the ground pin while cranking the engine. You should see 40 to 80 volts AC while the engine is cranking. What do you measure?
4) Set your meter to measure AC volts on the lowest scale you have. Ideally this would be 2 volts but many meters don't go down this low. In that case use the lowest scale you have. Measure the voltage on the Timing Trigger pin to the Ground pin while cranking the engine. You should 0.2 t0 0.4 volts AC. What do you measure?
Now for measuring the output side of the CDI:
A) Leave the CDI unplugged. In the CDI wiring connector measure the resistance of the Ignition Coil pin to the ground pin. You should measure less than 1 ohm (but not zero ohms). What do you measure?
B) Plug the CDI back in. Set your meter to measure AC volts on the 20 volt scale. Set all kill switches to the run position. Crank the engine while measuring the voltage on the Igntition Coil pin to ground. Poke through the insulation of the wire if you can't probe the connector.
Caution: There should be moderately high voltage spikes on this wire. Make sure your fingers are not part of the circuitry. Don't touch the probe lead tips while doing this test.
What you should see is a lot of random numbers with lots of zero values as well. This is because the meter may catch all or part of the spark event voltage, with a lot of nothing in between. Describe what you see.
Note: Using a meter to measure this point produces highly variable results depending on the meter. What you really need is an oscilloscope, but most always a meter is all that is available. We have to do the best we can with what's available. Describe the meter results as accurately as you can - there is information there to chew on....
#16
12-29-2012, 07:48 PM
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I've since replaced the ignition switch. Also found out that the carb was gummed up pretty bad, and since it wasn't much more to buy a carb, I just replaced it completely, but now that the new carb is in I have no spark. I checked before the fuse blew and had great spark, but I didn't recheck after the fuse blew.
Follow the procedure in the above post, and we'll find out what is going on with your ignition system
.
#17
12-29-2012, 07:52 PM
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#18
12-29-2012, 08:30 PM
Thanks for all your help I'll measure what I get from the CDI unplugged when I get back from work. I have tried removing the kill switch from it already and nothing changed. I'll swap the fuse with a lower one. I might have an oscilloscope as I got all my dad's tools when he retired from being a mechanic. I'll just have to ask him.
#19
01-07-2013, 09:08 PM
I had already ordered a new CDI and when I was finally able to test the old one the new one was in. I plugged it in and had spark again so I never did test the old CDI. I appreciate all the help and if I end up testing the old one I will post the results.
Apparently when the green ground wire from the ignition was hit with some power it fried something in the CDI.
Apparently when the green ground wire from the ignition was hit with some power it fried something in the CDI.
#20
01-07-2013, 11:17 PM
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Hmmm. It doesn't make sense that shorting power to ground (blowing the fuse) could harm the CDI in any way.
In any case the quad is working, so we can be thankful of that. But another possibility is that something is still wrong (and perhaps intermittent), and may rear its head again down the road. If it does come back and we'll go to round two...
In the mean time you may want to plug your old CDI back in. If it works too then nothing has been permanently fixed....
In any case the quad is working, so we can be thankful of that. But another possibility is that something is still wrong (and perhaps intermittent), and may rear its head again down the road. If it does come back and we'll go to round two...
In the mean time you may want to plug your old CDI back in. If it works too then nothing has been permanently fixed....