some adult needs to be prosecuted
Naaa That would not help. How many time the crime will happen again?
Kids should taken away from that environment and reprogramed.
Then the parents should be castrated! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]

 

Well, adults/parents/guardians are responsible and are held accountable for childrens (up to age of 18) behaviors and actions. This is an issue that needs to be addressed with concern to ATV riding also.

Laws are not always fair or just or address every specific issue but do to some degree serve as a boundry, limitations and guidelines for the masses. There possibly could always be an exception. And as adults we need to find ways to make ATV riding safe, fun and acceptable to the masses and not to just one group/community/affiliation of individuals.

 

When the morons quit being part of the problem and start working on solutions that will work, then and only then will I stop telling them they are wrong. PC does not work and your insistence on using it makes you part of the problem. Laws that punish the innocent along with the guilty or blame the tool for it's misuse are stupid and never solve the problem.

BTW, I will wager my IQ is higher than yours, but then a 2 digit midget would be higher than yours.

 

Well if your IQ is higher than mine then maybe you should start using it.

Maybe if you read and comprehened the entire feed then you may suprise yourself to see that some view points are very similar but only worded and looked at from a different perspective, rather than jumping all over an isolated comment or phrase and moving your nose to the other side of your head to resemble what you cover up with your pants, for the sole purpose of only fluffing up your own feathers feeling like you have inflated your own ego.

I neither will back down or find it necessary to accept personal insults from you regardless of who is viewing a topic from any point of view. And if your IQ is higher than the number of legal parents that you have, then maybe you should start to display that with appropriate generilized conversation rather than to attack and insult others, thinking that your are in some way superior or that your way is the only way or that your view points are the only correct ones. And if you find it necessary to attack people on a personal level with name calling and insults then you must be talking through what your pants cover up because if your IQ is as high as you claim then it certainly would not allow your mouth to participate.

And if you looked at things with an open mind and got your head out of your backside then what came out of your mouth may not be what you freely pass on to the toilet everyday.

 

If in a discussion group of this limited amount of people there is even one person that is for legislating against kids being able to ride // Nation wide we have a big problem.

From reading 50's post I'd say he really doesn't want to ban kids from riding. But he is mislead on the cc issue. If legislators were going to say maybe no bigger than a 250cc well that would be one thing. But, they're saying no bigger than 90cc. For a 15 year old you might as well say you can't ride a 10 speed bicycle anymore / you'll have to ride this 20" with training wheels. It's far too extreem, and we can't let law makers make these kind of desicions for us.

The only reason the training programs are not working now, is that they will not allow kids to take the course on any size quad - it has to be the recommended size for their age... So, if they are not showing up what is the problem. We bought my son the 90 - it is the one that fit his body. But, because he was 7 at the time, to take the course he'd have had to been on the 50cc. Was I to buy a 50 for him to take the class (or rent one) Hell no we just couldn't go. I'm sure I am not the only one that has happened to.
Now because I and My step father have ridden for years we trained him - but I would have liked for him to take the course as well. When you require people to do things that don't work - they will not do thim.

Banning the off roaders is one of the most single minded ideas I have ever heard in my life.
I may have always been a conservative - but I didn't dislike liberals before. Now, to me, they might have well declared war. It isn't just the issue of banning off roaders, but the idea of telling a whole group of people they are not going to be able to do something they've been doing for years. It is wrong...

 

I see how it is with you, you and your ilk get to have and state your opinion, regardless of how moronic and/or illogical they maybe. But God forbid, someone disagrees with you and points out the fallacies of your thinking. If that happens then these demons should be banned for having a different opinion than yours. Sonny, I served this country for many long years so you could spout off, but I damned well didn't give up my right to my opinion and the right to rebutt the foolish nonsense some people insist on believing, regardless of how their actions are destroying the freedoms so many fought and died for.

 

Bear get off it will you. Just let it go. If you want some cheese with that whine then I will supply it. And if you want to address me then you can do so with Sir and not Sonny. I served this country too, I am a Vietnam Vet. So just stop it and let it go. And while I am at it 'rebut' has one 't' not two, mister IQ. You remind me of what I have out in my pasture with extra long ears, it is incredible.

 

Bear, you start trouble with everyone don't you? My observation is you add absolutely NO value to the web site and only mislead people as well cause conflict. I suggest that you try get along with people and only add input where it add's value, as oppossed to being a misinformed no-it-all. I have yet to see one post from you that helps anyone.

 

Right on Sammydogs64 !!!!!!!!!!

Amen !!!!!!!!!!

 

I hear what you are saying and I am not saying what the laws dictate are correct or fair but let me approach it this way so that maybe we can have a greater understanding of the views of the legislations.

If permitted let me play the devil's advocate here for a few minutes. These are not necessarily my view or believes but let's see if we can disect this thing.

Most of the legislators, the ones in office that have the most power are probably close to my age. Here is what I think they are thinking and the approach that they are taking. When I was in HS we had 50cc Honda's and if you were lucky enough to have a 90cc then mister you were top dog of the county. Laugh, but it is true. I am 6' and weigh 200 and I could take a 50cc and put another person on it that weighted 200lbs and we could ride all over the place. So legislators know that a 50cc engine can move 400+ pounds.

They get information from various sources and they say "how can we limit the potential danger and keep it safe for everyone" They also know that trails have various degrees of difficulty and the more difficult the more potential danger. So then they say "how can we limit the machine itself from being able to negotate the more difficult trail". So then they say - well a 2x4 will be limited to easier trails. Then they say well this would be ok for kids to be one easy trails. Legislators are also aware that some 250cc machines can do well over 50, 60 and some even 70mph. So they say well we don't want kids to be able to go over 45mph. From data collected they discover that 90cc can do about 45mph, so then they determine that because of various trail difficulty, speed, various skill level of the kid, various knowledge of parents etc they say well we want kids to ride but we don't want them in dangerous places and we don't think that they need to go any faster than 40-45mph. They know that some parents will do a good job but they also know that some won't. So they scale this down to the 5,6,7 year olds etc and determine that 15mph and 50cc would be ok. I think that this is how they are looking at it and making these laws. I am sure that they are aware that some bigger kids are going to be at a disadvantage but from their view point they are looking at the masses and not at a specific exception to the rule.

So the bottom line is they are saying, they want to keep kids on easy trails so they limit the machine to a 2x4.
They say we don't want any kid 15 and younger from having the ability to go more than 40 or 45mph so they limit it to a max of 90cc.
They know that all kids are not equal and all parents are not equal, so they are looking at it from the stand point of the masses of kids and not the isolated exception to the rule.

Is this right and fair - I don't know. But I think that this is how legislation is looking at it. And they also feel that if we buck the system and their decisions then they will just pull the plug and say "no ATV's for kids period". Now do we buck them or work with them - remember they do have the power. I think I would work with them. I think I would see if there were a way to set up some training classes and skills test and if a younger child passed the skills test and had certified training then possibly yes a 7 or 8 year old could get on a 90cc machine after having proved himself by taking the classes and passing the test.

If we try to fight congress I don't see any possitive coming from it, but if we get actively involved and worked with them then we could possibly make some progress.