Good point about the 350X Tom. From what I have personally seen, these motors are power houses! Also, from what I have seen, most are running +400cc kits as well. Well.....I guess I should have thought of this one.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img] I wouldn't consider that to be a "sportsman" ride. The whole point of a "Sportsman" class would be to keep the class very affordable, very competative, and just plain fun.

What do you think the rule should be on this Tom? Anyone else?

We are all trying to achivethe same goal, so lets all work together make this sport the best of the best!!!

 

I also was in contact with Doug Morris about other issues with the ATVA. Mainly the emails started about the involvement of the ATVA in local race series. I was pleasantly surprised that the ATVA is helping the local quad series get started. But here are the ideas that I sent to Doug on the class structures.

There are three levels for each class (focused on the GNC).

Outlaw – there are no rules in this class. Anything goes from bike motors to anything that does not fall into the other categories.

Production – this is an extension off the stock class. The quad must be (or have been) a production model. Modifications to the frame/suspension are allowed as long as they follow the same geometry of the stock quad. So aftermarket arms are OK, as long as you can bolt them to a stock frame. Aftermarket frames are ok, as long as you can bolt up stock parts.

As for the motors, you are allowed up to the manufactures bore size. So for the 89 250r you can go to 80 over. No powervalves are allowed, since the stock cylinder did not come with one. Powervalves must go to the outlaw class. Same with 310 kits. For the four strokes, you are allowed to go to the stock recommended bore. While I am not too familiar with the 4 strokes, I believe that a 440 kit in a 400ex would not be allowed. Like I said, I am not too knowledgeable with the internals of motors, but you can modify the motors to a point. I will let the people with more know how decided the actual rules. Porting would be allowed in the 2 strokes and cams would be allowed in the 4 stroke. Simple mods that everyday riders can have done.

Also, there would be no limit to the cc size, nor split between 4 stroke and 2 stroke. As long as the quad is offered as a production model. No one offs allowed (KXF-250, etc) so if a Raptor wants to race in this class it can. I look at this class to be the battle of the simple modified production quads.

Stock class – This class would be stock only. Say the only options would be an exhaust, air filter and jetting. Since MX has a lot of jumps, I would say allow suspension mods, arms, axle and shocks. But nothing internal on the motor. This class would be for the “poor” man racing.

For each skill level, there would be a combined class. This would take the top ten of the lower class and anyone below the top ten of the upper class. So in the Expert-Amateur class the top ten Amateur riders could race against the lower Expert riders. This will allow the lower class to see how they would do if they moved up. And give the lower expert riders a chance to get extra track time to improve.

The beginner class is for first year riders only. After one year you should move up to the novice. Also, there is no outlaw class for the beginner. If you have some outlaw quad, then you should not be a beginner.

So it would basically look this…

Pro Outlaw
Pro Production
Pro Stock
Pro-Expert Production
Pro-Expert Stock

Expert Outlaw
Expert Production
Expert Stock
Expert-Amateur Production
Expert Amateur Stock

Amateur Outlaw
Amateur Production
Amateur Stock
Amateur-Novice Production
Amateur-Novice Stock

Novice Outlaw
Novice Production
Novice Stock
Novice-Beginner Production
Novice-Beginner Stock

Beginner Production
Beginner Stock

The age limit for that above class are 16 years old.

For 12 and up ages, there is the following…

Intermediate Production
Intermediate Stock

Limits would be set at 300 for a 4 stroke and 220 for a 2 stroke. Blasters, 300exs Mojave etc.

For the younger crowd there would be two age brackets…
Ages 9-12
Youth Production
Youth Stock
Ages 6-9
Youth stock only.

For the youth groups, only production type quads are allowed. No bike motor hybrids.

 

I think it should stay the way it is with maybe a few new editions. The "Sportsman" class is a great idea. If this class is added I see little room for improvement to the way it is now.

 

ok heres my 10 cents...............the sportsman class is a good idea..but i dont think that the classes should be pro production then pro outlaw novice...etc...i think they should have:
Pro
Open pro
Pro Am
A B C
Open A B C
Open
Sportsman
Open air cooled..
women
veterns
the the kids classes..
the i think they should have Rookie class..for those people that just started nationals this year...then a beginner for people that just started racing..1 year or less experience... I also think that they should have a 16-18 and a 19-24..
but thats just my 10 cents...

 

"the sportsman class is a good idea..but i dont think that the classes shouldnt be pro production then pro outlaw novice...etc...i think they should have:"

that should in the first reply is suppose to be shouldnt..i was in a hurry..

 

A few other notes…

I could care less about the pro set up. Sure I love to watch them more than the other class, but how many riders at a GNC event are pros? Not to many when compared to all the other classes. This is why I suggested the classes that way. I focused on how to separate the “regular” riders into better or more even classes.

In our race series (NEATV-MX) many people complain that all the same quads run against each other. The four stroke class has been mostly 400exs and the 2 stroke class is mostly 250Rs. This is one of the reasons I have run the open classes with a 2 stroke legal quad. I wanted the chance to race against other quads.

I say lump all production quads into two groups. Modified and Stock. This way, when people want to bench race on which quad is better, there will be proof. If a 400ex rider feels that his machine will be better on a MX course due to the handling against a Raptor, then let them duke it out.

Keeping the classes the way they are now will not help the sport grow. If some one wants to build a hybrid quad, let them, but put them all in the same class. I would rather see how the current (and past) production quads do against each other on the track. In both stock trim and modified.

With regards to the kids classes. Currently the rules are a joke on the age limits. I will not even get started on this topic, other than ATVA better wake up. The kids are the future of racing. I would hate to see how many kids choose bikes over quads because of the rules and age limits. A complete joke.

 

Yea i do have to agree that the age limit for quads is stupid..its sad for a big 15 or 14 year old to have to ride a trx 90 and the kid being 5 8 150 lbs...the 90 wouldnt pull them up a hill.....but if we have:
Pro Outlaw
Pro Production
Pro Stock
Pro-Expert Production
Pro-Expert Stock
i think that there would be too many pro classes..if u have a guy on a 400ex that has to run lets say....production.....he may be like Jermiah Jones vs. lt 50.....and it not be fair for the other riders...but if he can ride with the outlaw against 450fs the he would have competition and it would cause a mass confusion about all classes..but this is just my idea..

 

Here is something to think about:

Pro
Pro OEM
P-A(250 and 440 mod)
P-A OEM
P-A open(251 up and 441 up)
A and B just like P-A 3 classes each
C 2-stroke
C 4-stroke(440)
C open(251 up and 441 up)
In the C class no motorcycle engines and no after market frames
Sportmans(220 2-strokeand 300 4-stroke limit)
Womens A and B
I will talk about youth later

What about this for classes?

 

personally i don't think production classes should be limited to 4-strokes only. lets leave the door open to the manufacture of production 2-strokes, especially a closed-course production machine.
if there is a class called 'stock' it better be stock, only changes allowed being air filter, jetting, shock re-spring/re-valve (but no aftermarket shocks,) handlebars/controls, and tires.(nerfs still required) no internal motor massage work, lengthening/shortening or widening either.

second, displacement rules should follow the same lines as the motorcyle segment, 250cc 2-stroke & up to 450 4-stroke in the same class, with allowable bores, not just 440cc... (who came up with that number anyway? cannondale?)

displacement classes whould be in 3 basic groups, each with A, B, and C classes.

1) big bore- any above 250-2/450-4
2) mid bore- 250-2/450-4 (plus allowable bores) max... sure a smaller bore can enter, but what good is it?
3) small bore- 220-2/350-4(plus allowable bores) max.

i know nothing about the needs in the kids classes, while agree that the current age rules stink, they don't apply to me(i don't have kids either)... so i can't really give input on them... it's probly the fastest growing segment too, but i have no idea what its needs are.

there needs to be an adult(over 21 y/o) 50cc or 90cc class!!! anything goes, just stay under the displacement limit!

 

I have a few questions I need clearified.....

ImageRacer250r: What is the difference between Pro and Open Pro. Also, Sportsman and open air cooled?

Lasher: How we are to get the top and last 10 riders to ride in the other class? Would it be from the year,race, or what before. You want all 4-strokes to ride together from the 400ex to the Raptor in the same class, but he limits the 2-stroke to just 250. What about the Banshee?


Let me know if I need to rephrase the questions.