BRP has stooped to an all time low
Dec 1, 2005 | 08:44 PM
#41
Extreme Pro Rider
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,940
Likes: 0
BRP has stooped to an all time low
It is hard for me to believe how negative some of you are. Life is way too short to worry so much about this stuff......
I hire electricians all the time. The ones that help me to be the most competative and offer the best quality and service are the small, non-union shops. The owner is a journeyman but he probably saves me over a grand per house. For the union shops to compete they would have to agree to lower wages for their guys. They have to stick to government contracts and large scale stuff because people like me (who actually control cost unlike the government) are going to buy smart. My #1 electrician makes 3 times what he did as a good ol' union boy....... but he has to work 80 hrs per week sometimes to do it, and he enjoys it.
I work more than 80 hrs per week when I have a couple of house deadlines at the same time. Other times I take a week and go play if schedule allows. I don't wish I had a 40 hour work week. If I did I would have to work every week to make ends meet!
The bottom line is, everyone has the opportunity to do something great in America. We are not limited like so many countries. There are an infinite number of things that can be done that are not being done now and they are things people will pay for. I don't sweep out my own houses, I hire a college kid that needs the money to do that, I then spend more time fine tuning my accounting or marketing plans that have been neglected. When we as American let another company assemble our shoes because they need the money, our workers can then spend more time figuring out if there is a better way to make them or if there is an alternative to them.
Cheer up! It isn't near as bad out there as you think. If Americans or Canadians get laid off (can I say that?) they will find something different to do that is gainful. You would if you got laid off.
Big Smile!!! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
I hire electricians all the time. The ones that help me to be the most competative and offer the best quality and service are the small, non-union shops. The owner is a journeyman but he probably saves me over a grand per house. For the union shops to compete they would have to agree to lower wages for their guys. They have to stick to government contracts and large scale stuff because people like me (who actually control cost unlike the government) are going to buy smart. My #1 electrician makes 3 times what he did as a good ol' union boy....... but he has to work 80 hrs per week sometimes to do it, and he enjoys it.
I work more than 80 hrs per week when I have a couple of house deadlines at the same time. Other times I take a week and go play if schedule allows. I don't wish I had a 40 hour work week. If I did I would have to work every week to make ends meet!
The bottom line is, everyone has the opportunity to do something great in America. We are not limited like so many countries. There are an infinite number of things that can be done that are not being done now and they are things people will pay for. I don't sweep out my own houses, I hire a college kid that needs the money to do that, I then spend more time fine tuning my accounting or marketing plans that have been neglected. When we as American let another company assemble our shoes because they need the money, our workers can then spend more time figuring out if there is a better way to make them or if there is an alternative to them.
Cheer up! It isn't near as bad out there as you think. If Americans or Canadians get laid off (can I say that?) they will find something different to do that is gainful. You would if you got laid off.
Big Smile!!! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
Dec 1, 2005 | 09:06 PM
#42
Pro Rider
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 242
Likes: 0
BRP has stooped to an all time low
Sorry but id have to call your bluff in this. We have a residental scale that is lower than industrial and comerical scale. We dont HAVE to do only gov. jobs because of the wages. In parts of the country where the union is stronger everything goes union.I work 6 months out of the year and take off the other 6 to do what i want, and i still make an excellant living. Not including my retirement package.
The way our contract works is if the job is set up on 5-8 hour days then everything over 8 hours is time and a half. sat is time and sun. is double , even if you miss a straight time day you still get you overtime. Not only does the pay increase, but the retirement does also. My retirement is $5.00 an hour for every hour i work, the contractor has to pay this, it is in ou rcontract. I have a buisness agent yhat handles all my affairs or grievances for me, and he is just a phone call away. Why would your #1 electrician choose to loose all of his ibew benefits to work rat, and 80 hours a week to boot? Dont make ssense to me. The ibew has halls all over the country and all i have to do is have my ba call aand if they have work, then i have a job. Sorry but i have to call your bluff on your elestrician buddy, ask him how things work with the brotherhood.
Sorry for hi jacking your thread mudnuri
later
Chiknhawk
The way our contract works is if the job is set up on 5-8 hour days then everything over 8 hours is time and a half. sat is time and sun. is double , even if you miss a straight time day you still get you overtime. Not only does the pay increase, but the retirement does also. My retirement is $5.00 an hour for every hour i work, the contractor has to pay this, it is in ou rcontract. I have a buisness agent yhat handles all my affairs or grievances for me, and he is just a phone call away. Why would your #1 electrician choose to loose all of his ibew benefits to work rat, and 80 hours a week to boot? Dont make ssense to me. The ibew has halls all over the country and all i have to do is have my ba call aand if they have work, then i have a job. Sorry but i have to call your bluff on your elestrician buddy, ask him how things work with the brotherhood.
Sorry for hi jacking your thread mudnuri
later
Chiknhawk
Dec 1, 2005 | 09:32 PM
#43
Extreme Pro Rider
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,940
Likes: 0
BRP has stooped to an all time low
At residential rate in my region the guys I work with are making about $30 per hr plus or minus + benefits. That is not the kind of dollar amounts we call making money anymore. That is a little over $60k at 173 hrs per week. One of my past electricians would pull from the union pool from time to time but only in emergencies. He preferred to have his own employee's that he could push on production without a fight and could count on them daily to know his program.
It is true that most of the shops in my area are non union and the ones that are, stick to the bigger contracts. I think it might have something to do with the fact that the number of non-union shops are growing and are appealing to small businesses like mine. Watch the trend of elections. Unions are losing their power and as a result some will not make as much as they did working for the union, others will make more but as unions become less and less of a factor, people will be making wages more in line with what they produce. For the overall economy, that is a very good thing.
My electrician is a good guy. He makes alot of money, more than I do but he is like me in that there is something to be said for autonomy and the knowledge that your destiny lies in your own hands in regard to your career. Not with a bunch of union nagotiators and agents.
I am glad things are going well for you. BTW, I talked to Mudnuri, he actually said he liked the lively discussion. I think that was cool on his part because it has trailed just a bit. BTW, did you know Bombardiers are going to be built down in Mexico now?!??[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
It is true that most of the shops in my area are non union and the ones that are, stick to the bigger contracts. I think it might have something to do with the fact that the number of non-union shops are growing and are appealing to small businesses like mine. Watch the trend of elections. Unions are losing their power and as a result some will not make as much as they did working for the union, others will make more but as unions become less and less of a factor, people will be making wages more in line with what they produce. For the overall economy, that is a very good thing.
My electrician is a good guy. He makes alot of money, more than I do but he is like me in that there is something to be said for autonomy and the knowledge that your destiny lies in your own hands in regard to your career. Not with a bunch of union nagotiators and agents.
I am glad things are going well for you. BTW, I talked to Mudnuri, he actually said he liked the lively discussion. I think that was cool on his part because it has trailed just a bit. BTW, did you know Bombardiers are going to be built down in Mexico now?!??[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
Dec 1, 2005 | 10:44 PM
#45
Range Rover
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
BRP has stooped to an all time low
Originally posted by: learnem
yeah....sure.......... that is why i had to take my toy hauler back to the dealership for warranty work on the same thing 4 freekin times... do a better job my A$$
Originally posted by: CaRider67
The Mexican worker will work harder for less money and probably do a better job.
The Mexican worker will work harder for less money and probably do a better job.
Dec 1, 2005 | 10:48 PM
#46
Extreme Pro Rider
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,859
Likes: 1
BRP has stooped to an all time low
i'm not speaking of my own opinions here, but rather spewing out facts about the american people as a whole, in general....and most of this has already been mentioned but just backing it up...
the american public is tired of spending too much money for stuff that was created by high dollar labor, so the american public in general is pushing jobs to mexico, as well as any other place that has lower labor costs. companies are only moving to mexico because we the people are begging them to do it. and we are begging them by exersizing the practice of going for the cheaper items as often as possible - america just loves a bargain.
a $30 an hour union auto worker with no education or skilled trade at all might be willing to pay high dollar to the local small businesses and avoid the big chains and discount stores like walmart and all its counterparts (although most do not), but the average joe that brings in a combined income between him and his wife of $35K a year before daycare costs for the kid can't really afford to go anywhere but wally world anymore.
people keep slamming mexico because supposedly its jobs taken away from the US, but isn't the same true for any imported item, regardless of country? if you're against jobs going to mexico, and its because you're so pro american, then that means you are against all imported goods from the entire world, so you better go check yourself and step back a little, and you might just find that there is a little bit of hipocracy lingering around in the closet.
the american public is tired of spending too much money for stuff that was created by high dollar labor, so the american public in general is pushing jobs to mexico, as well as any other place that has lower labor costs. companies are only moving to mexico because we the people are begging them to do it. and we are begging them by exersizing the practice of going for the cheaper items as often as possible - america just loves a bargain.
a $30 an hour union auto worker with no education or skilled trade at all might be willing to pay high dollar to the local small businesses and avoid the big chains and discount stores like walmart and all its counterparts (although most do not), but the average joe that brings in a combined income between him and his wife of $35K a year before daycare costs for the kid can't really afford to go anywhere but wally world anymore.
people keep slamming mexico because supposedly its jobs taken away from the US, but isn't the same true for any imported item, regardless of country? if you're against jobs going to mexico, and its because you're so pro american, then that means you are against all imported goods from the entire world, so you better go check yourself and step back a little, and you might just find that there is a little bit of hipocracy lingering around in the closet.
Dec 1, 2005 | 11:00 PM
#47
Extreme Pro Rider
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,940
Likes: 0
BRP has stooped to an all time low
I just got a call from one of the exec's at BRP. After reading this thread, they have decided to mend their ways and not lay off all those people to send their production plant to Mexico. Wow! All those people down South were counting on those jobs.............. Now they are out of work again. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
Dec 2, 2005 | 11:11 AM
#49
Extreme Pro Rider
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,858
Likes: 0
BRP has stooped to an all time low
Originally posted by: Hightower
i'm not speaking of my own opinions here, but rather spewing out facts about the american people as a whole, in general....and most of this has already been mentioned but just backing it up...
the american public is tired of spending too much money for stuff that was created by high dollar labor, so the american public in general is pushing jobs to mexico, as well as any other place that has lower labor costs. companies are only moving to mexico because we the people are begging them to do it. and we are begging them by exersizing the practice of going for the cheaper items as often as possible - america just loves a bargain.
a $30 an hour union auto worker with no education or skilled trade at all might be willing to pay high dollar to the local small businesses and avoid the big chains and discount stores like walmart and all its counterparts (although most do not), but the average joe that brings in a combined income between him and his wife of $35K a year before daycare costs for the kid can't really afford to go anywhere but wally world anymore.
people keep slamming mexico because supposedly its jobs taken away from the US, but isn't the same true for any imported item, regardless of country? if you're against jobs going to mexico, and its because you're so pro american, then that means you are against all imported goods from the entire world, so you better go check yourself and step back a little, and you might just find that there is a little bit of hipocracy lingering around in the closet.
i'm not speaking of my own opinions here, but rather spewing out facts about the american people as a whole, in general....and most of this has already been mentioned but just backing it up...
the american public is tired of spending too much money for stuff that was created by high dollar labor, so the american public in general is pushing jobs to mexico, as well as any other place that has lower labor costs. companies are only moving to mexico because we the people are begging them to do it. and we are begging them by exersizing the practice of going for the cheaper items as often as possible - america just loves a bargain.
a $30 an hour union auto worker with no education or skilled trade at all might be willing to pay high dollar to the local small businesses and avoid the big chains and discount stores like walmart and all its counterparts (although most do not), but the average joe that brings in a combined income between him and his wife of $35K a year before daycare costs for the kid can't really afford to go anywhere but wally world anymore.
people keep slamming mexico because supposedly its jobs taken away from the US, but isn't the same true for any imported item, regardless of country? if you're against jobs going to mexico, and its because you're so pro american, then that means you are against all imported goods from the entire world, so you better go check yourself and step back a little, and you might just find that there is a little bit of hipocracy lingering around in the closet.
Thats what I've been wanting to say all along, just couldn't put it into words like you did, THANKS!
****note*** the 40 hours work week was invented by Henry Ford in 1904 , When he also started the first Manufacturing Assembly Plant making Model T's.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] The History Channel is a great thing![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
Labor Unions started back in the 30's when the Immigrant workers were being taken advantage of, and not treated very fairly(alot like todays Mexican immigrant workers), But now the Union themselves have turned into their own big business,and now you have the manufacturing companies with the Products and the Union with the Work force... Its a constant battle tug-and -pull over wages and production costs. What the Unions don't realize is they are Negotiating themselves right out of thier jobs!! The trend these big manufacture's are taking is to send assembly to 3rd world countries, to get around the Unions and the American lawyers. So I expect to see ALLOT more of these lay-offs of American Union workers[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif[/img] I feel terrible for the individual worker, but if your riding in a BIG BOAT and the captian hits an IceBerg, well the whole boat goes down.
Look on the bright side... After all of the Manufacturing goes to Mexico, we won't have to worry about the Illegals crossing the border.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img] Heck, they may try and keep us out[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]
Bigger.
Dec 2, 2005 | 01:51 PM
#50
Pro Rider
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 493
Likes: 1
From: West Paducah,Ky (GOD'S COUNTRY)
BRP has stooped to an all time low
Check these links out.
http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000403070124/
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051122/ap_on_bi_ge/gm_41
This is just one example why! Unions are fighting every day. The companies exec and profit shareholders enjoy are because of the workers sacrifices and labor. Yes, UNIONS are for the workers. Ever look up the word UNION and see what the meaning is. CEO'c,COOPERATE LAWYERS,SHAREHOLDERS PROFITS ARE just eactly the reason/same as how workers were treated in the 1900's just a whole lot worse. Unions are working the same trying to protect the workers rights. You are right about its a constant tug-and -pull over wages and production costs. If you think its ok and do not blame the companies for pulling out of AMERICA and taking the jobs south and elsewhere how would you like to pull out of AMERICA and go with the jobs and work in the conditions they do. Yes, the CEO's are helping keep those conditions in Mexico and elsewhere so sad. Guess the UNIONS need to go SOUTH too! Be exactly the same there as starting in the 1900's protecting/fighting for workers! (HISTORY CHANNEL) (:> Unions are just trying to keep up with the big dogs.
http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000403070124/
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051122/ap_on_bi_ge/gm_41
This is just one example why! Unions are fighting every day. The companies exec and profit shareholders enjoy are because of the workers sacrifices and labor. Yes, UNIONS are for the workers. Ever look up the word UNION and see what the meaning is. CEO'c,COOPERATE LAWYERS,SHAREHOLDERS PROFITS ARE just eactly the reason/same as how workers were treated in the 1900's just a whole lot worse. Unions are working the same trying to protect the workers rights. You are right about its a constant tug-and -pull over wages and production costs. If you think its ok and do not blame the companies for pulling out of AMERICA and taking the jobs south and elsewhere how would you like to pull out of AMERICA and go with the jobs and work in the conditions they do. Yes, the CEO's are helping keep those conditions in Mexico and elsewhere so sad. Guess the UNIONS need to go SOUTH too! Be exactly the same there as starting in the 1900's protecting/fighting for workers! (HISTORY CHANNEL) (:> Unions are just trying to keep up with the big dogs.
Originally posted by: biggerisbetter
Thats what I've been wanting to say all along, just couldn't put it into words like you did, THANKS!
****note*** the 40 hours work week was invented by Henry Ford in 1904 , When he also started the first Manufacturing Assembly Plant making Model T's.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] The History Channel is a great thing![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
Labor Unions started back in the 30's when the Immigrant workers were being taken advantage of, and not treated very fairly(alot like todays Mexican immigrant workers), But now the Union themselves have turned into their own big business,and now you have the manufacturing companies with the Products and the Union with the Work force... Its a constant battle tug-and -pull over wages and production costs. What the Unions don't realize is they are Negotiating themselves right out of thier jobs!! The trend these big manufacture's are taking is to send assembly to 3rd world countries, to get around the Unions and the American lawyers. So I expect to see ALLOT more of these lay-offs of American Union workers[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif[/img] I feel terrible for the individual worker, but if your riding in a BIG BOAT and the captian hits an IceBerg, well the whole boat goes down.
Look on the bright side... After all of the Manufacturing goes to Mexico, we won't have to worry about the Illegals crossing the border.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img] Heck, they may try and keep us out[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]
Bigger.
Originally posted by: Hightower
i'm not speaking of my own opinions here, but rather spewing out facts about the american people as a whole, in general....and most of this has already been mentioned but just backing it up...
the american public is tired of spending too much money for stuff that was created by high dollar labor, so the american public in general is pushing jobs to mexico, as well as any other place that has lower labor costs. companies are only moving to mexico because we the people are begging them to do it. and we are begging them by exersizing the practice of going for the cheaper items as often as possible - america just loves a bargain.
a $30 an hour union auto worker with no education or skilled trade at all might be willing to pay high dollar to the local small businesses and avoid the big chains and discount stores like walmart and all its counterparts (although most do not), but the average joe that brings in a combined income between him and his wife of $35K a year before daycare costs for the kid can't really afford to go anywhere but wally world anymore.
people keep slamming mexico because supposedly its jobs taken away from the US, but isn't the same true for any imported item, regardless of country? if you're against jobs going to mexico, and its because you're so pro american, then that means you are against all imported goods from the entire world, so you better go check yourself and step back a little, and you might just find that there is a little bit of hipocracy lingering around in the closet.
i'm not speaking of my own opinions here, but rather spewing out facts about the american people as a whole, in general....and most of this has already been mentioned but just backing it up...
the american public is tired of spending too much money for stuff that was created by high dollar labor, so the american public in general is pushing jobs to mexico, as well as any other place that has lower labor costs. companies are only moving to mexico because we the people are begging them to do it. and we are begging them by exersizing the practice of going for the cheaper items as often as possible - america just loves a bargain.
a $30 an hour union auto worker with no education or skilled trade at all might be willing to pay high dollar to the local small businesses and avoid the big chains and discount stores like walmart and all its counterparts (although most do not), but the average joe that brings in a combined income between him and his wife of $35K a year before daycare costs for the kid can't really afford to go anywhere but wally world anymore.
people keep slamming mexico because supposedly its jobs taken away from the US, but isn't the same true for any imported item, regardless of country? if you're against jobs going to mexico, and its because you're so pro american, then that means you are against all imported goods from the entire world, so you better go check yourself and step back a little, and you might just find that there is a little bit of hipocracy lingering around in the closet.
Thats what I've been wanting to say all along, just couldn't put it into words like you did, THANKS!
****note*** the 40 hours work week was invented by Henry Ford in 1904 , When he also started the first Manufacturing Assembly Plant making Model T's.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] The History Channel is a great thing![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
Labor Unions started back in the 30's when the Immigrant workers were being taken advantage of, and not treated very fairly(alot like todays Mexican immigrant workers), But now the Union themselves have turned into their own big business,and now you have the manufacturing companies with the Products and the Union with the Work force... Its a constant battle tug-and -pull over wages and production costs. What the Unions don't realize is they are Negotiating themselves right out of thier jobs!! The trend these big manufacture's are taking is to send assembly to 3rd world countries, to get around the Unions and the American lawyers. So I expect to see ALLOT more of these lay-offs of American Union workers[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif[/img] I feel terrible for the individual worker, but if your riding in a BIG BOAT and the captian hits an IceBerg, well the whole boat goes down.
Look on the bright side... After all of the Manufacturing goes to Mexico, we won't have to worry about the Illegals crossing the border.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img] Heck, they may try and keep us out[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]
Bigger.