250cc V-BIKE No spark
#1
04-07-2012, 01:18 PM
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250cc V-BIKE No spark
I bought a used 250cc V-Bike with a wiring harness that looked melted. (I believe it is a 2007 V4S, but I am not sure)
I used a wiring diagram and wired everything to what looks correct, but my spark plug is not getting any spark.
I put a brand new plug in and still nothing.
The problem lies elsewhere, but I dont know how to check further.
I will provide pictures of anything in question.
Please help me get this ATV started, before I lose my mind.
I used a wiring diagram and wired everything to what looks correct, but my spark plug is not getting any spark.
I put a brand new plug in and still nothing.
The problem lies elsewhere, but I dont know how to check further.
I will provide pictures of anything in question.
Please help me get this ATV started, before I lose my mind.
#3
04-07-2012, 09:11 PM
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I bought a used 250cc V-Bike with a wiring harness that looked melted. (I believe it is a 2007 V4S, but I am not sure)
I used a wiring diagram and wired everything to what looks correct, but my spark plug is not getting any spark.
I put a brand new plug in and still nothing.
The problem lies elsewhere, but I dont know how to check further.
I will provide pictures of anything in question.
Please help me get this ATV started, before I lose my mind.
I used a wiring diagram and wired everything to what looks correct, but my spark plug is not getting any spark.
I put a brand new plug in and still nothing.
The problem lies elsewhere, but I dont know how to check further.
I will provide pictures of anything in question.
Please help me get this ATV started, before I lose my mind.
1) Do you have a 6 pin CDI (two connectors, a two pin and a four pin)?
2) Do you know if your CDI is DC powered (from the 12 volt power bus) or AC powered from the stator?
3) Did you use a wiring diagram that was specific to VBike 250cc quads, or was it just a generic 250cc chinese wiring diagram?
This is a starting point. Since you've already done some rewiring, these answers will help me to figure out whether we can start in the middle, or if we need to start at the beginning
.
#4
04-07-2012, 09:27 PM
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But this post claims the "engine turns over" when jumping over to a car battery. Huh? Are we to presume it didn't "turn over" before? This makes no sense...
"Turning over" means different things to different people. To some it means the starter simply turns the engine. To others it means the starter turns and the engine fires (meaning you have spark). But either way I'm confused. Does your starter crank the engine or not off your quad battery? When you jumper the quad to you car is the engine firing (i.e. trying to start)?
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04-07-2012, 09:29 PM
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1. I have a 6 pin CDI, with a 4 pin connecter and a 2 pin connecter.
2. I do not know how to tell if it is DC or AC powered.
3. and the wiring diagram I used was for a v-bike v4s. I found it in a forum on this site.
Wiring Diagram PT. 1
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/p...agramPage1.jpg
Wiring Diagram PT. 2 http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/p...agramPage2.jpg
Let me know if you need more information
2. I do not know how to tell if it is DC or AC powered.
3. and the wiring diagram I used was for a v-bike v4s. I found it in a forum on this site.
Wiring Diagram PT. 1
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/p...agramPage1.jpg
Wiring Diagram PT. 2 http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/p...agramPage2.jpg
Let me know if you need more information
#6
04-07-2012, 09:41 PM
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Sorry about the confusion.
I only added that bit about the engine turning over because the atv does nothing when I turn the key and push the starter. The only way I can get the engine to turn over is to jump my car battery directly to the starter solenoid, and when i do this the starter motor cranks and I get good compression, but the spark plug still provides no spark.
I hope that clears things up a little bit.
I only added that bit about the engine turning over because the atv does nothing when I turn the key and push the starter. The only way I can get the engine to turn over is to jump my car battery directly to the starter solenoid, and when i do this the starter motor cranks and I get good compression, but the spark plug still provides no spark.
I hope that clears things up a little bit.
#7
04-07-2012, 09:44 PM
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Let's verify that it is DC powered first. Here is a generic procedure for determining that:
Let's go one step further and assume that the above procedure determines that you have a DC powered CDI. Then the next step is to troubleshoot the DC powered ignition system. Below is another generic procedure for doing this... But don't skip ahead. Make sure you really do have a DC powered ignition system first (per the prodedure above). Otherwise we could get wander off down a garden path...
The 2 plug 6 wire CDIs come in two different designs. One is powered off 12 volts DC, and the other is powered off a moderately high voltage AC which comes from the stator. Unfortunately there is no reliable way to tell the difference between the two by just looking at them. To be sure you need to use a meter to find out which you have:
1) Unplug the CDI, and turn on the ignition. Do not crank the starter motor. Use a meter to measure the *DC* voltage on the pin labeled "AC ignition power" in the wiring harness to both ground pins in the 4 pin CDI connector. If you measure 12 volts DC then you have a DC powered CDI.
2) If you don't measure 12 volts DC on the ignition power pin, then switch the meter over to measure AC volts on the 200 volt scale. While cranking the starter motor, measure the AC voltage on the "AC Ignition Power" pin to the the Ground pin. You should see 40 to 80 volts AC. If you measure AC voltage when the starter is turning then you have an AC powered CDI.
Using a meter is the only 100% reliable way to figure out if your CDI is AC or DC powered. But there are some clues you can use that are usually (but not always) correct:
A) DC CDIs tend to be a little larger than their AC powered counterpart. This is because the DC powered CDI needs a bunch more circuitry to convert the 12 volts DC to the moderately high voltage supply that all CDIs must have.
B) Most (but not all) DC powered quad ignition systems do not use the kill switch input pin. The CDI connector pin usually has no wire tied to it. AC powered quad ignition systems usually do use the kill switch input pin.
1) Unplug the CDI, and turn on the ignition. Do not crank the starter motor. Use a meter to measure the *DC* voltage on the pin labeled "AC ignition power" in the wiring harness to both ground pins in the 4 pin CDI connector. If you measure 12 volts DC then you have a DC powered CDI.
2) If you don't measure 12 volts DC on the ignition power pin, then switch the meter over to measure AC volts on the 200 volt scale. While cranking the starter motor, measure the AC voltage on the "AC Ignition Power" pin to the the Ground pin. You should see 40 to 80 volts AC. If you measure AC voltage when the starter is turning then you have an AC powered CDI.
Using a meter is the only 100% reliable way to figure out if your CDI is AC or DC powered. But there are some clues you can use that are usually (but not always) correct:
A) DC CDIs tend to be a little larger than their AC powered counterpart. This is because the DC powered CDI needs a bunch more circuitry to convert the 12 volts DC to the moderately high voltage supply that all CDIs must have.
B) Most (but not all) DC powered quad ignition systems do not use the kill switch input pin. The CDI connector pin usually has no wire tied to it. AC powered quad ignition systems usually do use the kill switch input pin.
To troubleshoot no spark problems on a 6 pin DC powered CDI it makes sense to start in the middle (the CDI), measure as much as we can and branch out from there. For the CDI to do its thing it needs power, a trigger pulse, and it must not be inhibited via the kill switch input pin.
1) Unplug the CDI. Turn the ignition switch on. Set all kill switches the the "run" position. In the wiring harness, look to see if you have a wire on the kill switch pin. If you do, measure the resistance of the kill switch pin to the ground pin on the 20K ohm scale. It should read infinite ohms (same as when the meter leads are hanging free and not touching anything). It should not read zero ohms (shorted).
2) Leave the CDI unplugged, and the ignition switch in the "on" position. Use a meter to measure the DC voltage on the pin labeled "AC ignition power" in the wiring harness to the ground wire on the 2K ohm scale. You should read battery voltage (12 volts). What do you measure?
3) Leave the CDI unplugged. Use a meter to measure the resistance of the "Ignition Trigger Pulse" pin in the wiring harness to the ground wire on the 2K ohm scale. You should read approximately 150 ohms. What do you measure?
4) Set your meter down to the lowest scale you have for measuring AC volts. 2 volts would be ideal, but some meters don't go that low. In that case use the lowest scale you have. While cranking the engine, measure the voltage on the Ignition Trigger Pulse pin in the wiring harness to the ground pin. You should measure 0.2 to 0.5 volts AC. What do you measure?
5) Now plug the CDI back in. Measure the AC voltage on the Ignition Coil pin to the ground pin using the 200 volt scale. If you have to, use a sewing pin to poke through the wire insulation and then put the meter probe on the sewing pin. But don't hold your fingers on the connection during the next test - there may be high voltage here when the engine is turning. With the ignition on and all kill switches set to the "run" position, crank the starter motor. You should see voltages bouncing around at random values and the meter captures all or part of a spark event. What do you see?
1) Unplug the CDI. Turn the ignition switch on. Set all kill switches the the "run" position. In the wiring harness, look to see if you have a wire on the kill switch pin. If you do, measure the resistance of the kill switch pin to the ground pin on the 20K ohm scale. It should read infinite ohms (same as when the meter leads are hanging free and not touching anything). It should not read zero ohms (shorted).
2) Leave the CDI unplugged, and the ignition switch in the "on" position. Use a meter to measure the DC voltage on the pin labeled "AC ignition power" in the wiring harness to the ground wire on the 2K ohm scale. You should read battery voltage (12 volts). What do you measure?
3) Leave the CDI unplugged. Use a meter to measure the resistance of the "Ignition Trigger Pulse" pin in the wiring harness to the ground wire on the 2K ohm scale. You should read approximately 150 ohms. What do you measure?
4) Set your meter down to the lowest scale you have for measuring AC volts. 2 volts would be ideal, but some meters don't go that low. In that case use the lowest scale you have. While cranking the engine, measure the voltage on the Ignition Trigger Pulse pin in the wiring harness to the ground pin. You should measure 0.2 to 0.5 volts AC. What do you measure?
5) Now plug the CDI back in. Measure the AC voltage on the Ignition Coil pin to the ground pin using the 200 volt scale. If you have to, use a sewing pin to poke through the wire insulation and then put the meter probe on the sewing pin. But don't hold your fingers on the connection during the next test - there may be high voltage here when the engine is turning. With the ignition on and all kill switches set to the "run" position, crank the starter motor. You should see voltages bouncing around at random values and the meter captures all or part of a spark event. What do you see?
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#10
04-08-2012, 10:21 PM
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You wrote:
and later wrote:
Many of those tests did not require that the ignition switch be turned on. Yet you got "no readings" for all of them. That is a completely meaningless statement. Of course you got readings (if you did the tests at all - which I have to question). What were those readings? What would a meter display look like that is outputting nothing 
? Did you forget to turn the meter on?
I've been around for a long time, and when I read things like "I got nothing" or "it all measured good" the big red "B.S." light comes on. Your statements were very close to that. The procedure asked for data. What did you measure? Let me decide if your readings are normal or not...
Now its time for me to be humble:
My DC CDI test procedure in the last post had an error in it. It asked you to measure the DC volts on the Ignition power pin on the 2K ohms resistance scale. This cannot be done of course. But you say you did it and it measured normal. Hmmm.
Anyway, my bad on the procedure. Here is a revised one:
I determined it was a DC powered CDI without the kill pin.
I followed through on all the test readings, but I received no readings on ANY of them. sorry to disappoint
I followed through on all the test readings, but I received no readings on ANY of them. sorry to disappoint
Disregard that last post, I found that I have a faulty key switch, so i bypassed it and did the tests again. They all had normal readings except for the last one which gave me no reading.
? Did you forget to turn the meter on?I've been around for a long time, and when I read things like "I got nothing" or "it all measured good" the big red "B.S." light comes on. Your statements were very close to that. The procedure asked for data. What did you measure? Let me decide if your readings are normal or not...
Now its time for me to be humble:
My DC CDI test procedure in the last post had an error in it. It asked you to measure the DC volts on the Ignition power pin on the 2K ohms resistance scale. This cannot be done of course. But you say you did it and it measured normal. Hmmm.
Anyway, my bad on the procedure. Here is a revised one:
To troubleshoot no spark problems on a 6 pin DC powered CDI it makes sense to start in the middle (the CDI), measure as much as we can and branch out from there. For the CDI to do its thing it needs power, a trigger pulse, and it must not be inhibited via the kill switch input pin.
1) Unplug the CDI. Turn the ignition switch on. Set all kill switches the the "run" position. In the wiring harness, look to see if you have a wire on the kill switch pin. If you do, measure the resistance of the kill switch pin to the ground pin on the 20K ohm scale. It should read infinite ohms (same as when the meter leads are hanging free and not touching anything). It should not read zero ohms (shorted).
2) Leave the CDI unplugged, and the ignition switch in the "on" position. Use a meter to measure the DC voltage on the pin labeled "AC ignition power" in the wiring harness to the ground wire on the 20 volt DC scale. You should read battery voltage (12 volts). What do you measure?
3) Leave the CDI unplugged. Use a meter to measure the resistance of the "Ignition Trigger Pulse" pin in the wiring harness to the ground wire on the 2K ohm scale. You should read approximately 150 ohms. What do you measure?
4) Set your meter down to the lowest scale you have for measuring AC volts. 2 volts would be ideal, but some meters don't go that low. In that case use the lowest scale you have. While cranking the engine, measure the voltage on the Ignition Trigger Pulse pin in the wiring harness to the ground pin. You should measure 0.2 to 0.5 volts AC. What do you measure?
5) Now plug the CDI back in. Measure the AC voltage on the Ignition Coil pin to the ground pin using the 200 volt scale. If you have to, use a sewing pin to poke through the wire insulation and then put the meter probe on the sewing pin. But don't hold your fingers on the connection during the next test - there may be high voltage here when the engine is turning. With the ignition on and all kill switches set to the "run" position, crank the starter motor. You should see voltages bouncing around at random values and the meter captures all or part of a spark event. What do you see?
1) Unplug the CDI. Turn the ignition switch on. Set all kill switches the the "run" position. In the wiring harness, look to see if you have a wire on the kill switch pin. If you do, measure the resistance of the kill switch pin to the ground pin on the 20K ohm scale. It should read infinite ohms (same as when the meter leads are hanging free and not touching anything). It should not read zero ohms (shorted).
2) Leave the CDI unplugged, and the ignition switch in the "on" position. Use a meter to measure the DC voltage on the pin labeled "AC ignition power" in the wiring harness to the ground wire on the 20 volt DC scale. You should read battery voltage (12 volts). What do you measure?
3) Leave the CDI unplugged. Use a meter to measure the resistance of the "Ignition Trigger Pulse" pin in the wiring harness to the ground wire on the 2K ohm scale. You should read approximately 150 ohms. What do you measure?
4) Set your meter down to the lowest scale you have for measuring AC volts. 2 volts would be ideal, but some meters don't go that low. In that case use the lowest scale you have. While cranking the engine, measure the voltage on the Ignition Trigger Pulse pin in the wiring harness to the ground pin. You should measure 0.2 to 0.5 volts AC. What do you measure?
5) Now plug the CDI back in. Measure the AC voltage on the Ignition Coil pin to the ground pin using the 200 volt scale. If you have to, use a sewing pin to poke through the wire insulation and then put the meter probe on the sewing pin. But don't hold your fingers on the connection during the next test - there may be high voltage here when the engine is turning. With the ignition on and all kill switches set to the "run" position, crank the starter motor. You should see voltages bouncing around at random values and the meter captures all or part of a spark event. What do you see?