What manufacturer has the best CVT???
Well going by the original question of the thread, and the first post...I can sure see how vj came up with honda. If anyone is interested in reading a good article, with pictures, of the rubicon features...here it ispopular mechanics
This only applies to the tranny in the rubicon and rancher 400. The rincon tranny is totally different.
Honda has gone way beyond the belt and pulley arraignment and come up with the best , most advanced, most sopisticated, cvt.

If we want to just stick with the belt type, cvt, then the ultramatic and suzuki types are the best.
Some a/c , with the suzuki motors have that same tranny. The vtwins, use the kawi system.
Yamaha has gone beyond the snowmobile type, and polaris has stayed true to it.
The yamaha type of cvt, has the pulleys and belt in constant tension. The belt nevers goes slack, and doesnt slap the belt cover, like the snowmobile types do. It uses a centrifical clutch, for engagement, and allowing idling in gear. It uses a sprag clutch, for engine braking. On these types, the belt never slips, unless it gets wet. Low range is never required, low is just an option. With this type, bump starting is possible. And engine braking is almost as instant as the gear type trannys.
On the polaris and similar...the belt is the clutch, and is a comsumable part of the tranny. And riding slow, requires low range, or the belt will be destroyed fairly quickly. Same as if you used 3rd gear, in a manual tranny truck for starting out...the clutch wont last long because of all the slipping. At idle the drive pulley, still spinning, opens to allow the belt to fall slack, then when the rpms go up, the belt is suddenly pinched by the drive pulley, and if there is alot of load, the belt is gonna do alot of slipping before it hooks up. With this type of cvt, there is a lag for engine braking. Also with this type, it isnt possible to bump start the motor.
The polaris type, is still very closely related to the belt drive snowmobiles of the 60s. Whether thats good or bad, depends on what youre after.

 

In my opinion, it all depends on what you mean by "Who has the best"? The best in terms of reliability, functionality, performance? From my experiences with the guys I ride with, this is my take on it.

Reliability - Honda, although it hasn't been out that long, from what I've seen, for the most part seems to be holding up maintenance free. Unfortunatly complicated and none adjustable. Not enough bottom end torque distribution.

Functionality - Yamaha and AC, I like that the clutch disengages in neutral. The belt is always tight so no slipping. Simple design and adjutable some what. Good torque distribution and the belt is slightly forgiving.

Performance - Kawasaky in combo with the V-Twin is excellent. Simple design and fun to play around and fine tune to your own requirements. Need to keep the belt well adjusted. To loose it slips and to tight it cherps. Also tons of torque distribution, but need to know the limits of the belt.

Not sure about the Polaris and Suzuky.

 

In my mind when I made my original posting I had basically had not even considered the Honda because of my understanding that their trannies use gears. I came to this conclusion based on evaluating the Rancher AT. It has electronic shift buttons and a display that shows the gears that you're in. It also has an automated shifting mode which Honda has dubbed an "Automatic Transmission"......thus the "AT" designation on the machine. My understanding is that the tranny has gears regardless of how well automated they set the eletronic shifting program. Now.......I knew that Honda had different automatic tranny(s) that they used on the Rincon/Rubicon........I 'assumed' (DOH!!!) that they also used gears because it was described to me by the Honda dealer that it worked "like an automatic car transmission"......last I checked car automatics still use gears. I NOW understand the "Hondamatic" tranny does not use gears....... that is how I came to a mistaken conclusion. Whoever said I should have researched it absolutely correct. I would have if I ever seriously considered a Rincon/Rubicon......but those machines were more $$$ than I was willing to spend so I didn't go further.

The essense of my question was really about the belt drive and how it has evolved. I suppose you could say that the "Hondamatic" evolved from the belt drive CVT........but really it's a completely different animal.......and seemingly a very real advancement.

Also, I'd like to thank 'hondabuster' for the link which describes the workings of the "Hondamatic".....I was NOT aware they had a tranny that worked without gears.

I hope this clears things up.

Bob.

Bob

 

Honda first released the hondamatic back in the early 70's on street bikes so while it has changed since then the basics of the transmission have been around for a while.

Bob, glad we got all of that cleared up. Bad information from a dealer is often the source of a lot of misunderstanding.

 

Maddog - I meant fairly new for an ATV application, but if the original design was done for a street bike, I guess this would explain why the bike has no bottom end torque.

Thanks for the insight.

 

Kawasaki

 

the hondamatic is ran off of hydraulic pumps there is no belts

 

IMO,the Yam and Suz belt drives are the better of the belt driven quads.They keep the belt tight in all applications,unlike Polaris and Kawi,which are very prone to belt related issue'/problems.

 

My vote is definatly either Honda Hondamtic Or the Yamahas Ultramatic.
and Hondamatic is definatly included in the CVT catagory....


DI

o plus its a hydromechanical CVT (hydrostatic) transmission, not just mechanical CVT [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

The Kawi for sure!