Mojave's place in the GNC Nationals. (tpender)
#1
03-18-2002, 10:00 AM
I spoke with tpender at this past weekend about what class I thought the Kawasaki Mojave 250 should be run. Tpender asked my opinion on developing a class for Warriors, Mojaves, 250X/300EXs, and Blasters and now I'm asking everyone that reads this what their opinion of this is.
I believe that the air-cooled clas should be the 91cc-3??(maybe 380)cc 4-stroke/ 91cc-240cc 2-stroke class. What do you guys think?
tpender, please add to this post if you have any comments.
I believe that the air-cooled clas should be the 91cc-3??(maybe 380)cc 4-stroke/ 91cc-240cc 2-stroke class. What do you guys think?
tpender, please add to this post if you have any comments.
#5
03-18-2002, 04:43 PM
lurch, go to www.gnccracing.com
They have started a new pro production class, but more important they replaced the blaster class with a B class production class, wich is 350cc and below 4 stroke and blasters. Go to the rules set up on that one, it looks real good.
They have started a new pro production class, but more important they replaced the blaster class with a B class production class, wich is 350cc and below 4 stroke and blasters. Go to the rules set up on that one, it looks real good.
#6
03-19-2002, 10:29 AM
The GNCC has got it right and the GNC needs to do the same. The new class is called the sport class and rules are as below, copied from the GNCC web site
5. Sport (ATV) - Restricted to the following models: Honda 250X, 250EX and 300EX; Kawasaki Mojave 250 and Lakota 300; Polaris Trail Blazer; Suzuki Quad Sport 230 and 250; and Yamaha Blaster and Warrior. Modifications are legal. The maximum engine displacement is 350cc.
Max 350 cc is a perfect size but the way it reads a 2 stroke could be 350 also and that should not be. should be max 250 on 2 strokes, only because thats what the polaris is. and no engines other than the original should be allowed. That would keep built 250r engines out of other frames allowed in this class.
The Mojave (and maybe the Warrior)is really the only Quad that gets shafted in the present air cooled class. Just letting it run there would be a major improvement. Why could that not start now, without having to wait til the end of the season? Most mojave guys will not care if they lost a race or two in the points chase, they probably aren't going to make enough races anyway.
tpender, you out there? can you help or share some ideas here?
I really don't want to run my mojave that I have worked so hard on against yz426, built 440, and drz400 quads with high dollar aftermarket frames. Does the GNC not want to have a full representation of different makes that can be competitive in at least some class somewhere, kinda like Nascar strives so hard for brand parity?
The mojave and possibly the Lakota are the only kawi products in production that have a chance to compete, with the mojave being the best option. You have no real place for the mojave to run.
5. Sport (ATV) - Restricted to the following models: Honda 250X, 250EX and 300EX; Kawasaki Mojave 250 and Lakota 300; Polaris Trail Blazer; Suzuki Quad Sport 230 and 250; and Yamaha Blaster and Warrior. Modifications are legal. The maximum engine displacement is 350cc.
Max 350 cc is a perfect size but the way it reads a 2 stroke could be 350 also and that should not be. should be max 250 on 2 strokes, only because thats what the polaris is. and no engines other than the original should be allowed. That would keep built 250r engines out of other frames allowed in this class.
The Mojave (and maybe the Warrior)is really the only Quad that gets shafted in the present air cooled class. Just letting it run there would be a major improvement. Why could that not start now, without having to wait til the end of the season? Most mojave guys will not care if they lost a race or two in the points chase, they probably aren't going to make enough races anyway.
tpender, you out there? can you help or share some ideas here?
I really don't want to run my mojave that I have worked so hard on against yz426, built 440, and drz400 quads with high dollar aftermarket frames. Does the GNC not want to have a full representation of different makes that can be competitive in at least some class somewhere, kinda like Nascar strives so hard for brand parity?
The mojave and possibly the Lakota are the only kawi products in production that have a chance to compete, with the mojave being the best option. You have no real place for the mojave to run.
#7
03-19-2002, 11:54 AM
You have to give me a chance to rest after the weekend. I don't get home from the races till Monday afternoon. Lets first talk about the rules for GNCC and GNCthey are 2 different types of racing and what works for one will not work for the other. A good example of this in GNCC the Pro class in kind of run what you want, but with the GNC has a limit of 250 and 440. I have talked to the Pro rides about this and they want a limit of some kind at the GNC.
You can not make a rule change during the season. There are several reason for this, for one it is not fair to the rider that started the season in the class and know the rules are changed and then that person might then be able to beat him.
I just got done writing an article for a mag about how hard it is to set up ATV classes because of the wide spread and major differences between ATV's and then trying to group which ones together to form a class for each to be somewhat equal. And then when you think that you have it correct, someone goes out and builts some type of hyper special quad to get in. GNCC had to rewrite there rules just before the seaso0n started because of the special C-dales so that they could not rule in the stock classes. Remember, what is done at a local level of racing is different from what is done at the nationals as far as class setup because of the number of riders.
Lurch, remember what I told you this past weekend about what one of the mags said about the Mojaves. "The only reason that any one would want to buy a Mojave is if they realy liked the color green." That's there opinion not mine.
You can not make a rule change during the season. There are several reason for this, for one it is not fair to the rider that started the season in the class and know the rules are changed and then that person might then be able to beat him.
I just got done writing an article for a mag about how hard it is to set up ATV classes because of the wide spread and major differences between ATV's and then trying to group which ones together to form a class for each to be somewhat equal. And then when you think that you have it correct, someone goes out and builts some type of hyper special quad to get in. GNCC had to rewrite there rules just before the seaso0n started because of the special C-dales so that they could not rule in the stock classes. Remember, what is done at a local level of racing is different from what is done at the nationals as far as class setup because of the number of riders.
Lurch, remember what I told you this past weekend about what one of the mags said about the Mojaves. "The only reason that any one would want to buy a Mojave is if they realy liked the color green." That's there opinion not mine.
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#8
03-19-2002, 01:52 PM
tprender, Thanks for the reply, it is good to have you on the forum for sure. It seems like it was just a couple years ago when the GNC changed that class to say air cooled only. Before that it had a 200 and 300 cc limit I believe, with no air cooled restrictions. When the rule changed I thought that they must have changed it just to keep the mojaves out. I guess it really has to do more with the two stroke machines then the 4 strokes, but it did leave the mojave out in the cold. Was that even considered at the time? I also believe that the GNCC and GNC classes will work about the same for most of the classes. The idea of putting the quads allowed in the GNCC Sport class together is great and would work in the GNC. It does have a limit on displacement, and with proper wording will keep the class competitive for those of us that can not afford a $30,000 quad with a yz426 in it. I know you must have some influence and a well respected opinion within the GNC, so give it some thought in your spare time and if you come to the same conclusion that the mojave is lost please let your voice be heard. I really do understand how difficult it is to establish atv classes that are fair and resonable. I also appreciate the work that goes in to all that must happen to put on a season of the GNC.
I really do like green by the way.
thanks for being here on the forums once again and keep up the good work. Let me know if you could use a hand at Parker Valley, I will be glad to help
I really do like green by the way.
thanks for being here on the forums once again and keep up the good work. Let me know if you could use a hand at Parker Valley, I will be glad to help
#9
03-19-2002, 01:54 PM
tprender,
I have to disagree with you on this one, but out of the up most respect for the GNC and you.
The format is realy very simple, we have the bikes class set ups, the super bike set ups and drag bike set ups.
In are current atv organizational system if we aplied the theories based on the atv class set up to say drag racing you would be pairing up top fuel harleys with 250 street bikes, and thats about a real life comparisson.
why is there say 125cc bikes that have novice or biginner and senior or expert, and why do these bikes stay sepperated, in our current classes they would run together.
Also in bikes you have 125cc, 250cc, and open classes at a pro level, in the atv world you have a 250 mojave classed with what is usualy considered a pro modified or outlaw classed yzf 426 powered custom frame quad.
I don't want to argue with you or any one else, but in real life Fast by Gaff racing will never enter nor sponsor any atv national riders or quads for the reason that the GNC poeple and the ATVA has failed to address any issue brought to them on these classifications or rules that govern them.
The atv world is all about the biggest bore and the fastest quad, nothing about 100% exsposure of the manufactures or quads through out the size range.
The atva gives us another slap in the face this week by not posting the quad results from the GNC macon race, but go take a look, bet you will find out who placed in all the bike races on the "ATVA" site.
Please excuse me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the ATVA developed as a body to help govern and permote "ATV'S".
I'm not hot on you tom it's just another week has past and another slap in the face of the ATV guys.
I hope you and others sit down this next winter and throw every thing you have away concerning GNC and the rules/regulations that you have to date, because I and others see what you all know, it would be easier to devise a new series from ground zero than to build on the one that is going at this time.
Once again tom I have nothing but respect for you, but after 30+ years I have been in more than one rodeo, and letting atv pro riders on outlaw quads dictate how a series will be run will never get the manufacturers or exposure that this sport so desperately needs!!
I have to disagree with you on this one, but out of the up most respect for the GNC and you.
The format is realy very simple, we have the bikes class set ups, the super bike set ups and drag bike set ups.
In are current atv organizational system if we aplied the theories based on the atv class set up to say drag racing you would be pairing up top fuel harleys with 250 street bikes, and thats about a real life comparisson.
why is there say 125cc bikes that have novice or biginner and senior or expert, and why do these bikes stay sepperated, in our current classes they would run together.
Also in bikes you have 125cc, 250cc, and open classes at a pro level, in the atv world you have a 250 mojave classed with what is usualy considered a pro modified or outlaw classed yzf 426 powered custom frame quad.
I don't want to argue with you or any one else, but in real life Fast by Gaff racing will never enter nor sponsor any atv national riders or quads for the reason that the GNC poeple and the ATVA has failed to address any issue brought to them on these classifications or rules that govern them.
The atv world is all about the biggest bore and the fastest quad, nothing about 100% exsposure of the manufactures or quads through out the size range.
The atva gives us another slap in the face this week by not posting the quad results from the GNC macon race, but go take a look, bet you will find out who placed in all the bike races on the "ATVA" site.
Please excuse me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the ATVA developed as a body to help govern and permote "ATV'S".
I'm not hot on you tom it's just another week has past and another slap in the face of the ATV guys.
I hope you and others sit down this next winter and throw every thing you have away concerning GNC and the rules/regulations that you have to date, because I and others see what you all know, it would be easier to devise a new series from ground zero than to build on the one that is going at this time.
Once again tom I have nothing but respect for you, but after 30+ years I have been in more than one rodeo, and letting atv pro riders on outlaw quads dictate how a series will be run will never get the manufacturers or exposure that this sport so desperately needs!!
#10
03-19-2002, 02:12 PM
tpender, it was great meeting you and helping out. I got to see allot of trick quads up close and personal.
In stock form, the Mojave is good for only trail riding, which is what I actually bought mine for. Very few people put the time and effort into their Mojave like mojaveaddict and myself have to get ours where they are now....with the exception of my now bent frame. Again...that is a bummer. Anyone want to contribute to the "Lurch Needs A New Frame" fund? LOL [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
I watched the aircooled class run and that class really looks more competative for the smaller displacements quads. Is there any way at all we can lobby the ATVA to make the change for next year? (i.e. call someone, send an email, get a patition started, etc...)
I spoke with Doug Morris about how I can help out at these events. I think that even when I can only come to the track and watch, I will be helping out.
What ever happened to the Ingram kid, #13?
In stock form, the Mojave is good for only trail riding, which is what I actually bought mine for. Very few people put the time and effort into their Mojave like mojaveaddict and myself have to get ours where they are now....with the exception of my now bent frame. Again...that is a bummer. Anyone want to contribute to the "Lurch Needs A New Frame" fund? LOL [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
I watched the aircooled class run and that class really looks more competative for the smaller displacements quads. Is there any way at all we can lobby the ATVA to make the change for next year? (i.e. call someone, send an email, get a patition started, etc...)
I spoke with Doug Morris about how I can help out at these events. I think that even when I can only come to the track and watch, I will be helping out.
What ever happened to the Ingram kid, #13?