They didn't change it because there was nobody trying to compete with it and people still kept buying it. It only makes sense that Yamaha keep building them with only cosmetic changes to soak as much money out of the buyers as possible. Anything more than a graphics change would require R&D, tooling and changes to the production line (training, etc.). That takes serious cash flow. Look at how much the Raptor is the same as the Banshee, it wasn't because it works, it's because it was cheaper to use existing parts and ideas instead of being really revolutionary.

Enough said, like I've said before, this is the Bombardier forum, not Yamaha/Banshee forum. If you don't like it leave.

CRT_Leech

 

I can honestly say I was weighing the 2 bikes against each other......Sorry im not sure where this thread went but this is more along the subject. But the FINAL decision for me was that on our private land we have about 500+ acres with the neighbors included and we have built ATV bridges across ravines and REALLY deep creeks. And I did some measuring of the bridges and they are all exactly 50 inches wide........
After that I didnt HAVE much of a choice! LOL I dont want to be on a DS tumbling off the side of a bridge and falling 20 feet down into the bottom of a ravine! Falling off of bridges = BAD

 

Id rather shoot the hills and jumps myself. Woods riding is ok,but not what I prefer. Theres a cool table top about 15 miles from my house. You can get some really good air off it.The ds seems to jump well, Im probably used to it. My machine is pretty much stock except for rear razor tires, nerfbars and renthal handle bars.It serves its purpose quite well.

 

Gentleman,
Come on if you really have to have a machine for the woods go for a 250r.... if you need one for the dunes go for the banshee.....
Why does everybody persist on looking for some new and quicker bike that has more top speed. Listen to the reality of the issue.... Untill the manufactures start coming out with 2 strokes again you can forget about it. Think for a second.... besides the extreme cost for modifing a raptor or DS to match that of say a heavily modified banshee for the dunes, physics shows you that to increase the power in order to develop an 4 stroke ATV to hang with a 2 stroke you have to increase displacement. But in order to do this you loose RPM's you can not rev as quick.... Just look at the 400ex compared to the 440ex or the 250r compared to the 330r. Any time you want more power by increasing cc's in a single cylinder engine you slow down RPM's in the process. This is not to hard to figure out. This is why I think either the DS or Raptor is not the perfect machine. To tell you the truth I think if Kawasaki ever comes out with there supposed 250r that they will rain king. Also As soon as you start trying to compensate increasing displacement by loosing weight by means of using all aluminum parts you start having serious reliability issues.
Thats also why you can not simply put a cbr 600 engine into a 250r frame and let it run. The engine would tear the frame apart. You wouldn't believe how much more difficult it really is to produce an ATV that will hold up to all the different types of stress. You don't see the Yamaha R1 jumping 8 feet in the air do you?
You can either build one for woods, track i.e 250r
or the dunes ...i.e banshee
The Raptor and the DS are no match for either one.... and if you disagree go waste your money.

Sometimes the truth hurts in my case it did. I bought a new 400ex and because of the cost and work it was going to take in order to make it come even close to my buddies modified R, I sold it and bought an R.

Oh... and if your one of those 4 strokers that says well 2 strokes have reliability issues......
"Sounds like a little kid whinning to me."
If thats the case than you either don't ride your 4 stroke vary hard or you just to lazy to do a top end job to a 2 stroke.

To me 4 strokes are good for trail and woods riding and thats about it....

 

Well, 4 strokes don't rev up as fast because they usually have a longer stroke and heavier flywheel and/or different gearing. They also produce their power at lower rpms also. Two strokes put out lots of horsepower, but not as much torque that four strokes do. Torque is your power; horsepower is how fast it is applied. Granted, two strokes produce enough torque for a sport quad at their optimal range of rpms.

The DS revs very fast. I'm shifting from first to second within ten feet, because I have hit the limiter.

Different people like different things. I don't like the vibration, noise, hassle with mixing fuels; expense of rebuilds associated with two strokes and other problems that two strokes have.

There are four stroke motorcycle engines that go over 20,000 rpms and beat the crap out of two stroke engines twice their size. Look into Hondas road racing history and learn.

Also, with all of the "Greenies" fighting to close our riding areas, the pollution of air and noise from two strokes is intrusive also. Especially since most of the two stroke idiots remove or modify their exhaust.

Four stroke riders do it too, but, it's usually not as load or obnoxious.

Kawasaki has already said that they will NOT put out a 250 two stroke ATV. They are making engines available for people to make their own, but not producing one themselves.

The Banshee is a 14-year-old design that has many problems and in my opinion a rattle trap. Everytime I see one, I can usually tell what it is before I see it from the squeaks and rattles that the suspension and chain makes.

Finding a decent 250R is not the easiest thing to do and if you do find one, you usually have to put enough money and time into it, where it would have been easier to just buy a new high performance four stroke.

Both have their advantages and disadvantages. I can kill any dune on the Oregon coast with my DS, so it does exactly what I want to do. It will take out a stock Banshee without a problem and it's comfortable to ride all day. I haven't raced a stock 250R, but I doubt I could find a stock one anymore. From what I have seen, they are not any quicker or faster than a Banshee, so I don't have to worry about them either. It does what I want it to do, so it works for me. I don't want to hear a ring-a-ding-ding all day long or have to rebuild the top end of an ATV every year.

Like I've said before, I'll say it again. If you are not interested in the DS and don't like four strokes, why are you wasting everyone's time posting your drivel in this forum? Go to your Honda forum and tell everyone there how much you like two strokes.

Laters,
CRT_Leech

 

two years ago you would have been laughed at histerically if you would have tried to tell me that i would be riding 4 strokes. Since then we purchased a '99 400ex and a '00 ds650 and this is what i've learned, you can ride a properly built 4 stroke with much less fatigue and effort for longer periods. just look at the '99 baja overall results and this will tell you that the ex is a very well designed machine, if honda would have liquid cooled this quad it would have no flaws in my opinion. The DS is the cadallac of performance quads and is built to last if only mildly modified, I have owned '90 banshee, '86,'87,'88 250r's and I modified every machine and I personally would not trade back to any of these machines. since the purchase of the ds i have rode a buddies 250r that is faster than the ds, but one ride is all I needed to know the ds is much easier and enjoyable to ride. on the same trip to the dunes we rode with a highly modified banshee that i was fortunate enough to ride and to say the least you would have to spend a fortune on a ds to even get close to the power this banshee has, and again it only took one ride to know who was getting the best ride in our group. I rode two strokes from '69 to '99 and enjoyed every ride, from now on i'll be on a 4 stroke. by the way the shee rider had at least 15 to 20hp on all the quads in our group and we waited on him the whole ride, go figure. enjoy what ya got, cause it's all good, some are just better.

 

The DS was made for the dunes! I'm in the process of setting it up a little better for sand. I will be buying the Alba supercharger which will smoke many, many modified banshees in a sand drag. It does not cost a fortune and should be able to put out 75HP at the rear wheels on race gas. Just the Ron Woods STG 1 kit will beat a lot of banshees in a medium length sand drag.

 

Well, it seems that you guys have good points to a lot of what your saying. I think that with time the 4 stroke will get better, more reliable and faster, but I guess its my environment and partly the crowd I hang out with, but as far as my experiences go..... all the guys I ride with (some being former top national's riders) prefer 2 strokes. They are extrmely reliable as far as riding goes plus you know that when a 2 strokes breakes 9 times out of 10 you know it's going to be only one of a couple of things. That was another thing that made me nervous about modifying my 400ex. Try to break a 4 stroke engine apart and fix it and then go riding the same day, compared to do the same thing on a 250r cylinder....I think not! There are way to many parts i.e valves to deal with ona four stroke. Do you understand now what I am saying about reliability? More than likely if something pops on a 4 stroke engine you better pack it up and take her to the shop..... however I have practically an arsonal of parts for my 2 stroke engine. There just aren't that many parts to it. 2 strokes are extremly easy to fix and if you run with an extreme crowd like myself, you are going to have a tough time keeping up unless you have a hell..of..a..lot of money invested into your machine. Oh, and by the way I keep wondering how your going to accomplish this on a DS or any 4 stroke for that matter... You take $10k and I'll take $10k you buy your DS and use the money left over for upgrading it any way you deem, I'll do the same, but lets say lets be a little fair I'll let you pick the machine for it's environment. For example lets say you want me to buy a machine for the dunes ..... a banshee used and then spend the rest of the money on mods up to $10k. Or lets say you pick the R for the MX track or woods. I can still get nationals pro R used for around 10k and there is know way your going to be able to do the same with a Bombardier... or a Raptor or a 400ex. I do question the 400ex though it being so close to the R set-up, it would probably be the closest. But you canm forget about everything else..... I suppose all the national events are rigged with top winning riders 90% of the time riding R's. Maybe with the exception of the 400exs in the woods competitions. By do believe the R's are still dominating.



Do I really need to go on??
It's obvious why the 2 stroke has dominated the ATV world from day one...

You have a nice day now.....

 

Yup. I also rode two strokes for about 15 years. I switched to four strokes for all of the mentioned reasons.

Yes, most definitely, ride and enjoy what you got, but, stop bitching about what you don't have! I could care less what a Banshee owner thinks of my DS650 or my 350X or whatever else I ride. I'm not going into the Yamaha/Raptor forum and telling them how screwed they got or what a piece of crap their machine is, so why do the Yamaha, Raptor, Banshee and 400EX owners have to do this?

I'm sure they'll probably be doing the same thing when the Canondale comes out.

Laters,
CRT_Leech

 

two strokes and four strokes are both very reliable when properly maintained, I personally was getting 3+ years out of a top end on my '87 250R. the r was ported with a '89 cr250 head gasket bringing the compression to 175psi, fmf hand rolled torque pipe, fmf reeds and cage, fox shocks up front and on the back eibach spring and shock revalved by lindsey machine in slc. It sounds to me like you have a maintenance problem or your machine has been over modified if you are having to do top ends all the time, out of the three r's we owned none of them ever left us stranded or in a emergency rebuild situation. the 250r is a extremely reliable machine if properly maintained and properly modified. That said anyone that knows internal combustion engines knows 4stroke's are at the top for long term reliability, agian if properly maintained and properly modified. I agree with ctrleech, you need to go to your own forum instead of coming to ours to talk smack in ours. One thing on the original topic, seen, heard and sat on the rapter today and have to say that it looks and feels like an awesome quad, it will rock side to side a little easier than our ex which leads me to beleive that it will need to be widened for all but woods riding, and the shocks look tiny compared to the ds also. with dealer setup and all it is the same price as i paid for the ds around $6800. With only aftermarket shocks and a arms plus pipe rapter owners will be out close to 9 grand for the thing to be competetive in the desert scene.