Question on No Locking Dif.
#21
01-31-2002, 12:03 PM
Thor~
Let me quote you and reply in kind. I really am not trying to start an argument, but when I see Bravo Sierra, sometimes my better judgement escapse me.
<< Speed into mudhole will also create steam which the engine will choke on. >>
Never had that happen either, but that is possible. If a Grizzly owner is concerned about that, all he/she has to do is put dielectric grease on their sparkplug. Instead of insinuating that this is a problem and can't be fixed why not explain why it supposedly can happen and the fact that it can be remedied if someone on a 660 experiences it? The airbox snorkel is under the gas tank cover and it is possible for steam to get trapped under the covers and then be sucked in the airbox. I have not had it happen, but theoritically it's possible, and the countermeasure is a snap. End of story...sorry there's no conspiracy here.
<< High RPM within the mudhole will cause the rpm limter to kick in and the tire rpm will not be high enough in locked 4wd to extract the Grizzly from the serious mud hole. >>
That is true, but it's also easily fixed. Goto your CDI box, and clip the white wire on the bottom that comes from the speed sensor. That's the only function of that wire, and you no longer have a 22MPH speed limit while you are continually LOCKED in the front end, and your digital display is not effected.
<< When the water and mud is deep enough, the sputters will get you hopelessly bogged. >>
If you are in deep enough water, it will do it on all belt driven tranny's. If you place the opening of a tranny snorkel lower then the water your tranny sucks water, belt slips, fact of life. Believe it or not this happens on the Mighty Polaris. I know you likely won't buy that, but "me and twenty eye's have seen this too many times to discuss."
<< Yada yada yada,. Trust us it is, and it works >>
GREAT ANSWER! Very informative, and instill's lots of confidence in others coming from a Polaris owner. While everyone is trusting you, why not tell them about the lack of 4 wheel engine breaking, or how hard it is to keep a polaris in "true 4X4" going down steep slick hills, or how fun it is lacking 4 wheel engine breaking going down hills? Or explain, as I did, that it works when it "senses it should", not when you tell it too. The inherent pitfalls of Polaris's "on demand" system vs other's "on command"?
<< Don't mean to disagree nor be condescending. This has just been my experience. BTW 600 Grizzlies totally s.... >>
Heck don't worry about it...but as they say turnabout is fair play. My experience with polaris's is the exact opposite of yours. My brother in law has spent almost as much $$ repairing his polaris's as he has purchasing them. Do I tell people they are a POS? Don't buy them? No. I think the evident bias and lack of depth of your post shows everyone the quality. I have also ridden with other 660's, and yes, it not liking water is most ceratinly a myth put out by those who don't like Yamaha's and those who have not bothered to investigate their machines to understand how it functions or are simply too ignorant. Funny how only a Polaris guy can seem to see these things happen on other manufactures machines....
Ohh...and "I don't mean to disagree nor be condescending." (just kinda came out that way like your post-go figure) "This has just been my experience. BTW, Poloris totally s...."
[end of sarcastic reply]
SilverBear
Let me quote you and reply in kind. I really am not trying to start an argument, but when I see Bravo Sierra, sometimes my better judgement escapse me.
<< Speed into mudhole will also create steam which the engine will choke on. >>
Never had that happen either, but that is possible. If a Grizzly owner is concerned about that, all he/she has to do is put dielectric grease on their sparkplug. Instead of insinuating that this is a problem and can't be fixed why not explain why it supposedly can happen and the fact that it can be remedied if someone on a 660 experiences it? The airbox snorkel is under the gas tank cover and it is possible for steam to get trapped under the covers and then be sucked in the airbox. I have not had it happen, but theoritically it's possible, and the countermeasure is a snap. End of story...sorry there's no conspiracy here.
<< High RPM within the mudhole will cause the rpm limter to kick in and the tire rpm will not be high enough in locked 4wd to extract the Grizzly from the serious mud hole. >>
That is true, but it's also easily fixed. Goto your CDI box, and clip the white wire on the bottom that comes from the speed sensor. That's the only function of that wire, and you no longer have a 22MPH speed limit while you are continually LOCKED in the front end, and your digital display is not effected.
<< When the water and mud is deep enough, the sputters will get you hopelessly bogged. >>
If you are in deep enough water, it will do it on all belt driven tranny's. If you place the opening of a tranny snorkel lower then the water your tranny sucks water, belt slips, fact of life. Believe it or not this happens on the Mighty Polaris. I know you likely won't buy that, but "me and twenty eye's have seen this too many times to discuss."
<< Yada yada yada,. Trust us it is, and it works >>
GREAT ANSWER! Very informative, and instill's lots of confidence in others coming from a Polaris owner. While everyone is trusting you, why not tell them about the lack of 4 wheel engine breaking, or how hard it is to keep a polaris in "true 4X4" going down steep slick hills, or how fun it is lacking 4 wheel engine breaking going down hills? Or explain, as I did, that it works when it "senses it should", not when you tell it too. The inherent pitfalls of Polaris's "on demand" system vs other's "on command"?
<< Don't mean to disagree nor be condescending. This has just been my experience. BTW 600 Grizzlies totally s.... >>
Heck don't worry about it...but as they say turnabout is fair play. My experience with polaris's is the exact opposite of yours. My brother in law has spent almost as much $$ repairing his polaris's as he has purchasing them. Do I tell people they are a POS? Don't buy them? No. I think the evident bias and lack of depth of your post shows everyone the quality. I have also ridden with other 660's, and yes, it not liking water is most ceratinly a myth put out by those who don't like Yamaha's and those who have not bothered to investigate their machines to understand how it functions or are simply too ignorant. Funny how only a Polaris guy can seem to see these things happen on other manufactures machines....
Ohh...and "I don't mean to disagree nor be condescending." (just kinda came out that way like your post-go figure) "This has just been my experience. BTW, Poloris totally s...."
[end of sarcastic reply]
SilverBear
#22
01-31-2002, 12:35 PM
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SilverBear,
Please tell me more about the CDI box modification to eliminate the 22mph limiter. Dumb question time:
What is the 'CDI box'?
Where is it found on the machine?
I take it there is only one white wire?
I still think that a Grizzly, with Hand warmers, a thumb warmer and 27" 589's would walk all over anything out there.
PS. You mentioned in the past that it is possible to put 28" rubber on a Grizzly. Would you do that on yours if the opportunity presented itself? If so, which tires would you use? I am probably looking in the wrong place, but the largest Titan 589's I have found are 27 inchers.
#23
01-31-2002, 01:04 PM
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SilverBear,
I forgot to ask another question:
Have you noticed any negative aspects from removing the sway-bars on your Grizzly?
I realize that Yamaha puts them on to help with body-roll, etc.
I also realize that removing it will increase independant wheel travel.
How have you over-come the body-roll after taking it off? I am anxious to see the pictures when you make the comparison in your garage.
I apologize because you may have already addressed these issues in past messages on the 'board'.
#24
02-01-2002, 07:49 PM
<< ....it not liking water is most ceratinly a myth put out by those who don't like Yamaha's and those who have not bothered to investigate their machines to understand how it functions or are simply too ignorant.
Funny how only a Polaris guy (and previous King Quad and Honda owner)can seem to see these things happen on other manufactures machines.... >>
?????
Let's let the threads speak for themselves.
From Atvnation
660 Issues
Southern forum
Sputter
<< I have a new 660 that I bought last Tuesday and the only problem I've had with it sputtering is when I got the exhaust under water when I fell off in a rut. I put it in reverse and started backing out and as soon as the exhuast cleared the water it started running fine again. When I started it up the next morning I put the plam of my hand over the exhaust and it made it start sputtering , so I pulled the spark arrester out put it in my vise and cut the screen off. It runs fine now. also I'm looking for a IDS Super Trap , Does anyone know if they make them yet for the 660. >>
More steam
Sputtering 2002
Sputtering Grizzly
Dielectric grease - no help
#25
02-05-2002, 12:11 PM
Thor~
To begin with, if you are going to quote something I said, don't change it it with your personal additions. That's misleading and false.
Secondly, If you would like, I will certainly be willing to take the time to go through the polaris threads and perform a cut and paste operation, and will gaurentee you that I will find more complaints about how Polaris's are a "POS" (coming from Polaris Owners) than you will about a Grizzly 660. I'll also stick to the Polaris forum for that bet.
Lastly, it doesn't change a thing I said. Once again, I had it in water & mud up to the headlights, and no sputtering or problems. Hmmm...I must have a faulty Grizzly, or perhaps I'm just sharp enough to know how to operate my machine.
End of Point
SilverBear
To begin with, if you are going to quote something I said, don't change it it with your personal additions. That's misleading and false.
Secondly, If you would like, I will certainly be willing to take the time to go through the polaris threads and perform a cut and paste operation, and will gaurentee you that I will find more complaints about how Polaris's are a "POS" (coming from Polaris Owners) than you will about a Grizzly 660. I'll also stick to the Polaris forum for that bet.
Lastly, it doesn't change a thing I said. Once again, I had it in water & mud up to the headlights, and no sputtering or problems. Hmmm...I must have a faulty Grizzly, or perhaps I'm just sharp enough to know how to operate my machine.
End of Point
SilverBear
#26
02-06-2002, 08:16 PM
Just to set the record straight Polaris does NOT have "true" 4WD. "True" 4WD does not require anything to slip in order for it to work at 100 percent. True 4WD will also work 100% of the time going up, as well as down hills. The Polaris system does not allow for this. Its a highly complicated, prone to failure kind of system, with WAY too many moving parts that need to work right in order for the system to function properly. When its working correctly, its a decent system. Unforunately it seems that the system doesn't work properly a lot more often than other set ups do!
I have ridden with the AC 500 auto a few times, and have found the front differential to be very effective! Its not a "locker", but it does seem to bias torque to the the right wheel at the right time. If the stock dif on my Griz had worked as well as the front dif on the AC 500 that I have ridden with in the past, I wouldn't have locked it!
Rick
I have ridden with the AC 500 auto a few times, and have found the front differential to be very effective! Its not a "locker", but it does seem to bias torque to the the right wheel at the right time. If the stock dif on my Griz had worked as well as the front dif on the AC 500 that I have ridden with in the past, I wouldn't have locked it!
Rick
#27
02-07-2002, 12:51 AM
Polaris actually has an AWD system (as in All Wheel Drive). It is All wheel Drive because it kicks in when it senses slipage, otherwise, it is in it's normal driving mode. Infact, I'm not sure if the new Polaris's are still like this, but the old ones use to have "AWD" glowing in the switch when you engaged the "4wd option."
#28
02-07-2002, 02:21 AM
Extreme Pro Rider
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Mountainburg, AR
Posts: 3,909
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First- Polaris AWD system- No, its not true 4wd, cause you don't have it to help slow you down going down hills. Sure you can trick it by backing up with the rev limiter override, but thats still not the same as a locked differential. You have to work your magic to get the same results.
Second- Silverbears speed limiter in the mud- OK, 22mph. Lets see, I usually mudded in 1st gear on my AC500 in the deep thick mud. 2nd gear would bog down so I didn't use it as much. 1st and second gears aren't getting you much higher than 22mph if at all, and I never found that to be a problem with the Arctic Cat. Hell, it wasn't even locked, so how is that speed limiter going to be a major factor???? The only times I had the tires spinning that fast on the AC, I was already framed out and stuck, and the only reason the tires could spin that fast was because they had already dug themselves some nice ruts around my grounded out frame and they weren't making contact with anything solid, just soupy $hitwater that most of which was getting slung up in my face. Can't buy into the locked speed limiter being a problem. Just another thing that has been thought up as ammunition against the 660 Grizz.
Third- 4wd systems- I've been in and out of it on the AC 4wd system. I still don't buy into the ignorant myth that it won't 3-wheel. Hell, I owned one for 3 wheels. It was a good limited slip, but it was still a limited slip differential. If your rear tires had broke traction and you had one front up in the air, you weren't going any further unless you rocked the sucker hard enough for that free spinning airborne front tire to catch the ground. It works nothing like the advertisements say it is supposed to. It won't spin for a while and then the grounded tire kick in. Thats horse crap. It never worked that way for me ever. As far as Yamaha's limited slip? Its not even as good as the AC version. Thats why it turns so good. It allows for more slippage, and less traction. If i have my 660 in regular 4wd, its not up to par with my old 500AC. Same goes for all Yamaha 4x4's. They are just not as good. Now locked, its a totally different game. Far and away better than the AC or any limited slip differential including the Visco-lock of the Traxter.
Thats what I like about the 660. I have 2wd, 3wd, and 4wd for just cruising, being able to steer easy in 4wd, and being able to get myself out of crap that I probably shouldn't have been in to begin with.
Second- Silverbears speed limiter in the mud- OK, 22mph. Lets see, I usually mudded in 1st gear on my AC500 in the deep thick mud. 2nd gear would bog down so I didn't use it as much. 1st and second gears aren't getting you much higher than 22mph if at all, and I never found that to be a problem with the Arctic Cat. Hell, it wasn't even locked, so how is that speed limiter going to be a major factor???? The only times I had the tires spinning that fast on the AC, I was already framed out and stuck, and the only reason the tires could spin that fast was because they had already dug themselves some nice ruts around my grounded out frame and they weren't making contact with anything solid, just soupy $hitwater that most of which was getting slung up in my face. Can't buy into the locked speed limiter being a problem. Just another thing that has been thought up as ammunition against the 660 Grizz.
Third- 4wd systems- I've been in and out of it on the AC 4wd system. I still don't buy into the ignorant myth that it won't 3-wheel. Hell, I owned one for 3 wheels. It was a good limited slip, but it was still a limited slip differential. If your rear tires had broke traction and you had one front up in the air, you weren't going any further unless you rocked the sucker hard enough for that free spinning airborne front tire to catch the ground. It works nothing like the advertisements say it is supposed to. It won't spin for a while and then the grounded tire kick in. Thats horse crap. It never worked that way for me ever. As far as Yamaha's limited slip? Its not even as good as the AC version. Thats why it turns so good. It allows for more slippage, and less traction. If i have my 660 in regular 4wd, its not up to par with my old 500AC. Same goes for all Yamaha 4x4's. They are just not as good. Now locked, its a totally different game. Far and away better than the AC or any limited slip differential including the Visco-lock of the Traxter.
Thats what I like about the 660. I have 2wd, 3wd, and 4wd for just cruising, being able to steer easy in 4wd, and being able to get myself out of crap that I probably shouldn't have been in to begin with.
#29
02-07-2002, 02:31 AM
Extreme Pro Rider
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Mountainburg, AR
Posts: 3,909
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For whoever commented on taking off the anti-sway bar- I can't think of anyone who did this before I did, and I haven't found one negative to doing it. I took it off in August, and it is not going back on unless I sell it for some reason. I don't notice any problem with body roll, and I do more than half of my riding right now ***** to the wall on dirt roads. From a maintenance standpoint, what exactly is going to mess up??? I mean the only thing that could possibly come under strain is the shocks. No problem there. The rear articulation isn't any more than the front so CV's aren't getting overloaded. Ride quality is no different to me. Wheel articulation is at least 3 times better than before, and it rides a hell of lot better in off camber and technical spots.
Removing the sway bar makes is a lot closer to the ever dominant rear end of the Arctic Cat 500i. Not near as good in my book, but a lot better than any swingarm in the business. Basically, the articulation is now as good as my AC500's swingaxle was, only with more ground clearance. Thats what I was shooting for when I bought it.
If you are trying to nail Silverbear with that topic, you should choose another percieved fault of the 660 to harp on. Why not bring up that bullcrap about boiling gas or something? Thats the best one I've heard.
Removing the sway bar makes is a lot closer to the ever dominant rear end of the Arctic Cat 500i. Not near as good in my book, but a lot better than any swingarm in the business. Basically, the articulation is now as good as my AC500's swingaxle was, only with more ground clearance. Thats what I was shooting for when I bought it.
If you are trying to nail Silverbear with that topic, you should choose another percieved fault of the 660 to harp on. Why not bring up that bullcrap about boiling gas or something? Thats the best one I've heard.
#30
02-07-2002, 10:19 AM
<< Thor~ >>
To begin with, if you are going to quote something I said, don't change it it with your personal additions. That's misleading and false.
>>>>>Funny how only a Polaris guy (and previous King Quad and Honda owner)can seem to see these things happen on other manufactures machines.... >>
I do not see how only adding the words (and previous King Quad and Honda owner) is misleading and false. It was only added to deflect the bias/ lack of credibility which you insinuated by applying artistic licence in the previous post.
Nice Spin!
<< If you are trying to nail Silverbear with that topic, you should choose another percieved fault of the 660 to harp on. Why not bring up that bullcrap about boiling gas or something? Thats the best one I've heard. >>
Nail Silver Bear? Perceived faults?
Come on Andy....
You guys are getting way to defensive and edgy about the Yamaha 660.
A lot of us have our opinions and read at least 3 other ATV forums on a regular basis. We all drive with other brands ATVs and most of have open minds to product advantages and disadvantages. Most of us have had the opportunity to attend rallies/public riding areas and observe other atvs in the water, in the mud, on steep hills, in off camber positions etc. over the years. These visual and auditory experiences form opinons, good or bad, based upon your particular point of reference.
We know the advantages/disadvantages of open/locked differentials and all of the nuances of of fwd/awd/part time fwd/full time fwd and the rest. We know what the various product strengths/deficiencies/reputations are and cures for these (perceived?) deficiencies by reading numerous posts and utilizing search engines within the forums.
Myths? Perhaps on this forum. Not at ATV Nation or over at Highlifter. Exagerated myths? Perhaps. Regarding some products, the threads of this forum as pure as the driven snow, yet while at other forums some the most ardent defenders of the faith are fighting with service writers, service managers, dealers, the factory and requesting letters of product defect confirmation from fellow product owners. These same people are also the most vocal and inquisitive regarding cures for alleged product defects on the other forums. (which is a good thing for all of us). I just find the whole situation curious.