polaris transmission is slipping
May 25, 2005 | 09:57 AM
#41
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polaris transmission is slipping
On the contrary, BryceGTX sounds like a shade-tree mechanic trying to project an image of an engineer.
And I must be the second dumbest person on the forum for arguing this obvious comparison of belt to hydro with this hardhead. Or that belts slipping NEVER happens. Telling me Honda didn't know what they were doing when they designed the Hondamatic. What a joke.
The Hondamatic is not a JD Hydrostatic, good thing or the Honda would weigh almost as much as the Deere.
The two speed sub tranny is a bad thing? He talks like there’s a problem with that (on the Honda). I can see if you had to switch it back and forth for anything but skidding logs or pulling maximum loads it would be a bad thing (like riding under 15 mph must be done in low??? This isn’t the case with every other brand belt drive).
Enough arguing with this brand bias wannabe engineer and his senseless ranting.
At least I can say I’ve driven belts so I can offer and educated evaluation.
Show me your reliability comparison Mr. Know-it-all, with the raw data for an unbiased evaluation. Put your hearsay data where your mouth is.
And I must be the second dumbest person on the forum for arguing this obvious comparison of belt to hydro with this hardhead. Or that belts slipping NEVER happens. Telling me Honda didn't know what they were doing when they designed the Hondamatic. What a joke.
The Hondamatic is not a JD Hydrostatic, good thing or the Honda would weigh almost as much as the Deere.
The two speed sub tranny is a bad thing? He talks like there’s a problem with that (on the Honda). I can see if you had to switch it back and forth for anything but skidding logs or pulling maximum loads it would be a bad thing (like riding under 15 mph must be done in low??? This isn’t the case with every other brand belt drive).
Enough arguing with this brand bias wannabe engineer and his senseless ranting.
At least I can say I’ve driven belts so I can offer and educated evaluation.
Show me your reliability comparison Mr. Know-it-all, with the raw data for an unbiased evaluation. Put your hearsay data where your mouth is.
May 25, 2005 | 01:14 PM
#42
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polaris transmission is slipping
First: LOL, smart choice!!
Second: You do not know our John Deere. But quite frankly, the only thing you need to do to keep any hydrostatic drive from creeping is to put the pump swash plate at center. It sound like your Craftsman just needs to be adjusted.
Third: It is clear you do not understand the hondamatic. The reason it requires a sub-transmission with reverse is because the design is not capable of going in reverse because the adjustable swash plate is on the motor; not the pump. This is part of my discussion. That is if they put an additional swash plate on the pump, they could not only get reverse, but they could also get a neutral and get high hydraulic leverage to get rid of low range in the sub-transmission. One trivial way to create a hydrostatic trans with no creep is to close a loop on the pump swash plate with the differential pressure from the two ports of the pump.
Fourth: Judging by "Third" you are in no position to school me!!
And last but not least: We are discussing concepts, this requires no one to drive anything. LOL, you guys are so protective of the hondamatic... As bad as you suggest that I am about belt drives!!!
BryceGTX
Second: You do not know our John Deere. But quite frankly, the only thing you need to do to keep any hydrostatic drive from creeping is to put the pump swash plate at center. It sound like your Craftsman just needs to be adjusted.
Third: It is clear you do not understand the hondamatic. The reason it requires a sub-transmission with reverse is because the design is not capable of going in reverse because the adjustable swash plate is on the motor; not the pump. This is part of my discussion. That is if they put an additional swash plate on the pump, they could not only get reverse, but they could also get a neutral and get high hydraulic leverage to get rid of low range in the sub-transmission. One trivial way to create a hydrostatic trans with no creep is to close a loop on the pump swash plate with the differential pressure from the two ports of the pump.
Fourth: Judging by "Third" you are in no position to school me!!
And last but not least: We are discussing concepts, this requires no one to drive anything. LOL, you guys are so protective of the hondamatic... As bad as you suggest that I am about belt drives!!!
BryceGTX
May 25, 2005 | 01:31 PM
#43
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polaris transmission is slipping
Hey propnut. It is always a treat to have a discussion with you. LOL, you can't even fathom that there is a better way to build the hondamatic. Maybe you got somehow lost in the last few posts, but our current discussion is what would make the hondamatic better. My point of discussion is add a swash plate to the pump and get rid of the sub-transmission. LOL, you are still trying to convince me about how great the hondamatic is. Come on propnut... catch up to us.
I like your view of the John Deere. Any moron can tell the difference between the John Deere tractor and a quad. Now what is more revealing is the similarities, particularly in the hydrostatics. Once you understand the similarities, you will be better equipped to understand the differences.
BryceGTX
I like your view of the John Deere. Any moron can tell the difference between the John Deere tractor and a quad. Now what is more revealing is the similarities, particularly in the hydrostatics. Once you understand the similarities, you will be better equipped to understand the differences.
BryceGTX
May 25, 2005 | 01:44 PM
#44
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polaris transmission is slipping
We are discussing concepts, this requires no one to drive anything.
The difference is I've driven it, you dream (conceptualize if you wish) about it.
Let's have Honda redesign it (for you) to more resemble a lawn tractor. Constant engine RPM and variable swashplate for speed changes. That makes sense on a quad. Hopefully you don't bump the forward reverse lever during a precarious move while you are operating it with the one hand you have left to steer. Heck, maybe they can make a transmission that steers the quad for you too. Now I understand your reasoning.
May 25, 2005 | 06:09 PM
#45
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polaris transmission is slipping
Let's have Honda redesign it (for you) to more resemble a lawn tractor. Constant engine RPM and variable swashplate for speed changes. That makes sense on a quad. Hopefully you don't bump the forward reverse lever during a precarious move while you are operating it with the one hand you have left to steer. Heck, maybe they can make a transmission that steers the quad for you too. Now I understand your reasoning.
LMAO...
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BryceGTX
Jul 18, 2005 | 07:26 PM
#46
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polaris transmission is slipping
hey i have had that problomb with my scrambler also. I don't no what the deal is because somtimes it does it and somtimes it doesnt. Om almost startin to get sick of it because of all the littles probs om havin. The little things cost $$$$$$$$
Jul 19, 2005 | 06:39 PM
#47
Trailblazer
Joined: Dec 2004
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polaris transmission is slipping
The reason I bought my belt drive quad is so that I can work on it. If something fails in the tranny on a hondamatic I would be hooped. But on my yamaha if something goes I can at least work on it. Nobody has a perfect system out there. One way is better than another.
Jul 21, 2005 | 03:42 PM
#48
Trailblazer
Joined: Jun 2005
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polaris transmission is slipping
Originally posted by: propnut
Delta Boy, this is just my opinion and I'm not looking for a fight. So take it or leave it.
I am not talking about any other quad feature (don't want to get into that argument), but the Hondamatic is, without a doubt, far superior in design, performance, maintenance, and reliability to every belt drive out there. For me, the electric feeling Hondamatic makes up for any so called "industry leading" technology that I don't have. The Hondamatic is without rival in any of the areas I pointed out, and I have yet to be left in a situation that I can't handle as well as any of these "technologically superior" machines. I understand my machine has shortcomings and accept them, but the engine and drive belt were not two shortcomings I was willing to deal with.
What a7203 is experiencing is common with the machine he has. He has probably damaged the belt and will need to service it, and while you're at it look for the leak.
You will find many one or two year old belt drive ATV owners that feel the old problems were fixed and state how reliable their belt drives are, but how can you judge long term reliability on a two year old quad? You can't. Only time will tell and I didn't have the time. However, any time you can smoke a new belt on a new machine simply by driving too slow in high range shows the technology isn't that modern, industry leading, convenient, or fitting for the application.
Delta Boy, this is just my opinion and I'm not looking for a fight. So take it or leave it.
I am not talking about any other quad feature (don't want to get into that argument), but the Hondamatic is, without a doubt, far superior in design, performance, maintenance, and reliability to every belt drive out there. For me, the electric feeling Hondamatic makes up for any so called "industry leading" technology that I don't have. The Hondamatic is without rival in any of the areas I pointed out, and I have yet to be left in a situation that I can't handle as well as any of these "technologically superior" machines. I understand my machine has shortcomings and accept them, but the engine and drive belt were not two shortcomings I was willing to deal with.
What a7203 is experiencing is common with the machine he has. He has probably damaged the belt and will need to service it, and while you're at it look for the leak.
You will find many one or two year old belt drive ATV owners that feel the old problems were fixed and state how reliable their belt drives are, but how can you judge long term reliability on a two year old quad? You can't. Only time will tell and I didn't have the time. However, any time you can smoke a new belt on a new machine simply by driving too slow in high range shows the technology isn't that modern, industry leading, convenient, or fitting for the application.
And weren't all the other brands slamming Pol's4 wheel independant suspension and low and behold they have it now to.
Oh yeah, then there was the poor belt design,well Honda is the only manufacturer not to go to a belt drive system,(But they will) soon enough ,why else would the rest do it if it's such a poor design.
What will you do then ?
Jul 25, 2005 | 11:42 AM
#49
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polaris transmission is slipping
If something fails in the tranny on a hondamatic I would be hooped
What about the fact that your quad doesn't have low gear,
Oh yeah, then there was the poor belt design,well Honda is the only manufacturer not to go to a belt drive system,(But they will) soon enough ,why else would the rest do it if it's such a poor design.
I never meant this to get so out of hand - I was just adressing ONE person's direct question about the Hondamatic. But comparing a belt to a hydro is like me saying my SRA articulates like an indy. It doesn't so I leave it alone. Leave it.
Jul 25, 2005 | 01:56 PM
#50
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Joined: Jun 2005
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polaris transmission is slipping
Originally posted by: propnut
not arguing that! but I've owned well over 30 bikes over the years and experience/history has shown a Honda tranny failure is unlikely. Reliability AND performance overtook my need to be able to rebuild it personally. Honda has covered most of the anomalies I've heard about with transmission failures due to part failure or manufacturing issues.
Is that a fact? NOT.
No they won't, and not "slamming" the design. But by comparision.........
I never meant this to get so out of hand - I was just adressing ONE person's direct question about the Hondamatic. But comparing a belt to a hydro is like me saying my SRA articulates like an indy. It doesn't so I leave it alone. Leave it.
If something fails in the tranny on a hondamatic I would be hooped
What about the fact that your quad doesn't have low gear,
Oh yeah, then there was the poor belt design,well Honda is the only manufacturer not to go to a belt drive system,(But they will) soon enough ,why else would the rest do it if it's such a poor design.
I never meant this to get so out of hand - I was just adressing ONE person's direct question about the Hondamatic. But comparing a belt to a hydro is like me saying my SRA articulates like an indy. It doesn't so I leave it alone. Leave it.
Wasn't trying to offend but the old Polaris builds crap story just gets old.
Me and my buddies practically all ride different colors and have fun together. That's what counts.
I think they all build a decent machine.