Not really, 3 teeth missing will generally not cause you any problems at all. I have been forced to ride with many teeth missing from front sprockets before. When I was younger, I had to support my riding on my own (parents and responsibility thing), so sometimes things got left until they just didn't work any more.

A bike will do fine missing teeth to a point, once that point has been met, the chain will skip every so often, usually breaking another tooth or two when that happens. Finally when all the teeth are gone, the chain will skip whenever put under a load (it will usually get you home fine though, unless there is some really gnarly terrain).

Unless something else is wrong, the chain will not be thrown.

Gabe
'86ATC250R
'86ATC350X
'00TRX400EX

[This message has been edited by 86atc250r (edited 12-28-1999).]

 

Is it really necessary for me to again say that I OWNED BOTH the atc and the banshee? When I first got the 3 wheeler, it had a pipe on it, that's all. I went to Glamis, and could barely hang with my friends stock '98 banshee, it WAS a close race. We weigh about the same, and both of us ran paddles. There was no issue of one rider being better than the other here. I then ported, head modded, carbed, and rad valved the trike (in other words - I dumped a lot of money into it that I never saw again when I sold it - in total about $3000 including the purchase price). Then and only then was I able to beat his stock banshee up olds hill (by about 3 bike lengths) and could almost hang with piped banshees, but could NOT beat them! I also had a friend with a bone stock trike, which I could beat before and obviously after my mods. He'd just about hang with the 98 banshee, but not "spank" him. I sold my trike and bought a '99 banshee. Ran it stock against my friends atc, and it was the same story, he'd just be able to keep up when hill racing. Then I put T-5's on my quad. Raced my friends atc again and smoked him bad. This stuff about racing on hard pack without paddles is really pointless. Everyone knows that the banshee spins its tires big time on hard sandy ground like fire roads. The atc would hook up better there, but this is a case of all things NOT being equal.

Who the heck cares about crankshaft hp??? Rear wheel hp is ALL that matters. No one can drive a quad around on its crank. The stock banshee 38 hp is rear wheel hp. The ds rear wheel hp is 48 (so says dirt wheels, atv sport, etc. but I have not seen an actual dyno run on the ds). I'm almost positive that the 32 hp I mentioned is rear wheel hp on the atc (it would have to be in order for it to run that well). All I ever mention is rear wheel hp, because its the only number you get from a chassis dyno. It's also the only way to measure the actual amount of hp reaching the ground. But then you need to hook up. Can you say paddles??? BTW - the stock banshee puts out 44 hp at the crank, but like I said, that's irrelevant.

I felt the same way as you did JohnR. when I beat the banshees with all of the mods on my trike, BUT there's no comparison on a track. If trikes were so damn good, then why are there no trikes racing against quads (and winning) in just about every class there is, huh??? It's not that the trike can't be ridden fast. A good rider can do that. It's that the SAME rider would be faster on a quad.

Why mention stock trike vs. piped banshee??? Because it is part of my actual experience and is relevant to this topic.

As far as getting a trike in order to "spank" banshees, be my guest. Go spend a bunch of cash on an obsolete machine. Then after you've had to lengthen the swingarm on the trike to keep it from flipping, go to the track and see how much worse the thing handles. It might be fast in a straight line (any idiot can go fast in a straight line), but jumping and turning will be worse than before. How many of you have jumped both quads and trikes? I have (I even snapped the stock atc axle on a jump). Ever been sideways and get the bars yanked from your hands on the trike? I have. Ever notice that the quad is much more stabile when landing, turning, sliding, accelerating than the trike? Yeah, I have noticed this one too. Have any of you actually raced these machines??? I'm really starting to wonder about how much experience some of the people here actually have. Sorry if this seems arrogant, I'm a bit frustrated and haven't had my morning coffee yet.

 

I have also seen a 86 250R beat a 99 Banshee In a drag not once but a few times. The 250R had 3 teeth missing on the front sprocket and slick stock tires. The next weekend he had new Ohtsu's and a new sprocket and really put a spankin on the Banshee.

 

Boy Sandmanblue you're always filled with so much hostility.

Here are my experiences, mainly from last year, I did a lot of riding with a lot of other people at a friend's mx style track.

I have bananna'd the axle on my 250R, I have raced my 250R against many others on our private MX track, and I have drag raced the 250R against others.

ATC250R on jumping:
The 3-wheeler flies nicely, it takes a ballsy rider to really sky a 3-wheeler, but it is a rewarding experience. Last year I banana'd my axle and badly flintstone'd the insides of a couples sets of wheels doing just that (jumping has also broken a swingarm on my 350X (couple of years ago), cracked the 250R swingarm, and my buddy with the 400EX broke his cast swingarm (among other things)). As of last year I nor anyone else could get more air on any of the other bikes (including banshee's, TRX250R's, 400EX's). The ATC250R is very light and that makes a big difference.

Want to see what I consider <a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~gellett/racetrack.htm">jumping</a>? Follow the links to our Little Sahara trip. (no 3-wheeler air pics though...) - there's a few new ones here for those who have seen the originals.

ATC250R Racing:
Well, the local motocross track wouldn't allow me to race on the 3-wheeler, I suppose that's why you don't see them racing anymore.

I can consistantly beat the other bikes at our track with the exception of a buddy on a 400EX, he would catch me on some of the corners, and I would pull on the straights. I couldn't lose him, and if he was ahead, he would usually pull away.

You are correct though when you say that you put a good 3-wheeler rider on a quad and he will be faster at the track though, because when I got on my friend's 400EX I set the track record for ET (beat myself on my 250R by 3 seconds). The 400EX is far less demanding and fatigue-ing than the ATC250R (ride harder for longer)

As for drag racing, my 250R has an FMF pipe, reeds and is bored 40 over, that's it. It will run away from the stock Banshee's (Don't ride with any mod Banshees, and haven't raced in the sand). No excuses about tire spinning, if that is occuring an adjustment in riding style is needed, that's all part of racing, my front end is very hard to keep down, I'm sure that balances out with the tirespin on the Banshees. Also on the sand I don't know, but I would think the diminished drag from the lack of the extra front tire would make a big difference as well.

No one has really jumped on my 250R and raced any of the other bikes, everyone's afraid of the ATC, but many have said they would love to have it's power (very nice blend of low, mid, and high in ample amounts), just on a different chassis (bunch of pansy "quad only" riders!)

------------------
Gabe

'86ATC250R
'86ATC350X
'00TRX400EX

 

Ok, here goes...real simple and real world.
ATC Stock will beat stock banshee
(as calculated with LB/HP earlier)
(And as personal experiance)

Dollar for dollar in each machine, the ATC will spank the banshee. Simply put a set of pipes on a banshee ($464 for T5 Pipe, silencer and jet kit add $130 for chrome pipes) Then put a pipe on the ATC ($129.99 DG 81-86atc pipe and silencer chrome) Then port the jug ($100 tops S.hills) then get the Fmf ram valve ($72) Then lets get the ProDesign cool head (more compression) ($175 from W.C. atv) Ok, now we matched your no chrome T5 price, want chrome? Becuase I need a +4 axle so I can fly by you with the front wheel somewhere near the ground. Maybe I'll just get the CT 310 kit for $835 (Includes CT ported pro-x cylinder & head, forget piston kit, hardened studs, gaskets and orings) Can you say by-by banshee? You'll have to say it, becuase I'll be to busy trying to hang on. Wanna talk about handling? Then you need to get off that banshee...yahama didnt engineer that yet. Were talking about beating the banshee at its own game, speed.) If you want to handle better, buy the TRX250R) I'll have my ATC warmed up if theres any dowbt. If you want more power and awesome handling for the dunes, then the LT500R will be there too.3


Dominator
LT500R
ATC250R

 

I think dominator pretty much summed my feelings up too. As for running on sand with paddles, BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT, a gang of us went to Silver Lake Dunes of the summer and beat almost every Banshee we came across the whole seven days we were there(including some that were ported and piped while all of us put one had stock jugs). The only two to beat us were 100% drag machines (one was on the back of Trinity Racing's catalog a couple years back, I think the built it top to bottom) with very long swingarms and all. By the end of the strip at the bottom of the entrance road my buddy's 250r (which was the only ported one we brought) was out MPHing them big time and they would cut gas before he could fly past them. We'll be out again this year and I will be there with a professionally ported jug, cool head, +12" swingarm and probably nitrous, but now we are straying too far from the topic so I'll quit now.

PS. This IS getting good, people are getting fired up! Cool!

 

JohnR...Hope to see you at silver lake this summer! I also own a atc 250r with a top end port job, pipe, and reeds. I have road at silver lake with it, but didnt have paddles
I have retired the atc, to replace it with my quadzilla, but I still love the 250r.

Have you considered a bore kit for your 3wheeler adleast the 310kit? ($845 with new ported jug) I'm really excited to see one on a atc, but cant afford that on a toy.

[This message has been edited by Dominator (edited 12-30-1999).]

 

For all of you that are really interested in 250R mods, go visit www.macdizzy.com and look into the glamis section.

There is a LOT of info on porting, performance, and some dyno runs on a project 270cc motor. There is also mention of the 295/310cc kit and 330cc kit as well. Vibration seems to be a problem due to the higher piston weights on these kits.

Of interest is a dyno run on the 270 project that tops out at about 53 or 55 hp... at the rear wheels.

There is another section through one of the links where they build a RZ350 (read banshee with power valves) motor to 80 hp, and it's done at 350cc's.

If you're really into performance, it's a great site.

 

I lost my refrence material, but there was a 630cc banshee motor in dirt wheels, the one they can against the honda 400R. The 630cc banshee motor put out 83 some hp. If they can match that with just power valves on a 350cc then thats great! They can engineer stuff alot better, but they choose not to.

 

I just want to correct your math...First of all, a stock 86 ATC250R will beat a Stock Banshee...A Piped 250R will beat a Piped Banshee. After that it depends on the mods you do. My friends and I ride Banshees and 250R's all the time. I know the truth. Also my title for my 86 ATC says that the SAE Hp rating id 38.4 Hp stock. No offense meant by this just the truth.