I'm sorry to hear you are having problems with your 450. I repair all brands of quads with all different types of problems and I can assure you it isnt the Hondas that fill my wallet. I do think you are kidding yourself if you believe that any of the other brands have a better track record than Honda for durability and reliability. I do agree with you that there are more issues now than in recent years due mostly in part to electronics.
The more niceties they add to any quad the more things that are able to go wrong. This is true with any brand. I think your personal experience with this particular quad may have soured your opinion in this case, but that is understandable especially if you are not getting satisfaction with your situation. I'm sorry I cannot comment on your warranty problems because after 27 years and 11 different models of Honda (and a few other brands in between) I have never had to deal with a warranty situation with Honda. I just picked up a 2002 Foreman and I must admit I am thinking about a warranty plan. Probably not, but then the odds are probably going to turn against me more and more considering my past good luck. Hopefully you will end up with a positive outcome in your situation.
I also agree with you that we all will benefit from the competition!
Good luck with your situation and let us know what happens!

 

Trail boss,its good to hear from a mechanic who has experience with these units.You must be in my age group with 27 years of honda products under your belt.My first was a 1965 honda 90 in the late 60s and i have owned dozens of honda power products of all types from a cbx to a weed wacker.I like their products and still think they are good.I just wanted to make the point that it is not the same Honda attention to detail that we knew as kids.This 450es i purchased was a brand new 1999 model that was trouble from day 1..The trouble is related to the electronics and a constant drain on the battery which it was famous for.(and recalled for).The newer models are supposed to be free of this defect but i dont know anyone with a new one to comment on it.All my buds who had the 450es models sent them packing due to the electrical problems and bought the rubicons and 500 sportsmans.The 450 is a good machine to drive and handle and i bought it because of my experience with my previous 350 trx.Around the same time i purchased a 300 cat 4by 4 .This has short comings but it simply out performs the honda hands down in all but a race down a dirt road.I have no intentions of selling my honda because we do run the dirt roads and there are time when the extra power is nice.I simply want Honda to warranty the electronics as long as i own it and supply me with batteries etc.etc...and pay for the battery tender and the power to leave the unit plugged in all the time....Funny they never said this unit must be left on a tender 24/7 before i forked over 6500 bucks for it?It had 4 miles on it and was roughly a week and a half old before the first batt. was dead.American Honda told me to pull the shift logic computer fuse from the machine until they could figure out a remedy.As it turned out the unit has a 6 milliamp draw on the system all the time which makes short work of a battery unless its charged continually or the machine run every few days especially in the cold weather.Honda recalled the unit and installed a current control kit which i soon found out was a band aid to the problem because it still has a 3 millamp draw on the system.The batt still goes dead quickly.The interesting part of the dilemma is the attempt honda has made to explain why this machine wasnt represented as a unit that needs to be on a battery tender .......The problem was wide spread and with the ES models of 1998 and 1999 .I dont know about the later years.Check the wiring diagram of the later units and see if they havesome sort of ciruit disconnect when voltage reaches a certain level.This machine in its present state will wipe out a battery in a matter of days (unless on a tender)As a mechanic im sure you are aware of the difficulties of charging stone dead gel batteries.I havent had the numorous other problems with the electric shift that i have seen on the other boards but , i have just 550 miles on the unit.It appears to me that Honda rushed this model out too quickly with out proper testing.It was probaly due to the popularity of the auto trans models from the other manufactures.I dont take issue to a problem with a piece of machinery.I do take issue with a manufacturer trying to skate the issue.WE all arent fools.

 

I have to admit I have had one in for the same reason you describe. Most were repaired on warranty with no further problems. A 99 model with only 550 miles seems to be a very lightly used quad. This is actually part of the problem. If the quad sits a lot or is used infrequently or for short periods the battery rarely ever gets a chance to fully charge. A good way to kill a battery of any kind. This is no excuse however because the battery should hold a charge for months even without use. If you still have the problem Honda should address it as they do know the problem exists. The small amount required to run the clock in the display should be of no consequence. If you dont get any satisfaction from Honda on your problem I would suggest a master cut off switch to kill all power when not using the quad. This would at least extend the life of your battery. Though a little inconvienient to set the clock each time. Good luck!

 

The mileage is not really the issue.I use the tender or disconnect the batt.You could take this on a 300 mile ride and the batt will be dead in a week or two after shutting it off.My cat has similar mileage and has been fine.Trust me with two garages full of all types of machinery over the years ive seen it all.I have a second 350 honda trx that i bought New in 1986 and it is on its 3rd battery.The old honda can sit for months and still fire up fine.The 99 cat has only been charged once ...i left the ignition on for a few days.I fully understand the natural discharge rates of a battery in different temps but the es problem has nothing to do with the battery.It simply discahrges due to a continual current draw.The point i made with Honda was in the absence of any direction from the dealer or the owners manual, how was i to know this machine needs to be continually on a tender to enable it too function.Had i known i would have purchased anther model.. its that simple....They simply explain that it was designed this way and to leave it plugged in.This is nonsence, at times i leave the machine at my lake house and i dont necessarily want to leave it plugged in all week.What happens if the tender fails and cooks the batt. causing a fire?.I and many others had no intention of owning something that is in need of this continual maintenance.I had a conversation with another honda dealer at the time and he had customers so irate over this problem he was sending a flat bed out to pick them up.You buy a honda to AVOID all the problems.Ill tell you i almost let it go ..but the attitude honda has displayed to me recently is just obnoxious and it has motivated me to pursue the issue.You said you purchased a new 450es let me know waht if anything your owners manual says about battery maintenance.,,,,,,

 

Hey,

I have a 2002 400 with the act suspension and auto clutch, i have to shift gears.. I like to shift gears and an automatic trans robs horsepower and thats a proven fact, those were my deciding factors.

I went riding this weekend with a 450es and it didnt inpress me any, i do have alot of mods on my 4wheeler and that will make a difference. There was also a 600 grizzly with us and it didnt impress me either. I did watch both of them flip over and both got stuck in a mudhole i went through.

I talked to the guy with the 450es about the shifting of the transmission, he said after he had it for a while it has started lagging, he said it takes a couple of seconds for it to shift when he hits the button. The grizzly we were with had 180 miles on it and i dont know if it was the rider, which is a good friend of mine, wasnt used to the bike or was scared of it. I bought my 4wheeler to have fun, you cant have fun watching someone else go thru the mudholes and climb the hills.. I got hung up once that day, and neither the 450 or the grizz could get me out so my winch got me out.

The mudhole i went through was about 50 ft long 7 foot wide and about
bottom of the seat deep. I made it, the other 2 didnt.. I actually pulled them out, then later on that day the guy with the 450 was asking me how much a give for my bike and where i got it and so on.. The guy with the grizz wants some tires like mine, he has the stock tires which do suck.

I am completely satisfied with my 400 cat. My certificate of origin says around 24.3 hp, i run around 50 mph on my speedo with 26 3/8 diameter tire. i would say somewhere around 55-58 mph, not exactly sure havent done a gps run yet.
I think you would like either bike you get, but to me the ground clearance of the AC and the suzuki quadmaster engine, which imho is very reliable and has been proven for years and is a torque monster. On a trail ride thru the woods i would pic an Artic Cat. On rocky hill type terrain i would pic the Cat. Just about any technical trail where all out speed isnt a factor the Cat will do great and probably actually do better in my opinion, In a dragrace the honda would probably win..
You really need to ride one before you decide, i was lucky enough to be able to do so, I rode my friends honda 450es and my stepbrothers 454 Artic Cat. I chose the AC. I'm glad i did so far.

 

Hy

I do think that the driver makes the difference of the reliabylity issue. Hou does he use it???? Does he have the brain and the heart to care for the maintenance of the machine????

I have ridden manny snowmobile, well i tried them all manufacturer and all of them gave me good reliabylity but Polaris gave me more. Why??? Probaly because the model was well prouven and has been running for a long time. It was and Indy 500 1992 that had 18 000 miles and did always brought me home. I sold it in 1998.

I dont personnaly like compagnie that are using me as a guinnee pig.

So all machine have good side and bad side. You have to decide wich is better for you.

 

Dont get the wrong impression, I am on your side here. I agree with you that battery drain is the problem. What I was saying is that minimal use just accelerates the damage to the battery by never giving it a chance to recharge. My suggestion to you was just to help save your battery in the interim until the problem is resolved. ATV batteries in general are usually very good (Yuasa) The battery in my 1988 300 was original when I sold it at 6 years old. And this was used regularly for plowing and winching.
Are you saying that they told you to leave it plugged in when not in use? If so that is not only nonsence, it is bogus! I have never heard of this type thing from any dealer, let alone American Honda. I agree, I would never leave something like that plugged in at my cabin or anywhere else for that matter. Thats an invitation for disaster at some point sooner or later for the very reason you stated.
Did you pursue the problem while still under warranty? Did they attempt to do the "fix" and the problem continues? If so,and you have records you should have no problem in small claims court. Even if you didnt, when it is a problem they know about there should be no reason it cannot be resolved. We have only had 1 ES in our group which has since been traded on a Rubicon. He had his in for the battery drain problem, got it fixed and got a new battery and had no further problem.
As far as my new quad ....it is an S model. Same as my last one! The area I ride the most is very remote and breakdowns of any kind would be very inconvienient so I live by the keep it simple rule. After a conservative estimate of 40 to 50 thousand miles on 3 wheelers and quads I have yet to have a break down causing me to be towed out.

 

Trailboss450,
I agree with what you are saying. I love this AC forum because most times we tend to tell others about our experiences (good and bad) with quads of all types rather than bash any particular brand. I like to read all of them.....who knows someday I might be in the market for a good used quad and I will know all the good and bad about a particular model.

Now for the reason of the post. I visited your link and looked at your pictures. Did I see that you had two different types of tires for your new 450? Kenda Bearclaws and Titan 589 I think. Was this just for demo purposes, or do you have two complete sets of tires depending on your riding area? Or, do you actually mix both types of tires on one quad? If you do,why? And if so, what tires on front and what on the back? Why? Inquirings minds want to know! Great riding pics. Looks like you do a lot of the same riding as me.

 

sturgeonjim, I would go with the AC 500 auto. I have an AC 400 manual, and have been using it off and on for about a month now, and really love it! But I really wish I would have got an automatic. It's really nice to plow with, but trail riding is hard to get used to with the manual. It's really weird getting used to the auto-clutch too.

I would have to agree with some of the posts about Honda's reliability. (Not as good as it used to be). Arctic Cat is really making these quads nice.

I would definately buy an AC again.

 

The tire situation is a long story. A good friend of mine and riding buddy purchased and installed four 27x12x12 Bearclaws on his Foreman. After installing them and riding we found that the large side ***** on the Bearclaws would rub on the front shocks on hard (fully cranked) turns. Not all that bad but enough to notice. Not wanting to have a similar problem on mine and after researching tires I decided on the 589s. They are 27x11x12 and do not have the large side ***** like the bear claws. We mounted up 2 of them on front rims to check clearances and found they are a perfect fit without the use of a lift. The inflated diameter was the same, so I offered to him (as a fix to his problem) to take 2 of his Bearclaws and he would take 2 of my 589s. That would take care of his rubbing and get him out of it at no cost. I probably would prefer to have all four 589s, but I dont think there is that much difference in the performance of one over the other. The other thing you asked about was do I mix them for a reason? Other than the reason above, no...after having both....yes. The 589 seems to have a slightly more rounded profile than the Bearclaw. I believe it gives my quad easier steering than my buddies had with all 4 Bearclaws. But I do like the squareness of the bearclaws on the rear because of the stable feeling they give.
These are just my observations (early on) with these tires but over the years I have tried many different kinds and sizes. Tires are definately getting better all the time.