Please comment on these 2 ATV's, good and/or bad. I know I'm not exactly conparing apples to apples here. It comes down to these 2 for me because of the local dealers involved, price, and my liking of both machines. Thanks for any input...

 

My Rancher is a peach! Great power, great handling, good suspension....more of a sport quad than a utility...

Everybody who has never ridden one obsesses about the ground clearance. The Honda web site says it has 6.5" of clearance under the rear end, but mine is more like 7.5" (stock)....never been a problem for me. I do however, wish my Rancher was lighter!!!

If you must have IRS, take a look at the new 2009 Rancher 420AT, but it's more money.

 

The Grizzly will have more horsepower, more ground clearance, more suspension travel, bigger tires, a fractionally larger gas tank, and true 4 wheel drive. The Rancher has... I don't know... it must have something about it that's better. It's probably not rack capacity or towing capacity, or else they would publish it. It has a foot shifter if you like those. So it has one thing better, if you're part of that 1 out of 20 people who doesn't like automatics.

 

I think they are both good.... but I think the Rancher handles way better for sporty edged riding... the Grizzly is way more top heavy and likes to 2-wheel a lot easier and with the IRS you get a lot more body roll and push in the corners.....also a foot shifter is a nice thing if you are not adverse to shifting yourself....I would also think the 420 would be a good bit quicker then the 350.

However if you want a smoother and softer ride the IRS and the Grizzly's bigger tires and more un-sprung weight will give you a smoother ride in the rough stuff. It also has a no shifting CVT which some people prefer.

Personally I would go with the Honda for a few reasons...... not the least of which is reliability. More power, better handling, manual shifter........ IMO this would be a tougher choice if it was a Grizzly 550 but in this case I'd pick the Rancher hands down.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: ss97

I think they are both good.... but I think the Rancher handles way better for sporty edged riding... the Grizzly is way more top heavy and likes to 2-wheel a lot easier and with the IRS you get a lot more body roll and push in the corners.....also a foot shifter is a nice thing if you are not adverse to shifting yourself....I would also think the 420 would be a good bit quicker then the 350.



However if you want a smoother and softer ride the IRS and the Grizzly's bigger tires and more un-sprung weight will give you a smoother ride in the rough stuff. It also has a no shifting CVT which some people prefer.



Personally I would go with the Honda for a few reasons...... not the least of which is reliability. More power, better handling, manual shifter........ IMO this would be a tougher choice if it was a Grizzly 550 but in this case I'd pick the Rancher hands down.</end quote></div>

According to the CARB ratings the Rancher has <u>less horsepower than the Grizzly</u>, not <u>more power</u>. All Honda utes are very underpowed compared to any of the other major brands. To know what Honda needs to keep up with everyone else, add 30%. 350 + 30% = 455. It would take about a 455cc Honda to equal anyone else's 350. To know what a Honda's power is equal to get a calculator and type in the cc - 23%. 400 - 23% = 308. Honda's 400 has about the same power as a 308.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: jumbofrank

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: ss97



I think they are both good.... but I think the Rancher handles way better for sporty edged riding... the Grizzly is way more top heavy and likes to 2-wheel a lot easier and with the IRS you get a lot more body roll and push in the corners.....also a foot shifter is a nice thing if you are not adverse to shifting yourself....I would also think the 420 would be a good bit quicker then the 350.







However if you want a smoother and softer ride the IRS and the Grizzly's bigger tires and more un-sprung weight will give you a smoother ride in the rough stuff. It also has a no shifting CVT which some people prefer.







Personally I would go with the Honda for a few reasons...... not the least of which is reliability. More power, better handling, manual shifter........ IMO this would be a tougher choice if it was a Grizzly 550 but in this case I'd pick the Rancher hands down.</end quote></div>



According to the CARB ratings the Rancher has <u>less horsepower than the Grizzly</u>, not <u>more power</u>. All Honda utes are very underpowed compared to any of the other major brands. To know what Honda needs to keep up with everyone else, add 30%. 350 + 30% = 455. It would take about a 455cc Honda to equal anyone else's 350. To know what a Honda's power is equal to get a calculator and type in the cc - 23%. 400 - 23% = 308. Honda's 400 has about the same power as a 308.</end quote></div>

Well first off.... NEVER believe anything that the manufacturers send to CARB or the EPA or any of those....

Auto makers have been lying for years because they have to pay more taxes on each HP they make quite literally........ the more high-performance machines they make, the more element taxes and fees they pay per unit of sale.....

So we end up with a split of philosophy........

We have new companies trying to impress the masses with big numbers, will release the true numbers, highest tested they can get and just pay the taxes because they feel it is advertising dollars well spent......in some cases bigger numbers = bigger sales......

Then on the other side you have older established makers like Honda, with nothing to prove, releasing a "fair" HP rating , probably BHP in most cases ... and saving the money on taxes because they pay per unit and they know they are going to move more units.......Honda is notorious for light numbers.....

With that said, Yamaha like Honda has nothing to prove and is likely to release a lower number on the bigger machines.... but on the smaller ones, not considered high performance giving the best number possible will pump up sales of lower end machines.......Yamaha has a history of boasting the biggest numbers in the old days it got Banshees off the floors in competition for the 250R and Quad Racer.

I'm willing to agree that maybe the Grizzly is more powerful by real numbers, and perhaps in real life too since I've not ridden either back-to-back. But don't trust the numbers sent to the government by manufacturers. They are almost never right.......

You also have to remember HP at the crank is not HP at the ground and the two can sometimes shock you. I've seen machines with more HP at the crank result in a slower less powerful result because the overall design is not as good.... gearing, chassis drag, wheel base, tire size and width, un-sprung weight....etc... and other things can all play a role in how that power is hitting the ground.

I have probably seen a hundred dyno tests that totally conflict with the advertised HP.... in fact I'm not sure I've ever seen any play out exactly......

 

I read that CARB rates everything themselves and it doesn't matter what the manufacturers say. The results are what the government testers come up with in their tests.

If it <u>was</u> all the manufacturers bragging, would all of them REALLY lie through their teeth about having more power, <u>except Honda</u>, because they don't have anything to prove? Or would Honda lie that they have less power than everyone else to save money on "horsepower taxes"?

I think the truth is that Honda has less power, but I don't know why. Could it be because of some old-fashioned technology, or do the engines run at slower RPMs, have small carbs, small valves, or something else? Is it only the utes or are the sport quads the same way? I never see CARB figures for the sport quads. I haven't been inside a Honda engine so I don't have a clue what makes them different from the other 6 big brands. There <u>must</u> be something different.

Honda generators are awesome and I'll buy one if I get the tavel trailer I want. Their lawnmowers are supposed to great too, but most of their ATVs seem mediocre to me.

 

Well as I said the numbers are not the biggest factor either way......

But it is also possible Honda is measuring HP different than CARB.....

My main point was that what has more HP at the crank might not have the most at the wheels for any number of reasons. But I've ridden a Rancher 420, and I find it hard to believe the Grizzly 350 has more power. Is the Grizz 350 different than the 350 in the Raptor? I had always assumed it was the same engine, maybe not......

And FWIW Honda's sport machines are not really underpowered compared to the others.... the 450R is mostly on par with the other 450s..... and the 400ex was never considered slow by any means. And the new 700xx seems to have a bit of go for a heavy machine.

But I would not consider their ATVs mediocre as you say. They have legendary reliability to start with, and first rate ergonomics and handling. For years everyone followed Honda because they had to...... every single sport ATV on the market has something stolen from the 250R, no kidding...... frame geometry to start with....

I think because Honda has not got caught up in the whole "bigger is better" thing that the big power hardcore Ute riders have sort of cast them away. And they do have a history of "if it's not broken don't fix it" to the point of a syndrome with them..... to some people that is a negative because everyone else is pushing the technology....

In some instances Honda is behind the game...... They only have one version of the 450, and an outdated (as some say) 400cc machine.... but again to them (ain't broken, not fixing) so they keep pushing them out as it....

Honda is also slacking in the racer support area.... John Natalie made it well known that Honda's lack of support sent him straight into the loving arms of Can-Am and their impressive assault on ATV racing with a killer new racing program.....

But here's the catch..... the most popular machine on the local tracks, is still usually the 450R..... just like the Honda Rancher is one of the best selling ATVs of all time, just like the Foreman can be seen on every trail at any moment..... etc... etc....

Bottom line is if they were mediocre, they would not be still selling strong and making for one of Honda's most profitable endeavors.

Whether or not they are better than Yamaha will forever be a debate..... Personally Suzuki, Honda and Yamaha have all been very good to me so I would not shy away from any......

 

I don't own the Grizz but I have a 2007 Rancher 4x4 manual and love it! I must be one of the 20 that prefer manual over auto. It's a very reliable machine. That itself is A huge selling point for me. It rides and handles great everywhere. I take it deep in the woods hunting and fishing and never let me down yet. I can go in some pretty tight, rough places. The EFI is great. Never failed me all winter. Even in -20 temps here in Newfoundland it started right away. The gas tank may be smaller but you can go pretty much all day on a full tank. Excellent mileage! It's a great machine and I'm sure you won't be disappointed. I'm pleased with it having no regrets at all.

 

One of my riding budies has a 420 ES and really loves it...I have to say that it is a really great ride if you love to whip it around the trails almost like a sport quad! The problem with this machine comes when he uses it for the general all day trail riding that we do a lot of the time putting a LOT of miles on our machines per weekend! On a recent trip to Snake Creek in Minnesota with their fairly rugged up and down trails, he was really feeling physically shot by the end of the day and was sore for a week afterward! The IRS on our Polaris bikes made this ride a breese for us and I would assume that the Grizzly would result in somewhat similar ride quality...add to this the problems that he seems to have with the deep mud and he has decided to move over to a Sportsman

I guess I am saying it all depends on your riding style and what gets your heart pumping! The Honda and it's manual tranny probably does more with the power it has then any auto tranny bike, it comes out of the hole like a bike with a MUCH bigger motor, and the solid axle is a blast to tear around on fast windy trails, but the ride, constant manual shifting, and significantly limited ground clearance/mud performance really can cut into your enjoyment of this machine in most long/rugged trail conditions
For this type of riding the Grizzly, (or any IRS machine), may be your better choice

side note: I wouldn't have any idea how it works in the auto industry BUT, as I understand it, intentionally UNDERSTATING HP and/or emissions info on CARB documents would be illegal and a fairly big deal for ANY manufacturer that was caught doing it and the rules and regulations for measuring this info is VERY specific as to be consistent accross the specific industy