I think that we need to look at how many entries there are in each class! For instance, the 200 Air class only had 4 entries at Macon. Maybe the cc limit hurts this class! If we changed it, there still would not be a full gate. Changing it to a Sportsman class would help it!
1.) Change the "air-cooled" class to the "Sportsman" class.
a.) Allow up to @350cc for 4-strokes and @220cc for 2 strokes. This way,
Warriors will have a home as well.
b.) NO Motorcycle Engines Allowed. Current Production ATV Motors only!
c.) NO Aftermarket Frames Allowed.

The Youth classes are hurting the sport because of kids having to wait to race a quad that fits them. Yes it does cost a lot to modify a 90 Mod quad but to put a kid on a 250 would not help matters either. Maybe put a 125cc class in for the youths. There should also be 3 Youth age limits! 6-9, 9-12, 12-16! Allowing the 6-9 ages to race only 90 Stock, the 9-12 would race 90cc Modified and the 12-16 would race 125cc Modified

So it would basically look this…

Pro
Pro Stock
Pro Production

Getting rid of Pro-Am classes might increase the qualifying & entries for the Pro Motos and allow bigger purses to be paid out? Plus bring in more OEM attention with the amount of entries in each class!

250 A-B-C
Open A-B-C
4-STROKE A-B-C
AGE Classes +25 +30 +40 (adding the 19-24 class looks to be working good)
Womens
Sportsman
Beginner Stock
Youth A(12-15)125cc
Youth B (9-12) 90cc Modified
Youth C (6-9) 90cc Stock

These might be good ideas or just some dumb thoughts but I think that there is room to improve on everyone's ideas!

Rick Frisco
Rem-N-S Productions

 

Lurch, the points would be from the previous year. And I was using the 250 size as an example. Basically, if the quad is or was produced for the public, then it can ride in the production or stock class. Banshee would be allowed.

As for the stock only class, I would like to see it remain stock width. But I wonder about two things. First and most importantly safety. For the lower skilled classes, it may be fine to remain at stock width, but once the rider is at the Expert Level and above, their limits extend the current stock handling. And with the big jumps and whooped turns at most MX tracks, I wonder if safety will become an issue. The second reason would be the number of riders in the class at the upper level. Again, at the upper skill level, a rider will want a wider, better suspended quad to race. How many non major sponsored riders will have two quads to bring to the track? Not too many. Oh, most (if not all) manufactures do not produce quads with rebuildable shocks. So allowing the revalves on stock shocks is a no go. Either allow aftermarket shocks, or stay stock.

As much as we dislike it, we must play to the manufactures to a point. Until quad racing is as big as bike MX racing, we will not get a "closed course" (i.e. Moto 440) type quad out of the box. Rather I see the manufactures building a quad that appeals to the most people, but can be simply modified for racing. So when the classes are designed, we need to take into account that there are certain levels of mods that people complete to the machines. If you want to build a one off (426 aftermarket frame) quad, then you will have a place to race it in the outlaw class. If you want to take you stock quad to the extreme, then you will be able to race it in the Production class. If you want to only make simple (not into the motor) type mods on a limited budget, then you can run in the stock class.

When thinking about the classes, do not think of the pros. Think of the riders in each class and how it will benefit them. At the track I mainly see three types of riders. Those with bottomless pockets that build the "special" quads, those that modify their stock quads as much as they can, and the finally the racer that is just out there for fun with a few minor mods.

Pretty much right now, there is no class for some one to race a slightly modified (or stock) quad. People are lumped together by motor type. This is wrong. Put all the quads into modified level classes. This way people will know what they will be in a class that is equal to their wallet. And the expense is one of the biggest issues in today's quad racing, right? Even at the local level, it is tough for some one with a lot of skill but a small wallet to compete in the upper skill classes. Most that I know of, simply stop racing because of the cost.

Let's have a dogfight with the manufactures. Allow the quads to duke it out in near stock form, and modified form. See who actually comes out on top. This may drive the manufactures to building better quads. If one quad needs very little mods to be competitive while another needs major work, then it will be obvious. Forget the 2 stroke and 4 stroke separation. Put them together. If the 2 strokes were that much better, maybe some one will take notice and build a 2 stroke closed course racing again. Or maybe it will cause these great new 4 stroke motors to be produced in a quad frame? Either way we the riders win.

As for the sportsman, sure they need a class for the “sporty” but not “high performance” class.
And Rick you mentioned the “Blaster” Class only had a handful of riders? Well, then drop the age limit down to 12, and get rid of the “super modified” mini class. Our Air-cooled class here in New England was pretty big. It had a full gate at every race, and it was mainly from kids ages 12-16. Why? Because parents were buying machines that fit their kids, and now they had a place to race legally. Same with the 90cc for 6-12 ages. This class was larger than most of the other classes. And with kids of the parents racing being able to have something fun to do (other than play in the dirt waiting for dad to race) made for quad racing to be family sport.

End result of the class should not have anything to do with what the pros are currently running or want. It should only be to create an affordable family environment. One that any level (money and skill) racer can enjoy.

 

The only question I might have for the 12-16 age group in the Sportsman or Blaster class would be the age limit's that Dealerships put on buying and riding a quad of this size?

I do agree that 2 strokes and 4 strokes should run against each other!

Rick Frisco
Rem-N-S Productions

 

But that is the problem. We are letting the manufactures and dealers dicate to us, what we should do.

If the ATVA (and AMA) change the rules, people would be flooding the dealerships with requests for mid sized quad for 12-16 year olds. Then the dealers would pressure the manufactures to lighten up on the restrictions. Hopefully this will be about change.

Remember that the age thing is NOT a law. It was a voluntary agreement which was signed by the manufactures back in 1988 and EXPIRED in 1998. Currently the manufactures are just following the same guildelines on a volunteer basis.

We are the consumers, and we have the power. If we were not able to buy quads for kids under the age requirements, then explain to me how I see so many kids riding quads that actually fit them. On the track and on the trail?

Reform needs to take place on a major level, from the racing classes to how we deal with CSPS and manufactures. Trouble is, the AMA board (which defines the rules) has a few manufacture reps on it. Politics at its best.

 

No no no! How can it be competetive if you do not list classes with bassis in motor size? How can a stock 250 Mojave, for example, compete with a stock 400ex?? IT CAN'T! Classes have to have a bassis in the engine department along with age and rider ability(i.e. A,B, & C).

Aftermarket frames and motocycle engines (i.e. YZ426 and CRF450 motors) do NOT belong in the C classes. Also, the Pro-Am classes gives the top ametures the chance to go against the top pros to see if they are ready for the move up. Once more thing, a displacement limit of 380cc should be placed in the Sportsman for 4-strokes. That's just my opinion.
================================================== ===
Here are my updated suggestions.

Pro
Pro Production (OEM motors and frames)
Pro-Am 4-stroke Up to 440cc
Pro-Am 2-stroke Up to 250cc
Pro-Am Open 441 & up 4-strk, 251 & up 2-strk

221cc-250cc 2-stroke A
221cc-250cc 2-stroke B
221cc-250cc 2-stroke C (no motorcycle motors and aftermarket frames allowed)

381cc-440cc 4-stroke A
381cc-440cc 4-stroke B
381cc-440cc 4-stroke C (no motorcycle motors and aftermarket frames allowed)

NOTE: The 381-440 4-stroke classes should be able to run with the 221-250 2-stroke classes

Open A 441 & up 4-strk, 251 & up 2-strk
Open B 441 & up 4-strk, 251 & up 2-strk
Open C 441 & up 4-strk, 251 & up 2-strk (no motorcycle motors and aftermarket frames allowed)

AGE Classes
16-24
+25
+30
+40
Womens
Sportsman 91cc-380cc 4-stroke & 91cc-220cc 2-stroke. (No bike motors and aftermarket frames)
================================================== ===

What do you think Tom?? Doug??

 

Here is how the classes should be:

Pro (265-440)
Pro OEM

Pro-Am (265-440)
Pro-Am OEM (This would replace 4-Stroke Pro-Am)
Pro-Am Open (266 up and 441 up)

250 A (265-440)
4-Stroke A (OEM quads only)
Open A (266 up and 441 up)

250 B (265-440)
4-Stroke B (OEM quads only)
Open B (266 up and 441 up)

250 C (265-440, No aftermarket frames allowed)
4-Stroke C (OEM quads only)
Open C (266 up and 441 up, No aftermarket frames allowed)

Sportsman (245-395, No aftermarket frames allowed)

16-24 Open
+25 Open
+30 Open
+40 Open

Women (265-440)
Women OEM

The Youth classes I will have to think about. But this set up is the best in my opinion.

Lasher- The age classes is where the manufactures can duke it out. Also, at the Nationals there is only so much time we have to race. I dont like it when they have to stagger start races because time is running out.

Having the OEM classes can keep racing for amatuers less costly and able to compete, and at the same time have a class for the people who have yz426 and crf450r dirtbike motors.

 

A Mojave would not compete with a 400ex, unless the Mojave rider wants to run in the other classes. I would classify the Mojave with the Sportsman class.

Why separate the motor classes? In my view, motor size does not make a the best MX racer. I have seen a stock 400ex motor beat a 440ex motor on the track with similar suspension mods. Why? The rider plays a key part. Right now the Raptor is only allowed in the Open class. I think more people would enjoy racing if they could run against the other production machines. If the Raptor motor makes such an advantage on the track over the 400ex, then let it be known on the track. Let it be know to the people buying the quad and to the manufactures.

When making up the classes, we need to look at what currently is available and what may be available in the future to us. I personally think that the classes would be more competitive if quads could run against each other. Right now it is the same quads, with different mods fighting each other.

I have talked to spectators at the track. And they comment on how the 2 stroke class is all 250Rs and the 4 stroke class is all 400exs. They get tired of seeing that. They want to see a Yamaha race a Honda. A 2 stroke oldie but goodie race the new breads. Heck, even I a quad racer gets bored watching the separate classes.

When a Cannondale showed up at the track last year, everyone wanted to see how it would do against the 400ex in the 4 stroke class.

When a Raptor first showed up at the track everyone watch to see how it did in the open class against the Banshees. But did that answer anyone’s questions of what was a better race quad? No. They wanted to see the Raptor against all others.

 

MrP – By limiting the OEM class to the 4 strokes, you are not giving the 2 strokes a chance if one is to be released.

Overall, I will just say this…

By limiting the size of the motor, you are leaving the rules to be changed each year like the bikes. I personally do not see large bore 4 strokes being a dominant factor on a quad MX racing. If it is, then the more power to the company that produced a high revving big bore 4 stroke, which is lightweight.

Now understand I do NOT own a Raptor, nor do I plan to own one. So arguing for a Raptor to race a 400ex on a track is not a personal issue for me. I am going by what I feel would make the sport grow in fan base and in rider base. And I think direct head to head competition between all production quads will do just that.

If we are going to limit anything, limit the mods in the classes, not single out certain quads.

 

Remember, you make classes on what is being made not on what might be made in the future.
the classes that are run at a local race is not the same as at a National, to many riders.
Stock class will work in cross country, but not at a MX race.

 

Lasher- How many Nationals are you going to attend this year?

We cant make classes for future quads, just ones that are in production. Also, if you have two riders that are equal riders and put one on a slow bike and one on a fast bike who do you think will win? Different quads can run with each other. At Macon in my age class there could have been a Raptor, C-dale, 400ex, 250r, Banshee, LT250r, Quadzilla, Tecate, DS650, Blaster, or anything else that wanted to race at the starting line. Hey its good to see that so many people are interested in making this sport better. I love this sport more than I could ever say. I may sound weird for saying that but its true. So I am proud to see people are in here telling their opinions trying to make it better.