Hello everyone. Just thought i'd blow some steam about this subject. I recently read the Dirtwheel's artical on the Ds vs. Raptor shootout, and i have to say that DW did a pretty fair shootout when it came to giving the Ds credit where it was needed. And the little thing at the end "Not that Ds owners have anything to be sorry about....". But now i just read some things in the Yamaha Forum about the New shootout and i hear they just totally Cut all over the Ds giving it hardly any credit at all. I say i could care less which "shootout Tester" beats the other on which machine...its NOT me riding so i dont really care if Rider A on the raptor Beats Rider B on the Ds. Sure they point out how the Ds is heavy, but its not like your CARRYING it around, so why does it matter all that much? And Sure Its WIDE, but why would somone buy the Ds if they Wanted a Narrow Fourwheeler?! They say the Ds Gets beat in a drag race..well I'll tell you what, a fourwheeler that is 38hp and only weighs an even 390 is alot lighter then a fourwheeler that is about 40hp that is 480lbs. That 90lbs is a big differnce, and the raptor's horsepower to weight ratio is alot better, so you'd think the raptor would BLOW away the ds, but once again, the ds holds it's own! Sure the Raptor is lighter to it may be a better jumper...to the avg rider that is use to light quads...now what if i was a person use to the heavy j umper quads, thenn wouldnt i be in the right to say the raptor is to light to jump safley? Just my opoinion guys, dont jump all over me

 

I agree that the shootout was pretty fair.The DS holds its own very well against the raptor,and the DS is in a very mild state of tune compared to the raptor.Unfortunately there will always be people whom insist on running their mouths and knocking other peoples quad.That is just the nature of narrow minded people.I enjoy riding with everyone no matter there choice of machine just as long as we are there to have a good time and promote the greatest sport on earth offroading
Bearman

 

If that story was true,how come the same magazine says that the Raptor and the Banshee both took turns winning drag races.The Raptor would win, if it got the hole shot.The same magazine says that a DS will beat a Banshee in a drag race and on top.HUMMMMMM.Whats up with that?????????

 

Clif i know what you mean. I own a Ds and i love it, and i agree that the magazines seem like they cannot get there crap straight about what they think about indevidual fourwheelers. When the Ds first came out, the loved it and praised it. Now its "to heavy" and to wide. I belive (my opinion) the magazines are bias on the differnt companies because of indorsment..i mean look on every other page, its a yamaha addds' or honda adds...and about 2 out of all the pages are indorcing Bombadier. WHy would the fourwheeler magazines want to upset yamaha or honda and have them pull out of there magazine, and then there goes half of the profit/readers. I'd be willing to race any raptor, win or lose, or even any banshees..400ex's....and so on. All those magazines are is One rider Beating another (inexperience rider)..(when i say inexperienced i mean inexperience in terms of riding the ds, you dont just GEt off a 400ex and jump on a Ds and Ride it like a 400, its completly differnt, requires a differnt riding style that takes TIME to get use to). I learned how to ride my ds as fast as i can take it and now every other machien feel's so much differnt..small. Now what i want to know is in the magazines when Test rider A on the raptor beats Test rider B on the ds, then how is that any differnt from me racing a buddy that has a raptor? The only differnce is that they print it in a magazine. ANd everyone assumes that the Raptor is Clearly Superior to the ds, and that right there is bull crap. Like i said ..I'd be willing to race with any raptor at any time..not saying i'd win or lose. I live in wisconsin. I'd be willing to drive 200 miles to ride with somone that will mmeet me somewhere.

What are some other opinions on this subject?

 

I too thought the shootout was pretty fair, I had not read it till this weekend and based off others comments I thought they had done a number on the DS. But was pleasantly surprised at how objective they were. Each of these bikes were designed with specific strengths,and weakness and the DS rules at the Dunes, that's why I bought one. The other quads are great machines, If the DS was not available I would own one of the others.
According to article (and if my memory serves me well) the power to weight ratio is actually surprisingly close.
Raptor 400lbs Dry@38hp , thats 10.52lbs for every pony.
DS650 460lbs Dry@43hp , thats 10.69lbs for every pony
that amazingly close, and these are the shoot outs numbers not mine. Don't vent too hard we know we have killer quads!!!!
take it easy

 

Well, the DS was beating the Banshee consistantly until the full color, full page ads for the Raptor starting showing up on the back cover of the magazines, so go figure.....

Laters,
CRT_Leech

 

It's funny how the Raptor has gained anywhere from 10 to 30 pounds according to what articles you read! That definately puts the power to weight ratio closer. The main advantage the Raptor has is getting more height off of jumps and when you go dancing with trees.

Laters,
CRT_Leech

 

I read the shootout and thought it was fair towards the ds all in all. The raptor is a great quad and yamaha deserves credit for finally producing a new performance machine, lord only knows their '80's technology was way outdated in the handling and maintenance dept. My personel opinion on the raptor is not as great as dw gives it credit for though. I feel it is a bit on the narrow side and could get over it's balance point fairly easy in a two wheeling situation. The engine did not do so hot in the power to weight dept., the mighty rotax has only 4 valves and less cc's and the raptor has the(so they say) superior 5 valves and two carbs and more cc's and yet the ds clearly generates more hp. In the aug. dw it quotes factory test riders saying the raptor SMOKES banshees, ds's and ex's in any drag, now low and behold the heavy ds is only 2 hundreths of a second behind in a '300ft drag. Looks like they might have over hyped the raptor a wee bit. The first thing I did to my ds was swap rear tires (ohtsu's from our '99 400ex) and it made a huge difference in traction in the sand and on the trail, if the ds is that close in a drag all that is needed is a set of ohtsu's or the same dunlops the raptor is wearing and that two hundreth of a second would quickly change. The raptor could be a great dune quad with wider a-arms and axle but out of the box the ds is the best on the market for all around dune miester.

 

First let me say that the DS is a GREAT quad from what I gather, but how do you suppose that it is in a higher state of tune than the DS?

The compression is higher on the DS. Also, the DS's engine lacks some of low end power and trades it off for more horses on top, so that leads one to believe that the camshafts have a hotter profile than the Raptor as well.

It's true, the Raptor has the ability to spin up to high RPM, but that is just a benefit of it's ability to breath, not because it's in a "high state of tune".

I'm certainly not an expert, so if I've missed something here, please point it out.

Again, I'm not getting into a "mine is better than yours" argument here, I'm just wanting to talk tech for a moment.

 

They are fair reviews, But consider this what we we be talking about if there wasnt small or large differences in the quads? these forums would be generating about as much traffic as the Suzuki forums right now. The advantage that is the Raptors is that its an Answer to the DS so they are trying to beat it where they can. Some areas they definately succeeded and some areas they matched and in some areas they lag. Thats how it goes. If you want to keep up the Mine is bigger and badder than yours fine. Its good for your egos. Because ever since about 1990 and until 99 there was not any new to talk about except the scrambler and the 300Ex. Which are NOT High performance machines. To Each His Own, Mine just happened to be a Yamaha.