At present couple concerns I have with the outlander. My GF has an 05 400 XT. All in all it is fun, comfortable machine BUT it does have a terribly annoying whine starting about 29-30 mph. Also I use <U>my</U> machine for alot of work (plowing, pulling trees) it is nice having R & L close together rather than having a H stuck in the middle of them. It is a blast in the mud though, does feel lighter. Guess when the time comes will just have to stick my butt on one and try it. I am not stuck on one brand but go with whichever has the features I am looking for. About only thing have not owned at one time is a suzuki so far. Last but not least Snickers are .75$ in machine at work, .69$ at c-store, if lucky can catch on sale 3 for a $.

 

The whine is the cv if you ride one for awhile you get use to it.

 

your point? i already said the yawnaha motors are better than the series 3 rotax, and the way BRP and Yamaha approach there sled designs and there ATV designs are complete opposite, in sleds Yamaha is the heavy tank with good motors that'll stand up to probably quite a bit of abuse but not nearly as much fun to ride, whereas ski-doo is making the lightweights that can't handle the abuse nearly as well, now compare that to ATV's, the BRP DS650 are heavyweights compared to Yamahabut they stand up to the abuse but they gave them great suspension and a motor, the Yamaha YFZ450 and 660Raptor are very lightweight but can't take the abuse, and they gave them decent suspensions with quick motors, you just can't compare they way BRP and Yamaha design snowmobiles vs. atvs, its like apples to oranges

 

Here we go. It's not the rotax engine that eats the rings up!!! The rings were JUNK before they were even in the engine!!! The supplier (which is not rotax) had a bad batch of rings go through the engines. It was a VERY LARGE batch of bad rings and there was no way to tell which ones were bad and which ones were good until they tried them. So don't blame that on rotax or skidoo. Maybe it took a couple years to circulate them out. But to this very date, they will still warranty EVERY SINGLE BAD RING!!! See if another mfg. will keep doing it for years, I bet they won't!

Have you ever seen anything that has come out in any type of market that didn't have issues. I don't care if it had 100 years of R&D, it wont' be perfect. It constantly gets changed over the years. To have a spark plug issue and nothing else, that's pretty god damn impressive considering what they did. It's a 1000cc 2 stroke that gets better gas mileage than the 800s. Gobs of more power and it stays cool. Thats a hell of an accomplishment, hands down! It's so damn efficient and stays so cool that it doesn't even have a chain tensioner on it. It's that damn good! and you bitch about plugs? WTF!

You yamaha guys think you have it so nice, until you get smoked in a straight line by a mach, or outhandled in the woods by a REV X. If yammy's are soo good, why are their sales lacking so bad. Dont' get me wrong, they do have a nice line of 4 stroke products...but they are not THAT nice.

 

I do agree w/ the apples to oranges things. Skidoo and Bombardier ATV are two different engineering staffs and 2 different facilities. The only similarities they have is there Sales Teams

 

Actually it was the material on the rings that was flaking but part of the root cause was the exhaust port design. That's why last year they changed the ring material and the jugs. This is part of the price you pay to squeeze out more and more HP. The Cat's (sleds) are known for their high HP in each class but they do not last as long between rebuilds. Common sense.

Also on the new Outlander. Here is a quote from BRP's web site;

"BRP Shifts Focus to ATV Enthusiasts for 2006

Valcourt, Québec, June 6, 2005 - The 2006 model year marks the beginning of a major transformation to Bombardier Recreational Products Inc. (BRP) approach to the All-Terrain Vehicle (ATV) market. BRP makes a dramatic shift in focus to ATV enthusiasts and will continue to build Bombardier* ATVs with innovative capability and features, but also offer a higher level of handling, power and performance than competitors. "

BRP intends to design ATV's for the trail rider. So if you want a work vehicle go somewhere else or at least don't complain that it's not both a great trail machine and a work vehicle because it's not intended to be.

 

lilnotts,

You hit the nail on the head. I totally agree with your opinion on how Yamaha, Bomb, and Ski Doo approach building their different products. The only question I have is about Raptors and YFZs not taking the abuse. The newer Raptors and especially the YFZs have proven pretty tough haven't they? There are not very many around here, so that is why I ask.

dooski7c,

I HATE Yamaha's sled lineup. I am a mountain rider, but not a pure hill climber, so Yamaha makes nothing that even remotely interests me. Cat and Doo are the only companies that make an all around mountain sled worth owning IMHO. Polaris used to and the new 600 RMK might prove decent, we will see. Polaris dropped the ball with the 700 and 900 RMKs. If I wanted a 600 pound tank that would out climb anything then Yamaha is the way to go. NOTHING compares to a RX-1 with a turbo and the Apex is only going to climb better. My only disagreement with you is your repeated statement that Bomb has superior R&D to every other company making ATVs or sleds. I don't care if Rotax made the rings or not, that is not the point. The point is they used them and kept using them. How long did it take for them to even ADMIT there was a problem and start warrantying them? A couple years. Maybe they should have switched ring suppliers right away and saved themselves and their customers a bunch of time and money. The 1000 SDI is without a doubt one hell of an impressive motor.......when it runs right. I guarantee their is a whole lot of angry Summit and Mach owners that will argue it takes more than a simple spark plug change to fix all the problems they have had. I know ALL manufactures have their problems, especially with first year products. Just don't sit there and claim that Bomb's R&D is so superior to everyone elses and that they never have problems. I would bet that aside from the Rincon (cough, junk), that statistically Honda's reliability and longevity record is better than Bomb's or Yamaha's.

 

the only experience i've had with raptors are an 01 and a 02, and a first year YFZ(04?), all of them are huge POS, the YFZ threw a crank i believe, the raptors have taking quite a beating but now neither of them run that well, theres a lot of ds's out there that have taken just as much abuse of the 2 raptors(actually i should say slow raptors) and those ds's still run great, am i sayin all raptor's and YFZ's are junk like the ones i've ridden and raced, but i did see them wen they were new and they never impressed me enough for me to want to sell my ds, actually when i wanted a new quad I wanted to raptor because of all the mags i read(i know, stupid me, but i'm smarter now) and my bro kept tellin me how much nicer the ds was, i never believed him until I finally got to ride one, i've never looked back since, well i have but thats just to see the slow yamahas behind me [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

 

Quote right from ATV Connection;

"The 2006 model year is the beginning of a major transformation for Bombardier Recreational Products (BRP). BRP’s shift is to fun, excitement, better features, and a higher level of power and performance. Gone is the Traxster and Quest, even though these two quads were well designed and fit their purpose, they are not the fun and excitement BRP is looking for. Enter the new era, 3 models of the 90CC, improvements on the Rally and the Outlander 400, DS650X, and enter the Outlander 800. A true 800CC, V-twin, 62HP, 52lbs. torque true sport 4X4 machine. Talk about fun and excitement! Just wait until you throw your leg over this beast. "

Not your grandpas utility quad.

 

An ATV mag said the "BOMB" as well as all their Atv's Are made in TAIWAN!!!????. 10k$ for a rubber dog Sh#! manufacturing country produced wheeler. You can have it.