Levi, I read your posts and the posts of others and all sorts of warning bells are going off in my head... First I am going to assume you are old enough to legally ride a big bore machine.... that said... let me comment on your replies.

1) you say you want to trail ride, then you say you want speed etc. Well, you have to make a choice here, otherwise a compromise machine may not give you the performance you are looking for. Youare correct, a YFZ450 is great on a race track, but you are taolking one up here... riding two up and it is junk. (See below comment)

2) Riding double. Stupid, pure stupid. Not to mention it is illegal in many states... and should only be considered on machines that are designed for two up riding... but even then, it is still not legal some places. Stats wise, right up there at the top for cause of kids getting killed on ATV's.

3) It sounds like glitz and speed are driving your choices... going to risk it, but may I suggest you temper your adrenaline rush a little and act sanely when riding... I want to see you enjoy many years of riding... at some point in life, if you survive it... you will understand that it is the ride that is important, not the speed in which you take it. Going fast only means that the ride is over sooner...

 

Old Turtle,
Ok here is the thing. I am old enough to ride whatever I want, and when I say ride two up it does not mean that I want to go out jumping bikes and driving as fast as I can, it just means I want to drive my girlfriend around so she can go WEEE. Also I don't know what your definition of trail riding is. For me, it’s riding in areas that are ridden in all of the time so the paths are mostly clean, open, and are similar to an overgrown track. Speed is a driving force for me, but so are many other things. Like I said in my last post, my father and I are buying these. My father has grown up on motorcycles, dirt bikes, ect. In fact I can only remember one time in my entire life that he didn't own a bike. All things considered, I do want to enjoy the ride and that’s why I have not bought the bike yet. I always wait a week or two before I decide to buy something to see if it is really what I want. I'm going to go back and ride both the YFZ and the 660, as well as try to find a z 400 to test.

PS: Don't think this is a bash against your thoughts, I'm just trying to clarify. I appreciate the advice, you bring up allot of things that I need to think about, so keep the thoughts rolling. I am starting to really think about the Z400 from what I can tell it is a very similar bike. It is a smaller engine, but still fast, and it has a smaller price tag. Any advice?

 

Sorry,

That last post was for DragginButt.

 

if you want utility, the 400EX has a little storage container right across from the pipe on the rear frame, useful for smuggling or anything to that matter

 

I gotcha.. no problem... I've had my speed demom days too, and have survived them. I also own a Raptor 660 and a Warrior, which is now rebadged as a Raptor 350... so I understand where you are coming from. The biggest problem I have with the YFZ is the lack of reverse. It is hands down the best race bike, and probably will do just fine on trails too.. I doubt you will get passed on it. But in those few instances where reverse is needed, it is a whole different ballgame. I have a handicap with bad knees, and no hamstrings in one as a result of an ATV accident. I am reminded of it every day as I shuffle along with my cane doing th educk waddle to work... not to mention the pain killers I take on a regular basis too... so when someone starts going speed speed speed... the old experience starts showing it's self. Crashing hurts. And I don't caare how good you are, you will crash it.

Anyway, at least for your dad, make sure he gets something with reverse at all costs... and oh by the way, the old warrior and the Raptor 660 are not far behind on a trail... you don't go full speed all that long any way, so I think either will be able to keep up in just about any condition other than full speed banzai runs...

I personally like my newest addition.. my new Rubicon Utility... I find new stuff to do with it almost daily... Speed isn't the issue here, it is pure muscle that gets work done faster. At my age, anything that makes a chore easier to perform is OK by me. Plus, if you ever change your riding area and spend some time in mud or in the mountains, the 4x4 really comes in handy in rough conditions.

 

Buy a Sport Atv, and a Utility Atv. Problem will be solved. One isn't better than the other. It just depends on what type of riding you will be doing and if you need a quad for strictly fun or for strictly work and fun. I have mine for mostly work but I also got it for occasional trailriding. It works well plowing snow.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

Just to add on the Raptor 660, I take it your machine was stock? You can try using wider front A-arms and a wider rear axle... makes a world of difference in the topheavy feeling you get... I also found that a lot of that queeziness depends greatly on the height of the rider...

Still, even though I have a raptor, I sure get a twinge every time I walk past that 450 at the dealers. If Yamaha decides to put a reverse gear on it someday... I just might own one. Right now, without it... not a chance.

I also looked at the limited edition Warroir/Raptor 350 this past weekend... talk about a sweet looking machine... Yamaha sure did a good job of making that one look a whole lot better. Now if I hadn't just spent a ton of $ for all new bodywork for my old style warrior, I'd be upgrading the body panels to the new style in a heart beat.... but I just can't justify the cost right now....Although I am going to let my older son ride the warrior.. and probably will need them soon..My wife would skin me alive too.

 

Yes I have to admit Yamaha made a killer bike this time. The blue is fairly standard, but the crimson and white or that black is really nice. I was wondering what your initial thoughts would be on a z400. The power is obviously less than the 450, it has the better suspension unlike the 660 and reverse unlike the 450. Also since you ride utilities, what in your opinion is the best sport ute or could make the best sport style ute.

 

the best sport ute out there is by far the prarie/twinpeaks 700 it is fast,agile and when you need it has a lot low end power

 

that i sa hard question to quantify.. trail riding on tight twisties would require one style of machine, while long mountain trails where you can wind it out would take another. That is why you see so many different styples of 4x4, even within the same brand. I can say this however, on a general note, I perfer somethign that you can take in and out of 4 wheel drive mode.. preferably on the fly. Ditto for a locking front diff. Auto lock is even better. Rack sizes on a sporty 4x4 machine is not as critical as if you were going hunting or camping with it. I would expect weight to be less for a sporty model compared to a work horse, however ai also expect the workhorse to handle rough stuff better. Including rock climbing etc.

Honda's Rincon is touted as a sport machine, but I have never ridden one. A lot of people like the Grizzly, but I perfer the Kodiak or the 350 model they have (forget the name) for some reason. I have no experience with the others, but I suspect others can fill you in on them and give you a more educated response. I have always been a Honda and Yamaha man... so I am biased... You need to sit on a lot of them and get a feel for ergonomics, because hopefully, you will be spending a lot of time in the saddle. I hear good things about the Bombardier models too, and a lot of people seem to like the Suzuki and kawasaki's too.. it all will come down to what you feel comfortable with.