i agree, when i bought my 500, instead of buying it at the local small dealer, i drove 50 extra miles each way to get it for the cheaper cost. I was actually looking to buy a 400, but ended up paying less for my 500 then i would have for a 400 at the local shop, and to top it all off the local shop didnt offer any type of financing, there way is to send you out to the bank to get your own loan, that was the big decision maker there. but anyway the 400 4x4 manual was like 5399 at the local dealer, and my 500 4x4 manual was 5099 at the other dealer

 

My dealer is very small, but loves A/C. Of course, we don't have Gander Mountain around here, either. He does, however, sell below manufacturer's suggested price, easily by 300 dollars, so I don't know if that dog will hunt. He's not a huge volume dealer, either.

He also sells Kawasaki, and has said that AC does every bit as good a job of taking care of problems. He's got nothing but praise for them, and he rides an AC himself.

As for me, I shopped for price and service. I was lucky and found both in the same place. Remember, however, many small "family owned" AC dealers have been blasted on this very forum for lousy service and customer care. Just because it is small and "family owned" doesn't mean they have a halo over their heads. Maybe part of the Gander Mountain deal is not only sales volume and visibility, but also an ability to provide more consistent customer service. I don't believe it is as simple an equation as just selling out loyal dealers. There's more to it than anyone here can possibly know.

One thing I know for sure. AC is growing. Their stock is well up for the year and, although not scientific, I saw more AC machines than I've ever seen in one place.....by far....on my December trip to Coal Creek. I used to be lucky to see one other AC. They were all over the place down there. 400's, 500's, and at least 4 other 650's, and even a couple of 300's. They must be doing something right. I hope they don't screw it up.

 

This is an interesting thread. Some time ago, Toro, Yardman, McCouglloh, etc. all used small repair shops to sell and repair all their equipment (saws, weed wackers, mowers, etc.) The idea was, these shops could service everything they sold and the company's name was safe with the dealers they chose to do the work. The equipment was never cheap but you knew you were getting a good piece of equipment when you bought and it was going to be servciable. Now you can walk into the local hardware store and buy the same name brand that only the repair service could sell in the past. Who cares about service! Take it back, you may get a new replacement. I'm not so forgiving as someone else is here. We're not the America, powerhouse anymore. The goods we sell today are far from what made America, a powerhouse. All those companies are now based in other countries. Only offices are in the States. Workers that build the equipment are in other countries, for less pay than you and I are used to. You may have relatives that don't have a job yet. Or maybe you have no idea what it's really like to be without in America. Companies that didn't leave America when the gettin' was good, have to suffer the consequence of cutting cost at every level. Examples of the alternative is Enron, Kmart and some of the textile industries. NAFTA, was a Clinton, baby that was deformed from start. No one in congress is ready to stop the bleeding. Even the now pres., George W. is in full agreement. This is the first time in history, America is up for sale. You and I get a break on cost. But how can it be a break if all of us are out of a job?
AC was a company that sold exclussively through repair shops. If they've changed the process, so be it. They deserve a chance to survive the on sloth of imports. They're workers deserve a chance to keep feeding their families.
I'm just a working stiff like most of you. I don't have the answer either. But somebody had better figure it out before it's too late....
Chuck

 

It has become an interesting thread. From Arctic Cat selling quads through Gander Mountain to world economics. I'm not an expert on either one.

I would like to address a couple of comments made.

1st I never said the USA was a world powerhouse in goods produced but since you mentioned it...WE ARE!! Look it up. We are still a leading exporter of manufactured goods.

I said we were the worldwide economic powerhouse. We are!! Show me another economy that is more powerful.

2nd- How does the bad management of Kmart and Enron play into this? Kmart has been in and out of financial trouble most of my 42 years. Enron's high level execs raping the companies profits and deceiving shareholders had nothing to do with labor. If you look it up, you will find Enron has been a worldwide company for several years so they did "get out while the gettins' good".

Using cheap labor for goods has been going on for years. The automakers had facilities in Mexico long before NAFTA. There have been plants in Canada even longer. I think the textile industry has been made more efficient by technology making it unecessary to employ the same number of people.

I don't have family members out of jobs, but I did have to lay off 1/2 my crew this past year. Might as well have been family.

I have done without more than you would ever believe so I won't try to explain. I did learn a few things from my dad through all of this. He taught me a work ethic and the fact that I am only entitled to what I work for.

I still beleive that the goods produced here are as good or better than they were in the past. That is one of the reasons I bought an Arctic Cat.


Sorry for the off topic. I hope AC made the right choice. There is another thread on here about Pro Bass Shops selling them too. I wonder if Cabela's picks up the line, will they still have the "no questions asked" return policy?

 

The United States has the highest standard of living in the world. Yes, manufacturing has taken a hit here, but more business, including manufacturers, is headquartered and managed here than anywhere else. The economy over the last two years grows at a snails pace and everyone calls it a recession. The fact is that if it was a recession, it was a very weak one at best. America still offers a better economic life for everyone from the highest skill level to the lowest. In the early part of the century, we had the industrial revolution. In the 80's and 90's, much manufacturing was displaced, but we had the technological revolution. Change happens. It isn't always bad. These big chains everyone worries about are going overseas and are already bringing billions back home. (ex. Wal Mart)

If I were a worker who lost his job assembling or making things, I'd have a pretty sore view of things. However, the big picture shows the US to be number one and it isn't changing. Some other countries, particularly in Asia, are drastically improving their economies, but overall, it is not at our expense, but to our benefit. As they get wealthier, they also provide a market for our products and services.

Btw, Japan is the country everyone once economically feared. They have been in a 20+ year recession. On top of that, they taught us great lessons about quality, efficiency, and business savvy. (The quality part, ironically, was learned by them from an American.)

Economics is a very complicated subject, but look at the score board. We're winning, and as Ronald Reagan once said, our best days still lie ahead.

How do you participate? Education. We have the best colleges and universities in the world. Use them. Learn. Prosper. (Didn't Spock say that?)

 

Interesting thread. Being in the financial industry I hear these arguments all the time and it is tough for everyone! However, the simple laws of supply and demand always hold true! A/C has been expanding their ATV numbers each year and will probably pass sled sales. Polaris is in the same boat, most likely. They, I am sure, have spent tons of money to "tool up" for this expansion(read capital intensive) and now need a market to supply new ATVs too to handle this additional supply and to turn their investment dollars thru the business cycle into profit.

Now for the tough part! Local small dealers usually do not have the capital or demand locally to absorb excess supply so the company is forced to look for new markets, preferably outside of their existing dealer network. Now Gander Mountain is picky where it puts its stores so they are going to be in more population dense areas whereas most dealers are located in smaller towns. Yes, I know there will be overlap of territory and that Gander will get a lower cost per unit because of volume but Arctic Cat will prosper in unit sales and awesome Marketing awareness. The good news is that A/C are American made with Suzuki engines and the jobs are here.

In reading the original thread I would say while a few dealers may be impacted by this the majority won't be. If I walked into a dealership in the middle of sled country and he had a bunch of ATVs sitting on the showroom I would seriously question his business plan as expensive ATVs sitting for 3-6 months cost that dealer bunches of money and may present cash flow problems for aquiring saleable inventory(sleds) in the middle of the winter. Since these dealers did not have ATVs I would say it is more because of the timing and the fact they have chosen not to compete with Gander Mountain.

Lastly, I find it intriguing that you sound pro American business owner but yet would consider buying a completely Japanese owned machine at the expense of Arctic Cat, a US Company????

 

According to an article in this weeks Star Tribune, for the first time ever, 2003 Artic sales have surpassed their snowmobile sales. It went on to show DNR reistrations for 2003 as 35,000 for ATV and 15,134 for snowmobiles. I am surprised a dealer would not stock ATVs based on these facts.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about America being up for sale. It's been up for sale before. Remember the 80's, when the Japanese were buying up everything in sight? Thought they'd just buy us out? Didn't work out, they ran into the one person they just couldn't overcome - the west cost real estate agent. Took their money, then trashed their economy when the California land value bubble burst back in the late 80's. Couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch of people.

Cat has definitely gone to some lengths to try to get market share. First they give dealerships to just about anyone, and now a deal with Gander Mountain. I hope both parties know what they are getting into. The big mega retailers don't provide much (if any) customer service after the sale. ATV's are not something an inexperienced person can just roll off the floor and head for the hills. Not if they want to stay alive, that is. Could end up giving both parties a black eye if they aren't careful.

To tell the truth, I haven't needed my local dealer for much of anything, and the one time I did use them for service, I came back and found my quad being used to haul motorcycle engines around. Can't say I was too impressed with that one...

 

I forgot to mention if A/C sells twice as many ATVs I would think the existing dealer network outside of Gander Mountain would see a sharp upswing in service, parts and Warranty work. I too have never had my TRV back to the dealer but I will buy air filters, oil and oil filters and other parts from him when I need to. I know in the auto industry that service/parts/Warranty work is a very profitable one so I would think it would be the same for the dealers. With my dealer selling an oil filter for $11.95 versus Fram for $4 hes gotta be doing OK!

 

You are right about the Japanese. They really took one on the chin with that.

I'd have to disgree with two points, however. Just like small businesses, some mega retailers provide excellent support and service while some are terrible. The best customer service I've ever experienced was with Bass Pro Shops. I had a problem with a Nitro Bass Boat just before the warranty ended. Two weeks, to be precise. It was a 5 year old boat with a 5 year hull warranty. They attempted to fix the problem twice and months later when it reappeared, they called me and told me I was getting a brand new boat and all I needed to do was select a color and decide when my first fishing trip of the year was going to be. They had the boat at my door 1 week before the date I told them I needed it. It was twice the boat that the original was. This was from a mega-boat retailer. They were #1 in sales at the time and still are today. They weren't local, either. I bought the boat in Sprinfield, MO, at their headquarters. All of my customer service was arranged by phone. One other little side note--that wasn't the first service issue they took care of. When the boat was brand new, I got it home to Indiana to discover that the battery was dead and would not hold a charge. I called them and they overnighted a new battery. They also failed to tune the motor correctly (outboards at that time did not come tuned from the factory. The dealers did it). I took it to a local outboard dealer who set it up correctly. I called Bass Pro and told them. They asked me what it cost and then promptly sent me a check for the cost of the tune-up and included $20 for the gas to drive it to and from the outboard dealer. I didn't ask them for the gas money. They sent it with an appology letter.
I better quit talking about it because I'm starting to miss that boat!

I'll tell you this: That is the company that I will buy my next boat from, if I ever get back into boating.

If these folks are going to sell A/C atv's, then I'm all for it. If I were A/C, I'd be trying to gain the upper hand on getting retailers and dealers to improve customer service. I've heard enough negative stories about some of their dealers. Their dealer network has been their weakest link due to their late arrival to the party. Companies with motorcycle lines already had extensive dealer networks in place in prime locations. Cat has always struggled with this, at least south of 40 degrees latitude. I've been fortunate to have a very good dealer, but that's part of what I shopped for.

The other thing is the statement about rolling it off the floor and heading for the hills. You are right about that, but small dealers do that, too. My dealer, as good as they are, will sell to anyone of the manufacturer's recommended age, without anything more than a few verbal instructions. They don't even talk about helmets. I don't believe small dealers necessarily do any better job at this than large ones. This is another area that manufacturers have to take care of for the good of the sport and their pocket books. At least Cat hands out a video and paid me 100 bucks to take the safety course, which I did. (They paid it quickly, too!)