I have a friend who is looking to build a DS motor. I was curious how ERBE's build was going before I recommend this Millenium route. Has anyone else tried this aluminum sleeve system?

 

How new is this system? If no one has run it for say, a year yet then you'll be somewhat of a gunea pig. If your friend has lots of money and time you can sometimes find the really good stuff first; but if he only wants to do it once I'd suggest going with something 'tried and true.' Personally I like the stuff that is 'known' to work; I was talking to 'The Punisher' a lot when he and Annihilater invested heavily in parts from Sam Coe - boy was that ever a money pit. A lot of good ideas, good people doing the actual install, but horrible design / implementation.

I don't believe this engine stuff is as easy as some people think it is. It is kinda like computers - I understand how they work very well so for me to do my job most of it seems almost elementary; however for others that don't have a full graps of how it all works together it becomes a mystery. Then you have the thousands of people who 'know a lot about computers' - I love these guys, they make me a lot of money because when they screw up, oh boy do they screw up.

I think building engines is the same kinda thing; there are people who 'know a lot about engines' and there are professionals who live and breathe this stuff and can really do it right.

 

I agree Blackhawk. It wasnt worth the money we dumped over and over to do the R&D on the kit at our expense and then get treated like crap by the builder, I wouldnt reffer anyone to anything that isnt proven SOLID then you will feel guilty if something goes wrong. I have stressed in the past how my sleeved jug worked great.. BUT It sure costed a whole lot more than the hpr 730 kit or bom kit in the long run. What Im tryin to say is that it cost a pretty penny to get that set up to be reliable and powerfull. .. Maybe this new millinium sleeve will work, I hope it does. But I like the one piece kits....jmo


ERBE has done a great job keeping everyone posted on his venture. I wish him the best. It might be great for a trail set up.

 

iron sleeves have been pressed into aluminum cylinder forever, with no problems, and no head sealing issues, without the use of "Magic" sealers and adhesives and o-rings. of all the problems the first year raptors had, none of them were head seal related. the companies that decided to start doing it to DS's and had problems, well that just plain sucks and it made a bad name for something that has been going on for decades, they just did not know enough about what they were doing.

now we got aluminum sleeves going into aluminum cylinders, and if the same lack of knowledge and experience is used in these setups then that would suck. BUT the Pami aluminum sleeve is tried and true by THEBOM, he's been running it for quite a while now, and running it hard.

Now Mellinium Tech, well this is a highly regarded and reputable company that backs its stuff with a great warranty unlike all the rest. I am hoping and also optomistic that they will prove well, but I too, like Blackhawk, would wait just a ilttle bit longer and see.

 

True that. I should have elaborated the fact that the sleeves just plain and simply NEED to be installed the proper way. If mellinium warranties it thats awsome.

 

Wouldn't it be great, if we had yet another reputable, reliable, good company step up and start working with DSs? Competition is great - the only thing it can bring us is better products. Sure it means more work for the current builders, but the end result is that everyone has to work that much harder for the customer dollar.

The DS crowd is very different from the Yamaha crowd; I think people who own DSs (generally speaking - we all know of a few very good Yamaha owners) are just more discerning consumers and think things through a bit more before jumping in.

I would love to see the day when a builder, who doesn't fully stand behind their work is the rareity and not the rule.

 

El gunea pig here! Nope havent had a chance to work on the DS with the kit yet, been so busy at work and having to work on the kids bikes, plus a hunnydo list from heck. But Ill be on soon as my front suspension is done.
Scooby also has the Aluminum 720 kit also, and Im sure he is putting it through the ringer in testing.
PS and Im also revamping my LT500 from top to bottom, trying to get parts for a 20 year old bike sucks.

 

I thought Scooby's was a standard material liner, but he may be working on second one now. There are NO reservations about the AL cylinder insert from Milliinnium. They support racers of all brands of all types (atv, mc, ski, snow); and ALL their cylinders are not only guaranteed, but LIFETIME guaranteed. Never heard that before anywhere on racers esp.

So Millinnium is in the bank (to me) and TheBom's is a high quality Pami alternative. And TheBom's can be relined the same as stock cylinders. The only unknown variable is can HPR's high quality AL cylinders be relined. There is no reason to doubt Millinnium can't reline it, but HPR indicates they don't believe in relining cylinders and haven't heard of HPR AL cylinder relined yet. Maybe Big Daddy's will be (?).

After researching head materials and duty cycles of double overhead cams, I may wait since 50k miles is a good period to verify head work. That would give me plenty of time to dial in carb combo (DS intake/450r carb/dual dialajet) and exhaust. Cruising around Aprillia Pegasus site, I may have found a dual exhaust/dual muffler alternative for about $644 plus oversea shipping which is not unreasonable at all considerig 2 cans. SS, 10 year warranty, and titanium removable inserts. The dual muffler may make removed inserts almost bearable on street, with final outlet tubes pointing toward ground.

A cylinder head brand new is $1100, but it is probably single exhaust. Except on existing F650's 2000 or earlier, these are the only dual exhaust heads until Bombardier switches back. BMW SuperMoto M1 is dual exhaust, so will find out what Bombardier does in Oct/06 but may be totally different high performance head (larger titanium valves/pockets/racing guide-seal materials).

 

I will have my non-sleeved 105.0mm millenium cylinder up and running in about a day. The LOWEST setting on boost is ~18psi and that's with a 9.4:1 piston on alcohol. I should know something soon. If there are issues then the aluminum sleeve would be the next step up in cost.

 

ERBE,

Who was your contact at Millenium? I will try to call this week....

Ron