alternate current or direct current?
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05-11-2012, 02:05 PM
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05-11-2012, 10:30 PM
#3
05-12-2012, 12:08 AM
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). Some of the formatting doesn't paste in properly....<LI id=vmessage2889 class=floatcontainer>
Yesterday 10:28 PM - permalink
LynnEdwards
And...
I need to know whether your CDI is DC powered or AC powere to completely answer your question about running the engine without a battery...<LI id=vmessage2888 class=floatcontainer>
Yesterday 10:26 PM - permalink
LynnEdwards
We need to find out if your CDI is DC powered or AC powered. But before that I need you to answer a question you ignored in my last post:
Do you have a wire on the kill switch pin at the CDI?
I have two procedures to troubleshoot 6 pin CDIs. One is for AC powered CDIs and one is for DC powered CDIs. But I can't post them here - they are too long. I'm limited to 1000 characters. Answer the above unanswered question, and then post your problem in the main chinese forum. l can answer there without the limitations of 1000 characters...<LI id=vmessage2887 class=floatcontainer>
Yesterday 09:13 AM - permalink
bubba143826
i shut it off by turning the screw on the throttle cable so low it kills yes it is a gy6 automatic cvt transmission w reverse 6 pin cdi (new) will it hurt anything to run it without a battery?<LI id=vmessage2885 class=floatcontainer>
05-08-2012 10:13 PM - permalink
LynnEdwards
I'm completely sure I understand what you are saying.... Are you saying that the quad starts up and idles but you can not shut it off by using the ignition switch or kill switches? How do you shut it off?
Is your engine a GY6 engine? Do you have a transmission and a clutch with multiple forward gears, or a fully automatic with just Forward, Neutral, and Reverse?
Is your CDI 6 pins? Is there a wire on the kill switch pin:
<LI id=vmessage2884 class=floatcontainer> 05-08-2012 12:01 PM - permalink
bubba143826
jaster 94 suggested i talked to you i have what i believe is a kazuma cougar 150cc it runs but none of the kill switches work like the key, the handlebar kill switch what would you suggest uummm its been sitting up a while before i got it but all it needed is to clean the carb and it runs the electrical works when it wants to i have pics in my garage how bad is it to run it without a batt? please help
The 2 plug 6 wire CDIs come in two different designs. One is powered off 12 volts DC, and the other is powered off a moderately high voltage AC which comes from the stator. Unfortunately there is no reliable way to tell the difference between the two by just looking at them. To be sure you need to use a meter to find out which you have:
1) Unplug the CDI, and turn on the ignition. Do not crank the starter motor. Use a meter to measure the *DC* voltage on the pin labeled "AC ignition power" in the wiring harness to both ground pins in the 4 pin CDI connector. If you measure 12 volts DC then you have a DC powered CDI.
2) If you don't measure 12 volts DC on the ignition power pin, then switch the meter over to measure AC volts on the 200 volt scale. While cranking the starter motor, measure the AC voltage on the "AC Ignition Power" pin to the the Ground pin. You should see 40 to 80 volts AC. If you measure AC voltage when the starter is turning then you have an AC powered CDI.
Using a meter is the only 100% reliable way to figure out if your CDI is AC or DC powered. But there are some clues you can use that are usually (but not always) correct:
A) DC CDIs tend to be a little larger than their AC powered counterpart. This is because the DC powered CDI needs a bunch more circuitry to convert the 12 volts DC to the moderately high voltage supply that all CDIs must have.
B) Most (but not all) DC powered quad ignition systems do not use the kill switch input pin. The CDI connector pin usually has no wire tied to it. AC powered quad ignition systems usually do use the kill switch input pin.
1) Unplug the CDI, and turn on the ignition. Do not crank the starter motor. Use a meter to measure the *DC* voltage on the pin labeled "AC ignition power" in the wiring harness to both ground pins in the 4 pin CDI connector. If you measure 12 volts DC then you have a DC powered CDI.
2) If you don't measure 12 volts DC on the ignition power pin, then switch the meter over to measure AC volts on the 200 volt scale. While cranking the starter motor, measure the AC voltage on the "AC Ignition Power" pin to the the Ground pin. You should see 40 to 80 volts AC. If you measure AC voltage when the starter is turning then you have an AC powered CDI.
Using a meter is the only 100% reliable way to figure out if your CDI is AC or DC powered. But there are some clues you can use that are usually (but not always) correct:
A) DC CDIs tend to be a little larger than their AC powered counterpart. This is because the DC powered CDI needs a bunch more circuitry to convert the 12 volts DC to the moderately high voltage supply that all CDIs must have.
B) Most (but not all) DC powered quad ignition systems do not use the kill switch input pin. The CDI connector pin usually has no wire tied to it. AC powered quad ignition systems usually do use the kill switch input pin.
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05-13-2012, 11:09 AM
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#5
05-14-2012, 10:40 AM
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You need a battery to crank the engine, plus if your quad ignition is DC powered you won't be able to measure 12 volts if there isn't a battery.
So use a pair of jumper cables and connect them to the battery cables in your quad. Take extra to get the polarity right, and make sure you have 10 amp fuse in line with the small red wire that feeds everything but the big heavy gauge solenoid/starter motor wires.
So use a pair of jumper cables and connect them to the battery cables in your quad. Take extra to get the polarity right, and make sure you have 10 amp fuse in line with the small red wire that feeds everything but the big heavy gauge solenoid/starter motor wires.
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05-14-2012, 11:11 AM
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the electircal is all messed up even if i have it hooked to a battery it wont start the only way i can start it is with the kick start i did the tests and no numbers came up on the meter for the dc test and for the ac test it only got to 3.5v but i had to use the kick start i used a jump starter that puts out 10 amps @12 v
#7
05-14-2012, 11:24 PM
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Lets try a different tack since you cannot crank the starter motor.
Look at your stator wires coming out of the engine side cover. Follow those wires and see where they hook into the wiring harness. How many wires are there? And what are the wire colors? I'm only interested in colors on the wiring harness side of any connector(s).
How many wires at your CDI connector, and what are the colors?
You say you hooked it to a "jump starter" that "puts out 10 amps at 12 volts". This makes no sense. 10 amps is peanuts when talking about jump starting something. You need a lot more current than that... Are you referring to a 10 amp battery charger? If so, this has all kinds of pitfalls when you hook it up in place of a battery. It doesn't work well, and may cause damage to the starter solenoid. Why not just jump the quad to your car? Then you have a "battery" driving the system and not some complicated unknown
.
But we can try the different path of looking at wire colors too.
Look at your stator wires coming out of the engine side cover. Follow those wires and see where they hook into the wiring harness. How many wires are there? And what are the wire colors? I'm only interested in colors on the wiring harness side of any connector(s).
How many wires at your CDI connector, and what are the colors?
You say you hooked it to a "jump starter" that "puts out 10 amps at 12 volts". This makes no sense. 10 amps is peanuts when talking about jump starting something. You need a lot more current than that... Are you referring to a 10 amp battery charger? If so, this has all kinds of pitfalls when you hook it up in place of a battery. It doesn't work well, and may cause damage to the starter solenoid. Why not just jump the quad to your car? Then you have a "battery" driving the system and not some complicated unknown
.But we can try the different path of looking at wire colors too.
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#8
05-16-2012, 08:54 AM
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stator wire colors are; green, white, yellow
cdi there are 6 wires on the four wire plug yellow w blk stripe, blue w white and 2 green on the 2 wire plug black w white, and red w black
btw i appreciate you taking your time to help me with this and i used a jump starter/ battery charger it has many different settings 4 amp 6 amp 10 amp 200 amp for engine start
cdi there are 6 wires on the four wire plug yellow w blk stripe, blue w white and 2 green on the 2 wire plug black w white, and red w black
btw i appreciate you taking your time to help me with this and i used a jump starter/ battery charger it has many different settings 4 amp 6 amp 10 amp 200 amp for engine start
#9
05-16-2012, 10:20 AM
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The problem with most chargers (unless they have ther own internal battery) is that they don't provide a steady continuous DC voltage. They take the 60 hertz mains power and rectify it which makes a voltage that unipolar but pulsing up and down at 120 hertz (twice the mains frequency). They will (on average) deliver the charging / boost current as advertised, but this scheme relies on the battery to fill in the gaps and maintain a steady DC voltage when the charger is inbetween output pulses. Without a battery the actual voltage on your 12 volt bus is bouncing back and forth between zero volts and some higher voltage (like 16 volts). Not only will this wreak havoc with a DC powered CDI system (if you have one), but the starter solenoid takes a hit too. As the charger voltage goes to zero, the solenoid actuating coil voltage also goes to zero, and the solenoid starts to open. The contacts arc a bit. Then the charger voltage comes back and the solenoid closes again. This arcing as the solenoid opens is normal and happens everytime you turn the starter motor on or off, but with the charger you're doing this 120 times per second. It can take the life out of a starter solenoid in short order.
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05-16-2012, 10:31 AM
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